Hello everyone,

I've been looking through some of the posts here and I think you guys might shed some light into my situation.

I recently purchased a new system with the following components:
MSI 648 Max mobo
Pentium 4 2.53GHz with 533MHz bus
256Mb DDR400 ram
40 Gb 7200rpm Maxtor HD (non-formatted)
ProAtlantis ATI Radeon9700 Pro
350 watt power supply

After opening the package, I let it sit for a while then connected it all up and it booted up like a champ. Everything seemed to be running fine. I checked the BIOS and it had already been updated with most recent version which was just one month old. I then partitioned(fdisk)/formatted the HD to get it ready for installation of my software, booted it up and that ran smooth. Shut off the system completely, I installed my DVD drive (configured to Secondary Master) from my previous PC, booted it up with a boot disk, and it recognized the new drive. I then initiated the OS(WinXP) installation and while it was doing its own thing and being confident on the overall success thus far, I went upstairs and ate dinner.

One to two hours later, I checked up on it to see how far into the installation it had gone and it was frozen. No big deal, that happens from time to time. I pressed the 'reset' button it and it gave me a bootup error. Hmmm, I thought, obviously OS installation hadn't gone as far as I would've liked, no problem. I pressed the 'reset' button again and on the third time nothing came on the screen. (Didn't even POST). I shut it off completely, waited a few seconds, turned it back on. The system comes on (i.e. DVD drive, front panel light, PS, all the fans (CPU fan, both case fans, and even the video card fan) is all working) but it just won't post anything. I noticed it's not even beeping when it first comes on the way it used to.

Other things I have done:
-I opened the case went through all the cables making sure everything was secure. Result: No post.
-I tried connecting my monitor to another old PC (to prove myself that it was not blown) and the monitor worked fine. Connected it back to the new PC. Result: No post.
-I tried removing the new video card and replacing it with an older PCI based video card. Result: No post.
-I then tried connecting the supplied D-bracket (USB/troubleshooting) to the system to see where it's was going wrong and all the lights stayed ON which points all fingers to the processor. :( Result: No post.

I currently have parts being shipped out to me now. I'm just trying to understand where the problem came from to avoid it in the future. Could this have been due to a heating problem? Is the default Intel heatsink/fan not reliable to cool down a system with a standard steel case?


What puzzles me the most is that it was running fine and after I reset it a third time is when it failed to POST??

Anyway, in the meantime, I was thinking of removing all the cables/devices and reconnecting it one by one to see if it would spark something?

Sorry for the long post. Does anyone else have any ideas what could have been or what could be the problem.

TIA for the info.

Hi there Ridz
Until someone else comes a long I would suggest you go back to the begining.
First check that all hardware and memory is inserted correctly.
(you could have nudged something loose when you installed the cd-drive and the vibration could have loosened it properly.)

Use a WIn98 boot floppy to boot with. At the A;\ prompt type FDISK and then delete then reset annd format the primary partition. You can at this time partition the disk if you want. Now go ahead and try installing windows again.

Um, it won't boot. He can't get to a DOS prompt or any other prompt for that matter. :(

I'm going out on a limb here and say it's either a bad processor or bad RAM. Although, I tend to lean toward the bad processor theory.

And yes, overheating could have been the culprit. Although P4s are supposed to scale back when they get overheated, there is a limit, and if it gets even too hot for that, then bye bye processor.

It could also be a flaky power supply. These problems are so damn hard to troublshoot, especially if a person is not present when things go wrong.

When you install the new parts, make sure you use thermal paste on the processor, ASIII is a good one, and make sure the heatsink is on properly and making good contact with the CPU core. Check the bottom of the heatsink for flatness. I use a small metal ruler for this purpose.

If after it boots up successfully, immediately go into BIOS setup and check the PC Health section. Watch the CPU temp specifically to make sure it's going to stabilize at a decent temperature.

Good luck.

EDIT: If your old PC takes the same kind of RAM, try the RAM in it to test it.

Thanks for the tips guys I think I'll first try:

Removing all the cables/devices and reconnecting it one by one to see if will start posting again.

I think that the power supply might be flaky also but they were sending me an upgraded one anyway which I'll try second. Along with a replacement processor and motherboard which I'll try third and lastly.

I also know that they're sending me another heatsink and fan and the default Intel heatsinks come with a thin layer of thermal compound already on it. Is that default stuff really not that good? I wouldn't suspect it to be, I guess.
Should I go ahead and completely remove that from the heatsink before applying that thermal paste to the processor?

Thanks for the ruler tip, big blue. That's a real neat idea!!

Unfortunately, my old RAM is not compatible with this new system. If it was the RAM, wouldn't there be 3 long beeps on bootup or is that not the case anymore with these new systems?

