Ok, so earlier I was trying to show a friend how to put in some memory I gave her for her machine. Trouble is, I pulled my stick out and put it back in to show her, but I think I didnt get it in just right. When I turned the machine on again, it went dead immediately. Later when I had time to look at it, I fiddled with my MB connections and got it to power up, but I got a nice little electrical burn smell and it shut down again. It's at the point now where it starts up and boots, and I can even use it in a limited capacity (Im typing this on it right now). The problem is it keeps rebooting randomly. It seems to do it more when Im trying to open a program or run something a little more labor intensive than just opening a web page. Im thinking that either I cooked my memory or my power supply but I dont know how to tell what component is toast. I switched slots on my memory and that didnt make a difference but all my fans and lights are running and like I said, unless I do something that requires a little extra power (either mem power or actual power, im not sure) it runs fine. Any input would be greatly appreciated

P4 2.4g on Soyo p4x400 Dragon lite with one stick 512Kingston and Nvidia Ti4200 128m video.

You could try using a pencil eraser to clean the contacts on the RAM, check out the RAM slot and possibly use the eraser there too and then (after making sure all the eraser rubber is gone), try the RAM again. Be very sure that it is seated well. If you have another stick of RAM that you can try, it would probably be a good idea to do so. I suspect that you damaged the RAM, although it is surprising that it is working at all if you did. You could also try running a RAM tester:

http://www.memtest86.com/
or
http://www.simmtester.com/PAGE/products/doc/docinfo.asp

If the stick of RAM is double sided (most likely for 512MB) then check and see if one of the sides is fried. You should be able to tell on boot up or in Windows - it will show 256MB of RAM. I only mention this because it happened to me, with a stick of Crucial, no less! :eek: No worries, tho, they replaced it no questions asked.

That's the good thing about RAM. The warranty is usually lifetime.

I was trying to show a friend how to put in some memory I gave her for her machine

I keep a few older motherboards and parts around for exactly this reason. I can use a dead board, fried RAM, CPU with broken pins etc to show people how and where, without ever touching a running machine.

The burnt smell worries me, you might want to take a closer look at RAM and slot with a magnifying glass, see if you see any burnt contacts or black spots fanning away from a small component, and check the board for Bad Capacitors (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25482) too.

We also could be looking in the wrong places, a burnt smell can come from almost anywhere since a direct short is a good possibility. You might also need to check the power supply, and video card.

The most reliable test method I know of is to plug in other known working parts. Remember: ONE THING AT A TIME. If you hook up a different power supply and it works, try your power supply on a known working system (test system is what I use, again NOT my main, working computer), see if you can recreate the problem that way. Then you know without a doubt...For testing you usually only have to boot long enough to see video, no need to boot into Windows and let it install drivers.

Thanks for the input guys. So far I have tried to clean the mem, and have checked the board for burnt stuff, and havent seen any blown capacitors or remotely black marks. I think at this point Im going to get a new mem stick today and hope thats it. Once thats done if it still craps out, I'll try the p/s.
Good suggestion on having spare stuff Im definitely paying the price for trying to show someone something lol... of course if you think about it, I probably should have shown her how to put the memory in the right way eh? Mostly I was hoping someone could throw a confirmation of my suspicion regarding the memory. But Im completely fried on this fact... How am I booting up and using the machine at all if it's got such a mem problem? Ive disabled all the auto reboot options in both system and Bios, but it still does it. Even unplugged my reset switch just to eliminate that possibility. So far as i can see, if I print something, or load a big game it fails. Tried to load up a game on POGO, and it failed when the room was opening, Black Hawk Down cues up but fails halfway into loading a game, yet I can still watch movies with Media player, and run other games (Hoyle table games) without too much problem. Very mind boggling indeed..... Again, thanks for the input, and if theres anymore ideas, keep em coming, im stumped

Not all broken components render your PC completely useless. Some problems attack system stability (like my "half stick" RAM problem), while others cause random reboots (like a PSU problem).

