My parents were given an HP Vectra VL2 4/66e. In system it is listed as an 80486. It has 16 megs of RAM. I have not opened the case but have tried to 'surf' the net with it. I'm STILL waiting for a wave to 'surf' on :eek: ! It has a 28.8 modem and it was running at 38.*? last time I tried. Maybe a 250+/- meg HDD.

For any of you ole' timers and younguns too, what is the most I can expect to put in for RAM in one of these? Also can the processors be upped at all? What is the FSB?

If I can tweak it just a little, I may be able to get a Lite version of W98 on it or at least not have so many script errors along with the no pics and animations as it is set to now. I have some old SIMM RAM if it will fit but want to hear from you people first. Thanks.

Or does this ole' horse just need to be brought behind the barn and... well, replaced??? (If I can tweak it only a little, I may let them have my current spare and use the ((Heaven forbid!)) 486 for my emergency internet access to get, 'well', here.)

They don't use the pc enough to warrant a bigger, faster one yet and I'm still trying to perk their interest at least enough to start e-mailing our family a little and maybe some other uses too.

Thanks again and... Merry Christmas http://www.beenzeria.com/nuovismiles/classiche2/kerstsmiley.gif

I don’t recall the that exact model.
Put it isn’t that from the others I recall.

Your Looking at maybe 32,64 or at best 128 meg of ram.
Remove and replace is/was normal for the ram in those.

Your also not going to find a cpu upgrade for it.
Unless you find a used system to strip it out of.

Do yourself a Favor ,, Install win3.1 and surf away.
Win 9X anything is too much for it. Even stripped down install with 95 is taxing it.. ( that Line will draw a few comments I’m Sure)

You’ll need to check the M/B spec’s for the memory to use. EDO or ???

You could drop in a 56K modem .
I’d stay clear of the win modems however. And go with a good old fashion hardware modem.

If you can find a hardware modem. And if you do, it'll cost you. No new modem will work in a 486 either. If you just want them to do the e-mail thing, Circuit City has a 'MailStation' on sale for $49.95 after rebate. It, of course is with a sign up to Earthlink, but it's a cheap way to do e-mail (if that's all you need).

Up the Ram tp 64 MB

Check the serial ports to see the speed of UART if it's 16550 you are OK if its 8250 you will need an ISA serail port card.

Get an external serial port (not USB) modem.

Install WIN 95 and it will work as a spare to get on line when your main system is down and out....

It will be slow but it will work...

Doesn't the memory have to be put in in pairs (2x8 - 2x16 etc) on some of these old 486's? They have oon the couple that I have experienced.

Ernie,
Yes, most likely the old SIMM type RAM. I haven't opened it up yet and just wanted to toss out some feelers as to what to expect trying to upgrade it slightly.

I'm expecting 64 megs of RAM will be the maximum it can handle. I have 2 pair of SIMM RAM but they only total 24 megs so I think I'll have to pick up some (4) 16's or some other combination.

There's a modem already in it and if a reformat and reload of W95 doesn't improve it along with the new RAM, I will look into the external modem. There's a business near enough to me that has all sorts of used and abused older stuff kicking around. Basically you dig in a bin find what you're after and make them an offer.

The pc is giving all kinds of runtime errors and illegal operation popups and I think a format and reinstall will take care of that and the RAM should make the rest just a little smoother.

Check the serial ports to see the speed of UART if it's 16550 you are OK if its 8250 you will need an ISA serail port card.Classic,
I am not following your train of thought on this. Are you meaning the modem? Where do I look for this info? I'm imagining that the pc has only ISA slots.

http://www.circuitcity.com/IMAGE/product/thumb/etl/PC.ETL.MAIL150.RT.JPG
Thanks but no thanks. Their eyes would have a tough time with the 'squint' screen... :rolleyes: But the warning of incompatable newer modems in it well noted, thanks.

Well, after putting 128 megs of RAM in my sis's/neice's pc today and getting a WOW! NICE! from that, my folks are next in line. (Sis's only had 32 megs of pc100 trying to run Systemworks, 98SE, a firewall, Morpheus! and M$ Word plus some other stuff. That was an easy miracle to perform!!! :D Told neice to ditch Morpheus for Kazaa Lite, at least it will be the lesser of 2 evils...

HO HO HO helpers (gurus), Thanks and Merry Christmas! Gotta go, got some more giving to do... ;)

Edit: Hardware modem, how do I recognise them? I have an ISA one on my old IBM spare that has a large plastic thingy on it covering about a 3"x5" area (from memory). Is that one? And what are their advantages if they are no longer made? Freeing up memory?

I think all the ISA modems are hardware based and they are the only type that are likely to work in that machine. You can usually find them for a good price on eBay. I think I even have an old 33baud one I lying around and a lot of other people do too. Slow going, but ok for backup.

Budfred

Edit:

As I understand it, the advantage to a hardware modem (beyond the fact that it is probably the only option on that computer) is that they don't rely on CPU power to function and that allows the machine to run generally more efficiently. Since you don't have a lot of CPU power available on that machine by today's standards, you could use all you can get.