Thanks again.

that same thing sorta happened to me (see Boot Problem! please help) I just switched some HDD jumpers (master/slave) and now it wont boot. I smelled something burning (do CPU's have a burning smell when they fry?) Let me know what you find out. I'm running a MSI K7T 266a Pro2 w/AMD Athalon 1.33GHz.

What timing...lol....see your post. :D I'll get back to you when I get the parts in. :)

I didn't smell anything burning on mine (although mine was sitting for awhile before I came back to it) nor do I smell any burnt residue now. Have you tried homing in on the burnt smell whether it came from the processor or the power supply.....or even the monitor???

I think it is safe to say that a burning smell coming from anywhere inside your computer is not a good sign.:eek: :D

That said, the CPU, the power supply, the RAM, the mobo or any number of other things could produce a burning smell if they are overheated enough.

Budfred

Let me guess you don't even get a keyboard/mouse signal right? A similar problem happened to me, I bought a New CPU, PSU, MOBO and swapped out the VGA and it still won't work. I think it maybe my HDD. My other computer is able to read the HDD as a slave but won't reconize it as master, it won't even post boot disk failure. I'm going to reformat the thing and hope it works.

yeah, I get no beeps no anything...my monitor led is in standby mode (orange light instead of green)..I'm not sure if it's the HD, because I have two of them and neither work, also I disconnected them and it sill will not do anything. The fans are the only things that run (whoopie!)

Well I can hear my hdd spin up but then I see the cd rom spin up. It just keeps switching back and forth. A friend tested my ram he said it worked. I know the vga works because I'm now using it on this computer. I bought an MSI board and according to it, it’s the hard drive controller. I've about had it with it. Before it would restart itself, crash in safe mode, reassign random MAC addresses. I need help because probably going to become a $2000 magazine holder.

turbinedriven, Welcome to PCGuide!!

Before you turn your PC into a magazine rack, you may be able to replace the motherboard and get it to work or at least use other components. For the hard drive, I would urge you to download the maker's utilities to check the hard drive and to eventually do a low level format on it if you move it to anther computer.

Budfred

I've gone though three differnet motherboards with the same result. I'm going to try a low level format. Last time I did a low level format it took 10 hours.:( A tried the utility thing already and it said the drive was okay.

Hey guys,

I got my parts in. I didn't touch the new CPU and mobo. All I did was replace the 320w PS with the new 430w PS and everything started posting again. I learned my lesson for the day, just because power is being fed to the motherboard and the fans are running, doesn't necessarily mean it's being fed to the CPU also. Rmill9681, I'd first recheck that cable that connects from the power supply directly to the CPU portion of the mobo. If you rechecked that one thousands of times already also then I'd really consider the PS and see if you can RMA yours for something better. I recently read an interesting article on power supplies (http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/02q4/021021/index.html) that really opened my eyes. Although manufacturers rate power supplies to be 350w or 400w, don't expect it from the cheaper brands.

Turbodriven, I think you may have a different problem than rmill9681 and I were having. Perhaps I'm not understanding your problem, what do you mean by "still won't work"? As far as hard drives not working, you can boot up with absoloutely no HD installed and it should still POST. You won't get very far but the system should give you its basic information. Are you getting any words at the beginning of a boot when you turn it on or are you just getting fans running and a blank screen like we were getting?


Now....for the new heatsink project... ;)

rizd999: To answer your question about the TIM that comes installed on the Intel retail heatsink, yes, remove it completely if you plan to use Arctic Silver or similar.

Gently scrape what you can off with an old credit card or similar. Then, if you can find it, Goof Off works extremely well in getting the old junk off. I buy mine at Walmart. I can't remember where you said you were from as I post this, so if you can't get the Goof Off, use some 91%-99% isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) to clean up the rest of the TIM before you use ASIII. Arctic Silver's website has in depth instructions on how to apply it.

Good luck.

Glad you got your problem sorted out. I see this more times than I can count. People use off brand, generic power supplies when they should spend more money and get a quality unit.

Hey thanks Rizd999, I'll check out my PSU. Anyone know how to check it w/a voltmeter? I have a generic 300W PSU. It was running 2HDD, a CDRW, the mobo/CPU, floppy drive, snd crd, vid crd. I always thought I needed more power, but never had a problem.

I get nothing. No VGA/keyboard/mouse signals. I hear the HDD/cd rom spin up but nothing else. No beeps or clicks just power to the HDD, fans, and CD. I know the monitor/keyboard/mouse work because I thought I may have shorted then so I installed the living room computer hear and all components the components work.