There's no tried and true method of determining every single problem that any computer on the planet could possibly have, so a lot of it is just educated guessing. Of course, a lot of us also do like Paleo Pete and have more than one system/parts lying around just for these kinds of testing purposes. ;) I've got some old (incomplete) Pentium systems, a PCI LAN card, a PCI IDE card, an AthlonXP 1800+, and a whole box full of cables & screws & stuff. I might be forgetting a couple things, but you get the idea. :D

As Pete mentioned, any time you smell something "burning", there is a good chance something is burned!

Did you check the Properties box of "My computer" (or during the boot up) to see if it actually does show 512MB of Ram as saphalline suggested?

The only thing I would add is if you are going to try another stick of Ram, let the computer case "air out" very well while you're at the store (If that's where you are headed)

Before plugging in a new stick, smell the inside if the case...especially the power supply and the memory slots-(if you can get your nose close enough!) :p
A burned component has a very acute smell that last quite a while....Inspect carefully.
No sense burning up another stick of Ram or something else if there is a component obviously burned that you missed in your first inspection.
Good luck!

Yeah, funny about these burning smells. Just the other day, I installed a floppy drive from another PC that was laying around and I could have sworn worked the last time I used it but after installing in a good working PC I have(in fact the one I have on now)once it was powered on I knew immediately that it was "toast" even if the scent was hardly like the edible variety.:)

hmmm well, just an update. I put in a brand new stick of 256m DDR 400 and had the exact same result. Random reboots under load. So I swapped that out for a kick butt PS.. 430 watter with dual fans figuring maybe i was a bit underpowered plus possible PS damage. Well, much to my insanity, Im still sitting here typing on this thing that still crashes under the exact same circumstances. So ruling out memory and Power Supply seems to be in effect, what do you think the next logical step would be, replacing my motherboard? Very frustrated, so please dont misinterpret my crankiness, you guys have all been very helpful, but I was really hoping it would be the Power Supply. Besides, how is it that if I cooked my MB Im still using the machine and it only crashes under load... any ideas? Anyone have any idea as to whether it could have glitched Windows XP or cooked my Hard Drive by chance? Just really hesitant to get a new MB and all the work that goes through that.

Oh yeah, and under the properties box of my system it does show up as 512m of mem :)

Did you check out the capacitors to make sure none are leaking or bulging?? They usually don't look like they exploded, just bulging or wet. Check the illustration in PaleoPete's link for details.

Other than that, the main other reason for random shutdowns is heat. You could try running a small desk fan blowing into the open case to see if it run more consistently. You could have done some damage to the hard drive, so you might want to download and run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics to make sure it is ok.

You may end up having to strip down to a barebones config and gradually add back item to see what happens. This kind of thing can be VERY tricky to diagnose...:rolleyes:

Hmmm...It sounds like you've checked most of the things I would associate with a supposedly fried component coupled with spontaneous reboots, I'm not sure where to go from here. On one hand, trying a different motherboard would be a good idea, on the other it's a fairly expensive step with only a maybe to go on...

Besides, how is it that if I cooked my MB Im still using the machine and it only crashes under load... any ideas?

As saphalline mentioned above, sometimes damaged components will not cause the computer to completely stop working, but will instead cause instability and therefore insanity...Sometimes instability and reboots are the hardest problems to troubleshoot.

Since you did notice a burnt smell, the RAM and power supply have both been ruled out, and you didn't find anything visibly toasted so we have to assume whatever was fried is still causing trouble and too small to be seen. Motherboard is a possibility and I'm wondering about video card. I've never seen a damaged video card cause reboot problems, but there's always a first time...Usually it either won't boot at all or will have display problems. I would think motherboard is more likely.

