I am unable to skip av and scanreg at startup after a cold close by hitting spacebar,I can no longer do this for some reason. The keyboard is not always detected at startup, and I have to unplug and replace it to get it to work. On boot up there is a message saying No keyboard is installed, but I have re-installed it several times.
Keyboard= Logitec internet K/B, on USB.
OS= win98.
Thank`s, Tomijon.

Reinstall the KB's software?
KB problems in Device Manager?
Bad KB?
Bad KB port on the MB?

I’m not sure of what’s going on in the background but:
This happens to me once in a while and when it displays “No keyboard present” I unplug the PS2 plug from its socket.
When I plug it back in the PC gives a single beep. I press/release “Reset” button and it boots just fine.

I’ve noticed that this happens after problems with shut down.
I wonder if it’s something to do with the BIOS Communicating with the small processor in the keyboard during hardware polling at the POST.
Perhaps the system resets something in the keyboard circuitry at proper shutdown.
If that isn’t done it cannot be properly initialised and configured at the next start-up?
Perhaps disconnecting and re-connecting achieves reset, the BIOS registers this and gives a beep in confirmation that all is now well?

This is all just guesswork, but it works every time for me.

I do not think there is anything amiss with the keyboard drivers or the registry settings.
Just leave all that alone.
Unplug, re-plug and reset is all you need to do.

I hope you are NOT plugging something into a PS-2 port while the system is ON. This is a NO NO that can damage the motherboard......

If there is a USB keyboard and NOT a PS2 you may get the no KB message at startup, but that should not affect the system the way you are saying. If it is USB KB with a USB to PS2 connector plugged into the PS2 KB port, it is acting as a PS2 KB and should NOT be hot swapped like a USB KB plugged directly into a USB port.

People keep saying this and I keep asking for an explanation of why this is so but I’ve never been given an explanation so far, just the assertion that it is so.

I’ve previously quoted what Microsoft said about Plug and Play and hot swapping in their book “Introducing Microsoft Windows 95”.

Here goes again [THE EMPHASIS IS ADDED BY ME]:
P122. “If a change occurs to the system configuration during operation, the hardware must be able to notify the operating system of the event so that the operating system can configure the new device. Additionally, applications must be able to respond to the configuration changes to take advantage of new devices and to cease calling devices that have been removed. Such DYNAMIC CONFIGURATION EVENTS might include the INSERTION of a PCMCIA card, THE ADDITION OR REMOVAL OF A PERIPHERAL such as a mouse, CD-ROM drive or printer, or a docking event for a notebook computer.”

P123. “Plug and Play…delivers the following:
A dynamic operating environment…
HOT-PLUGGING AND UNPLUGGING of Plug and Play devices on the fly.
Unified messaging mechanism for dynamically notifying other operating system components and applications about changes to the state of the system.”

It may be that the above is subtly misleading in that ONLY a PCMCIA card can be INSERTED and ONLY a notebook computer can be hot docked and perhaps ADDITION OR REMOVAL does not actually mean disconnection and reconnection.
However, it certainly seems as though they are trying to convince the reader of how easy it is to add and remove items of hardware.
And they also seem to be suggesting this can be done whilst the PC is switched on.

PS/2 ports may not fry the first/ tenth time but all it takes is one time not pulling it straight out/plugging in exactly straight and *poof* crispy port......they were designed long before PnP was a glimmer in someone's eye. It has to do with the way they are wired/grounded. When live, in certain cases a hot wire can connect to the port (physical connector) ground, resulting in a dead short, which with a keyboard will often blow a hidden fuse (some mobo it is replaceablebut on most it is not).

Hot swap is not necessarily a PnP feature....don't try and pull any PCI cards when powered on (almost all PCI cards are PnP).

I`ve lost the plot completly now. Is there any chance we can get back to the thread, as the problem persists. My keyboard is on a USB, sometimes it loads , but most times it wont.
Thank`s , Tomijon.

Ignore the keyboard message. It just means the PS2 keyboard slot is blank.

1) have you tried a different USB port?

2) Have you tried a different keyboard?

3) Have you tried this keyboard in a different computer?

4) Have you checked the connections? If your at the end of the cord, it may pulling out a little and you need to re-seat in order for it to work.

Please advise

I have tried the different test you advise, it seems the keyboard is ok.
One symptom which may give you a clue is, although the keys on the keyboard are not working the internet side of things are ie, fav`s, search and volume control/mute.
Thank`s, Tomijon.

If the special keys are working then you know at least the USB side of things are working. It could be the drivers, have you tried to reinstall the Logitech drivers?