I thought it was the PSU so I bought an antec true 380 and nothing, so I then thought it maybe a heating problem so I bought a new heat sink. It's a cooler master SP5-6G31C rated for a 2200+, still nothing. I then thought it maybe the motherboard at first I bought a new Giga-byte, then a MSI. Nothing. I then said maybe the motherboard doesn't work because the CPU is fired, so I bought a new CPU, still nothing. Then I went to ram. I had a friend check the ram in his machine, he said it worked and even flashed it for me just incase. Nothing.

In-between in time I installed new cables, tired every possible way it get it to start. No HDD, NO CD, just VGA, CPU, RAM and still nothing. I erased the HDD. Installed new partitions, wrote zeros on it, nothing. I even tired new sockets.

turbinedriven,

That sounds quite odd. Here is one option to see if you can sort this out. The procedure often recommended here is to take the mobo out, put it on cardboard or other nonconductive material. Leave in the CPU, one stick of RAM, the video card, the keyboard, the mouse and the power supply, then turn it on. If it POSTs, add one component and keep adding until it fails. The component it fails on is the culprit. In this case that probably means the case is a suspect...

If it doesn't POST, then you know it is one of the connected pieces and since most have been cleared already, you can hopefully narrow it down to the actual villain.;)

Budfred

turbinedriven,

First you should have a thread of your own for this.

Let's see if I have this right:

You have us assuming your keys, mouse and monitor have been verified on another pc.

Then we're led to assume a new PSU/ heatsink/ motherboard/ CPU have been put in with RAM being checked out and verified.

You tried booting while the HDD and CD's were not connected, just VGA, CPU and RAM. (PSU too i assume) and nothing.

Then you wiped your HDD. On another pc? And why if it was not connected it would have nothing to do with the boot problem.

You mentioned "swapping out VGA". I assume a VGA card? Or do you have onboard video?

You literally have replaced EVERYTHING except the case and CDROM (the latter of which wasn't connected so couldn't have interfered).. It looks as if operator error is the culprit.

WHAT is your HDD? WHAT is your VGA card? I would suggest a new thread with your system specs plus symptoms. Then all the other grab-bag items listed seperately if we are to get to the bottom of this.

Breathe deeply, calm yourself down and troubleshoot methodically, one step at a time. :)

Try hitting the delete key while attempting to boot. Does it get you to BIOS?

EDIT: Is there power at the outlet you have your pc connected to???

Exactly what Frus and Budfred said. One component even slightly dislodged may render a non posting pc. Yesterday after installing my new heatsink, (Those instructions from Arctic Silver was awesome, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, BigBlue!) my PC stopped posting again. Frustrated, I removed all the HD cables and as I was removing the modem card, I found it came out too easily. So with just the power, video, k/b and mouse, I decided to boot up one last time before taking it completely apart again....low and behold, started posting again. :rolleyes:

This has been one big learning experience for me. I mean I've already built PC's for my friends and myself before (like in the pre Gigahertz era, maybe a 1.5 GHz) but I never remember systems being so finicky as they are now. If a card was disloged, it simply wouldn't work. I don't ever remember not letting the PC POST cause of it!! :mad:

Anyway, as for my situation, my Alpha heatsink is already on, temperature are usually steady at 22C/77F in the BIOS. System seems to be running fine now (albeit needing to try that modem card again which I'll try after system is running flawlessly). OS is partially on. Too tired last night to tweak it. As far as testing for stability, I heard Winbench or 3dMark is the software of choice. What do you guys do once your system is pretty much finished? Do you run stability tests on it also?


Anyway, I appreciate all the help you guys have been giving me throughout this experience. This is a really cool site!!! Thanks. :cool: :cool: :cool:

Actually I have found one of the best torture tests for a new build......load Windows. If it makes it through that then things should be ok. But I usually run something (3dmark is one of my favorites) to use as guide to see how my tweaking is coming along.

hey riz, it was my psu...borrowed one and it started up like nothing was ever wrong.

Oops!!

Originally posted by rmill9681
hey riz, it was my psu...borrowed one and it started up like nothing was ever wrong.

:) Cool!! I'm glad you were able to isolate your problem! :cool: I guess we both know that big labels with "350w" doesn't mean a thing (to an extent). ;) Good luck with your next purchase!!

As for me, I'm having stability issues running 3dMark2001 now. A single test runs fine. However, running a loop test 1.5 to 2 hours hangs the system. I definitely have it isolated to the 6178 ATI drivers as this type of lockup hadn't occured with the 6166 drivers. The 6178 is much more stable and so much better performance-wise though. I still have a few ideas and a few tests to try with it before raising the issue (or trying the 6193 beta drivers) though..... Ahhh, pc-building, the thousand dollar guessing game that never ends. ;):D