Budfred again

Actually get her to ditch KazaaLite, too and run WinMx....

And as far as ISA modems.....90%+++ are hardware (there are a few that aren't but most of them are/were from Compaq machines and the drivers may only work on a Compaq machine--though there are reports of varying degrees of success otherwise). Almost any external modem that is not USB is hardware, some PCI modems are hardware and there are varying degress of hardwareness in PCI modems...from the completely software things to almost completely hardware......(this is the number of modem functions that have dedicated hardware on the modem card as opposed to running some program to emulate those functions). USB modems can be either software or hardware.

For that 486...

Get the RAM up to 32mb, 64 would be a blast.

Install Win95 OSR2. Work you way through http://www.walbeehm.com/win95upd.html and install only what is necessary.

Script errors during browsing are probably due to a serious outdated version of IE (probably v.3?) I'd suggest you try Opera 6.05 as your browser, or Opera 5. It should run fine on that machine.

classicsoftware's comment about UARTs was intended (I think) to refer to external modems. If the COM ports on that machine use the older UART you'll have trouble using a modern external modem. It might work but you probably won't get throughput over 38400bps. A hardware internal modem will have an onboard UART. Even a fairly old 28800 internal modem uses the newer 16550 UART.

The secret to a machine like that is to match the software to the hardware. If you try to install software for which it was never designed, then it will crawl. Forget Win98, forget IE. Go with Win95b and then find a set of applications (browser, email, etc.) that work nice with low-end hardware.

Properly configured it'll work just fine.

Get to a DOS prompy and type MSD

go to the port section and the spped of the port will show as 16550 UART or 8250 UART. This will tell you the spped of the serial ports.

I would suggest you get the CNET 56k external fax modem if your system has 16550 UART.

Look here:

Click on this (http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?DPNo=990725&adcampaign=email,CNETSHOPPERPC)
Good luck;

I'm still using my 486-DX 100 as a print server....

Aw c'mon, you know what will really happen. The tears, the jeers, the hair-pulling, name-calling and general knashing-of-the-teeth......

Let it die, dunk it in cold water, give it to the enemy.....

Package it with fruit cake and ship promptly to relative....

The box will never run a modern browser properly, even if it you network it to a DSL hub......

Forget the modem jazz, unless you run '95 for email only.....
Win3.1 and IE3 or 4 won't open many pages.....

Just because it won't run the most recent version of IE, the one that makes Mr. Creosote look like a toothpick, doesn't mean it can't surf the Web....

With 95 it probably could run IE 5, Opera, Mozilla, Phoenix...

With 3.1 it could run Archnae (which is actually a DOS browser with many bells and whistles)

It could run a version of Linux and maybe even a stripped down Xserver so it could then run NS 4.7, Mozilla or several others....

If no Xwindows then it could run Lynx (a text based browser that is impervious to 99.99% of the known exploits.....)

It will run Opera 5 and maybe 6 just fine! (http://www.opera.com/support/search/supsearch.dml?index=386&session=ad228224eb18e233cdf58e518af24a08)

I can't really claim to know how a given DX66 with Opera or some versions (older) of netscape or Mozilla strains would work.

But whatever is the "guiding" advice in this thread is -- It isn't common sense....

The way HTML usage on the Web has been bastardized into JAVA,ASP,Flash etc, coupled with popups and graphics makes using any non-MMX or faster machine torture.

Throw in a modem-connection, non UDMA drives and a need to run "modern" virus protection and or firewall software.. oh well.....

On second thought yeah go-ahead you need to "learn"....

Without IE the need for some of that is greatly reduced. Running something Linux alos reduces the need for a lot of the extras. It isn't that a 486 will be the greatest, it is just becuase it isn't doesn't mean it is useless.

Originally posted by no-mbr
I can't really claim to know how a given DX66 with Opera or some versions (older) of netscape or Mozilla strains would work.

But whatever is the "guiding" advice in this thread is -- It isn't common sense....

The way HTML usage on the Web has been bastardized into JAVA,ASP,Flash etc, coupled with popups and graphics makes using any non-MMX or faster machine torture.

Throw in a modem-connection, non UDMA drives and a need to run "modern" virus protection and or firewall software.. oh well.....

On second thought yeah go-ahead you need to "learn"....

What nonsense.

Java is unnecessary for the vast majority of web browsing. And when it is commonly used -- for stuff like flashing buttons -- it is unnecessary. Don't install it on a 486.

ASP is a server-sided language that doesn't give a hoot what browser or platform you use. http://www.microsoft.com/default.asp loads fine here in Lynx, a text-mode browser. Same goes for PHP...

Flash is simply avoided by not installing the plugin. Any webmaster that uses it provides text/html links for people without Flash if he/she knows anything.

'Popups' are merely webpages called by javascript... why you mention them here is beyond me.

'Graphics'? Good grief, do you think 'graphics' were invented along with the P4? Ten years ago I authored multimedia CDs (video, audio, animation and photography) on a 486-66 with 16mb of RAM. In comparison the low-end graphics on the web today are nothing.

A UDMA drive is required to browse the web? He he. Good one.

