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jante_oh
06-13-2001, 07:47 PM
Hope someone can give me an expert opinion on this one:

A friend of mine recently gave me a computer 2 or 3 years old (Celeron 400, 32 Megs of RAM with functional video, sound and modem cards—built for her by another friend) that was giving her such trouble that she (a total neophyte) scrapped it for a new one and wanted nothing more to do with it. I took it because I thought, heck, I’m not afraid to open the box, and I can replace memory and easy stuff like that, even installed a hard drive once, so maybe I’ll be able to get it to come back to life and have a nearly free computer http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

Guess I should have known, nothing is ever free. Anyway, here’s the story of my struggles with this machine, which has become quite the little thorn in my side, due to curiosity, mostly.

First of all, my friend claimed that it would not boot, no matter what, and that she had tried on numerous occasions to no avail. It was dead, she said. Well, I opened up the box and made sure everything was connected securely, and then I tried to get it to boot. Nothing. The fans would come on, and the hard drive sounded like it was spinning up, but no video and no post. I kept trying, though, and eventually, on the 25th or so try, voila! it booted. I got one beep on post, and having read that that might indicate a memory problem in an Award Bios, I replaced the memory. Now it has 64 megs of ram.

But the system would freeze after only an hour or two of working. I could only get it to boot up about every 4th or 5th time, but when it did boot, I wiped the hard drive, which was a mess, and reinstalled windows, then I reset the cpu to 366 mhz. That seemed to help (though it might not have), because it didn’t crash for several hours. I also got no more beep on post for the next few posts. I installed other software. It was fine for several hours again. And then it froze again. And then again and again. It basically won’t work for more than an hour at a time now. But it does boot up about 3 times out of 5 when you turn it on, now. Once it just shut off completely and restarted itself out of the blue, and once the screen went blank with nothing but a cursor, but most of the time, it just plain freezes and neither control alt+alt+del nor the reset button will not reset it. It has to be turned off on the back of the machine.

I figured, hey, it must be the power supply. So I bought a new one and put it in. No change. Fans ran and no boot. Then, boot but freeze. I took the power supply back, though I probably shouldn’t have, because I think it could be a combination of problems. Of course it could also be a bad motherboard, right? I looked at the motherboard and did not see any obvious damage, though. And resetting the cpu did seem to help, though that might just be a coincidence.

Anyway, do you think I am looking at replacing the cpu? Or am I more likely looking at an altogether bad motherboard? I think I could swing replacing the cpu, but otherwise, I guess I’d be looking at scavenging the components and putting them in another system, which I’m not sure I want to bother with, except for the new memory. Not sure what to do next. Any advice would be appreciated.

mjc
06-13-2001, 08:26 PM
Sounds like it could possibly a heat related problem.

Is the CPU fan working properly, spinning with no signs of slowing down?

Is the heatsink firmly attached, centered, with removal for the machine, are there any visible gaps between it and the CPU?

Also going into BIOS and resetting the default values, setting the drives to autodetect, and making sure the memory timings are correct for the memory installed...in other words go back to a basic setup, has been known to cure many problems.

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

jante_oh
06-13-2001, 09:17 PM
Thanks for the reply.

The cpu fan seems to be working fine. As a matter of fact seems about the only thing that is. The heat sink is where it should be as far as I can tell. I tried setting the BIOS back to default values (which, by the way, sets the processor speed to 266, so this processor may have been changed from an original one when the system was built??), but still had the same problems. Not sure why heat would cause it not to boot, unless processor is damaged? Also, this machine ran fine for the first year or so that my friend had it, and she, being barely able to use windows, was not likely to have messed with settings or hardware. So I'm guessing whatever is wrong developed over time or came about as a result of power damage or something.

BTW, today it turned itself off again. It always boots back up when it does this. But scandisk would not finish running, but froze at 47%. This turning on and off really struck me as a power supply issue but, as I say, I replaced that and still had many of the same issues.

mjc
06-13-2001, 09:41 PM
Try running it with the case open and a small fan blowing into it, that will let you know for sure if it is heat....


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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

jante_oh
06-13-2001, 10:07 PM
Have been running it with the case open quite a lot anyway. Have watched the fan carefully.

Placed a fan blowing into it, and it still freezes. To be more specific, it would not boot until the 4th attempt and then it froze after windows 98 loaded.

mjc
06-13-2001, 10:25 PM
Start pulling everything that isn't absolutely needed to boot, basically leave video card, memory, and maybe HD (if you want to run in Windows or does it lock up in the BIOS setup too?)....if it runs stamle then add the cards, other devices back in on at atime letting it run for a while between each addition.

Also do you know anything about the MOBO (make, model)?

Are you sure it can support the installed processor?

Do you have the option to disable the L2 cache?




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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

tjaymadison
06-14-2001, 02:29 AM
So far I count three different CPU speeds mentioned.
What are the actual markings on the processor itself?

You need to know this to determine if the multiplier jumper is set correctly.
The original builder may have overclocked to get the CPU to run at 400.

400 = 66.6 * 6 , 366 = 66.6 * 5.5 , 266 = 66.6 * 4

If this CPU is truly a 266MHz Celeron, it would have to be
overclocked by 50% to reach 400, and by 37.5% to reach 366.
Overclocking by either amount can cause many instability problems.



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"I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage, mathematician, computer pioneer, analytical engine designer (1791-1871)
-- (Question: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?')

"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand."
-- Homer Simpson

BigBlue66
06-14-2001, 10:15 AM
Hey,

I agree with TJAY about the possible overclocking. It could be that the CPU is fatigued, worn out, tired and about ready to die.

If at all possible, I would borrow a known good CPU that the motherboard will support and try it.

Good luck.

Big Blue 66


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Woe is me.

jante_oh
06-14-2001, 10:38 AM
Sorry about the confusion on the processor speed. This is definitely a 400mhz Celeron. That's what it says on the cpu. The BIOs default is 266. I had it set to 366 as an experiment only. It's back to 400 now.

The motherboard model no. is 6ABX2V. A search on that # brings up a lucky star slot 1. The cpu card says pga370, however. Is this a compatibility issue?

I've tried it w/o sound and modem cards. no change. I'll disable L2 cache and see what happens.

If nothing, I'll try it with a different processor, if you guys think that it is worth a shot. But what kind?

mjc
06-14-2001, 11:51 AM
Is the CPU attached to a card that is then inserted into a slot?

These are sometimes called slockets (slot to socket converters) and theyCAN be a cause of the problems you describe...you can try replacing it with a new one (usually under $15 from most places that carry CPUs and MOBOs) or use the actual processor configuration for the the MOBO (probably around $100 for a slot1 processor....)

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

jante_oh
06-14-2001, 02:19 PM
Yes! The cpu is on a pII cpu card that is sitting in the socket. I'll get a new one and see if that's it. I'll bet you're right :^) Sure hope so, because that sounds like an easy fix.

Thanks!

mjc
06-14-2001, 02:34 PM
The converters are a source of many problems and are an easy fix. The newer ones are somewhat better than the old ones but are not a perfect solution...just a cheaper one. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.