I have re-installed the drivers. Now in device manager under human interface devices, two keyboards are featured one with a conflict symbol. Under keyboard tab is the Easy internet keyboard that I am using now. Both keyboards in the HID are called internet keyboard usb.
Should I remove the lot and just try re-installing the one?.Where have the other two come from?
Tomijon.
Ps, I just uninstalled the two k/bs in HID and the Keyboard packed in, Have unpluged and pluged back in, hope it`s not doing any damage.

1) Boot system.

2) Go to device manager and remove ALL keyboards.

3) Re-boot and allow system to re-detect and re-install keyboard.

4) Go to logitech web site and download latest drivers for keyboard

I'd do the removal from SAFEMODE...there might be some "ghost drivers" that will not show up unless you're in SM...;)

I removed all traces of keyboard including Logitec software. I couldn`t reboot in SM, the keyboard was not functioning for me to make the selection. When windows started it detected a usb device and searched for the drivers, I directed it to win98 cdrom as the keyboard uses win default drivers.It finished loading the device and repeated the process,loading another usb device.In device manager there are no conflicts but, there are two keyboards, HID-compliant keyboard and
standard 101/102 key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard.
Should I reload the Logitec software?
Thank`s, Tomijon.

If you've access now, I'd suggest looking at the Device Manager in SAFEMODE and see what's in there...There could be some "Ghosties" hanging around in there...

If the USB is working for your keyboard you could remove the standard in SAFEMODE.

Same problem, it allows me to choose f8 to get to the safe mode page but that`s it. It`s as though the keyboard is not being detected till very late in the boot up process, it worked fine once windows oppened.
Could this be rectified in setup. If so and I can get safe mode working, what should I be looking for in device manager(ghosties)?
It`s almost 2am,Will have another crack at it tomorrow.
Thank`s again, Tomijon.

In SAFEMODE there can be multiple instances of a device listed that won't show up in normal Windows. Sometimes if you re-load a driver the original driver or parts of it might still be hanging around...kinda like a "ghost."

These can in turn confuse Windows and cause problems.

You can also use msconfig to select rebooting in "Diagnostic Mode" and I believe this is essentially the same as Safe Mode so that you can check Device Manager and get rid of any ghosts.

Sorry, Budfred, using the Diagnostic Mode will be close, but not quite the same and the problem of the "regular" Windows not showing the duplicated/"ghost" drivers will still be there.

It may be helpful, and is probably worth a try.

But I would also enable the Startup Menu (it is under Advanced in msconfig).

I have restarted the system using diagnostic startup. One exclamation mark appeared on one of the HID devices, I removed it and that disabled the keyboard. I noticed in boot description that the 101/102 standard keyboard is featured and not the HID compliant keyboard. If I could change this and have the HID keyboard featured as the boot keyboard that would solve the problem, as the HID loads everytime now. If I remove the standard keyboard, plug and play want`s to install it whenever I boot up.?????????
Thank`s, Tomijon.

When you installed the drivers for the USB Keyboard in what sequence did you do this? In other words, did the directions require the installation of the drivers first...and then plug in the keyboard?

Or, Keyboard and then Drivers?

Most USB devices require the installation of the drivers first...

It is also important to shut down background tasks (i.e., Anti Virus, Firewall, etc.) before driver installation.

I did what it said in the manual," plug keyboard in ,boot up letting windows detect new hardware, and install windows default drivers".
Why is it detecting another keyboard as well as the HID one????
Thank`s, Tomijon.

The USB keyboard was not furnished with drivers?? They just instructed you to use the default Windows drivers for it??

If so, I would enter SAFEMODE and remove "all" keyboard devices, both the USB and the PS/2.

Reboot and let windows find the USB and install the default drivers as per the manual...

SAFEMODE>Device Manger>click on the (+)...highlight the devices and REMOVE.

Thank`s for the advice but, I am still unable to select safe mode as the keyboard dosn`t load till windows starts, although I can still hit f8???????
Tomijon.

I found that enable USB in MS DOS wasn`t checked in settings. I have now been able to select safemode and remove the keyboards in device manager. After re-booting and installing my USB keyboard with the ms drivers, it`s now working as it should. Windows is still detecting another keyboard, but as it isn`t conflicting with anything or causing any problems , I can live with that.
Thank`s for all your help, Tomijon.

I suspect this “two driver” situation is just as it should be.

Microsoft has devised a special arrangement for drivers.
Each is split into two parts.
1. Microsoft supply a generic “Mini-Driver” which links to:
2. [The manufacturer produces] the “Device Dependent Code” [the OEM driver] that controls the device.

Each different keyboard manufacturer only needs to produce driver code that caters for the functionality that is peculiar to their hardware.
It’s the last tiny link between the generic mini-driver and the BIOS code.

But I think this is not what you have here.
Probably there is a separate driver needed to control the USB aspects of the link to the keyboard.
Perhaps it’s rather like the driver for the IDE controller and the driver for the HDD?