Virus protection? Sure, for downloads. Run F-Prot for DOS when required (easily setup as a right-click option). And use a sensible email client that doesn't invite infection with every mail received.

Firewall? Avoid Internet Explorer and you remove 90% of the reason to have one.

You have totally confused performance as it relates to (a) hardware/software and (b) bandwidth. On a modem connection, a 486 with 32 or 64mb RAM, a good video card and carefully selected and configured software will be only marginally less efficient than a high-end machine for regular web browsing. That excludes Java, as stated above. For email there will be no discernable difference.

go-ahead you need to "learn"....

Isn't that what we're here for?

I got the impression, this was going to be used as a "first impression" box for the guy's parents.

I don't think it's good idea, and I said why.....

I've already performed the same service for friends, relatives and other "late adopters".....it's never pretty......

If you want to go on and play "tweak the 486", go ahead. Just don't expect your parents to be satisifed or most likely even able to operate the PC past a given "homepage" portal.

Again, most revealing comments by the "higher ups" in geekdom....

To quote from the original post by Fred:


(If I can tweak it only a little, I may let them have my current spare and use the ((Heaven forbid!)) 486 for my emergency internet access to get, 'well', here.)

Confused, Geez, I can't even read....

I would assume that a given user familiar with internet software browsers can indeed "surf" on a 486.

I have several 486s around, maybe I'll go visit the net again with an Opera browser.

...Or should I say 'Round two'? :eek:

While you guys have been uh, 'squabbling', I've done a little reading. HERE (http://members.tripod.com/mastodonpc/personal/D3115.html) and THERE (http://www.ox.compsoc.net/~swhite/timeline.html). The latter one being an intersting timeline of pc's with a little info on Linux and Apple as well. Just stuff I never knew of and handy to line it all up timewise like that. It helps me put things in a good perspective. But then, so does this site. :)

Well I'm not gonna pick sides but as slowww as that 66 is I can't seem to sleep thinking they have to surf with it. I will be letting them have my 200 AMD Aptiva (marginally better) and I will use the Vectra to play on/with. I have another pc in the makings anyway so the IBM will just be collecting dust,,, better to put it to a good cause...

I have D/Led the F-Prot for DOS antivirus but I have some questions as to running browsers other than what is on Windows platforms.

Do you remove Explorer? If so how?
I am presently stuck with W95B for my OS but might be able to find 3.1 if I tried. I'll either try Opera or Mozilla as the alternate browser. Which is easier to learn?
What about a mail program?

BTW 64 meg is the roof and it is 16550 UART speed. And I just tracked down the modem drivers so will be reformatting and upping RAM soon.

Thanks all.

Freedos 7 is still around and can be d/l free

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/


Also check these out
http://www.drdos.net/download.htm

and
http://www.drdos.com

One little side note.
Your time link has My oldest PC listed :>
June 1978 IBM PC ..
Only upgrades to it ware a 20meg Hdd, 640K of ram, and dos 3.3

BTW. it still works perfectly

Ahh, but what is perfect to a tortoise...
But another tortoise of course :D

Jabarnut...
If you're out there, better stay off the roads!!! We're headed to NH today for some holiday visiting. :eek:

http://teamtigereye.com/_borders/swerving_fool.jpg (http://teamtigereye.com/dealer.htm)

I know there are DOS browsers out there.
My Link for the one I had isn’t valid any more :(

With a Little work and a few extra d/l’s you can get that dx66 running at a speed you can live with and More importantly work with.

Here is Just one Graphics browser Link for dos.
I know there are others
http://arachne.browser.org/

Visit the Simtel web site or other such public domain/shareware site and add what ever other software you need.

http://www.simtel.com/pub/msdos

Wordprocessor, spread sheet, and Graphics editor .


If you stick with win9x
You can load and use any windows browser without removing IE
IE will just do what it does best. ( take Up Disk Space) and Not interfere with the other browser
If you run a search I’m sure you can find the Old IE-OFF program if you really want to rid your win9x system of IE

Hey Frus,

I was just trying to be the "funny man".... But when you start considering "buying" external modems and adding memory to beef-up the Vectra, it doesn't make any sense..but OK whatever...

FTT,

I have had as many as 3 different browsers running at the same time without any problem, so having 2 on one machine shouldn't even cause a hiccup. I would go with Opera for the machine you are talking about. It is small, fast and has all the bells and whistles if you want to use them.

Budfred

Hey, FTT, didn't see one of your original questions answered on the hardware side of things, so here it is if you still care to know. ;)

486DX - 33MHz speed, 33MHz fsb, obviously a 1x multiplier. 486DX2 - 66MHz, 33MHz fsb. 486DX4 - 100MHz, 33MHz fsb, a 3x multiplier even though it says "DX4". Can't remember why Intel did that...

In any case, if that Aptiva mobo isn't too proprietary, it should be theoretically possible to upgrade the DX2 to a DX4 (if you don't already have a DX4, I lost track). This would provide a slight speed boost if you can find one for cheap enough.

On another strange note, I've got a 1.3GB HD that I'm not using, if anyone would be interested. Fleeting thought...