You might also check the system for things like spyware, which might be contributing but I don't think that's the root problem, it sounds more like hardware. Check mjc's Spyware Links (http://www.mjc1.com/spylinks.htm) and run Hijack This, post a log here and let us have a look. Again, I don't think that is the root of the problem, but it might be contributing. Adaware and Spybot both have good reputations too, but HJT can give a good listing of all running processes, which might be a big help. Don't try to fix anything until the folks here have a chance to take a look. Just save the log and post it here.

Will give a better update tomorrow... SUPERBOWL Just ended and im beat (great game though) As to some of the stuff mentioned though, Ive checked all capacitors with a flashlight on the motherboard, powersupply and even Video Card (Leadtek Winfast A280 Nvidia Ti4200 with VIVO) and they all look solid. Also, I routinely run a pretty exhaustive Spyware checker (spybot) plus Reghealer to keep my system clean as I can but will try to hit it again tomorrow. Have run a virus scan with no results, and as to the cooling potential problem, Ive got a fan on my Proc, Video card, 2 case fans and 2 Powersupply fans, plus my box temp is sitting around 73degreesF based on Case thermometer not Bios readings so with a total of 6 fans pushing air around I cant imagine its overheating. As far as my processes, the only ones I cant pinpoint the source of are: rundll32.exe, jusched.exe, lsass.exe, csrss.exe and smss.exe... thats based on my ctl-alt-del process list. The rest are know system items or Mcafee..... And I probably should clarify the random reboot. Ive left this thing on for hours with no problem, but the second my printer gets initialized (right after the printing started sound on a lexmark), or Once Java starts to run, or about halfway into a load screen on Blackhawk down (can get in the game and select single player and all, its once the load for a mission gets about halfway) Thats when my mon goes blank and reboot. It doesnt seem to just drop at anytime, like I said under load seems to do it.

GRRRRRRR Thanks for being a shoulder guys, Ive gotta get some zzzs for now cuz this has me burnt out, but Im gonna start pricing MB's tomorrow

If it only reboots under computational stress, then its probably the mobo but not for certain. More specifically, I think its either the power distribution circuitry (the majority of which is clustered around the CPU socket), or an overheating chipset (most likely ruled out based on your temps).

Again, these are just guesses, but I had a similar problem with a mobo. At first, it only rebooted under load, but it quickly deteriorated into being entirely unstable. It did this in a span of about 10 days, so it was pretty bad! Finally had to replace it, system works much better now. :D

Come to think of it... I still have that broken mobo lying around somewhere. I guess I'll keep it for demonstrations. :D

You might check out various diagnostic programs like PC Certify, PC Doctor, and ToolStar's ProTech Diagnostics. The first is available in a free version which you can download to a floppy but I believe the other two are only available for a fee. But if they're thorough enough it might be worth the investment.

The fact that everything was working great until the "Memory Mishap" (coupled with the "burning smell"), suggests to me that something (be it ever so small) got fried. (Possibly a circuit on the "printed" side of the board).

It would be one thing if you had the problem occasionally before your Ram "demonstration", but everything was running fine.
I think that rules out heat. (As long as all the fans are still running of course)
My humble opinion is the Motherboard (unfortunately) suffered some damage.
Possible closer inspection on the bottom of the motherboard may show some signs of "charring" that's not visible on top. (Again, maybe near the memory slots or the CPU.
I suppose it's remotely possible another piece of hardware became unstable- (Even if they check out OK in bios setup and device manager) but if it were me, I would be thinking Motherboard at this time.

Again, it's the "burning smell" that would bother me the most. I've rarely smelled that hideous Electrical burn smell without finding something truly burned....Or at least charred to the point of causing instability or malfunction. :(

Thanks again guys for the input. Just wanted to drop a note in here to let you all know that Im working on getting a new board and will update as to whether or not that solves it! (Please God oh please be the motherboard) Not that you would EVER expect to hear that, but it's been such a plug and play fest trying to diagnose this, that I really dont care if it's the board now, just that its fixed hehe.... Again kudos to you all for the so far assistance I really appreciate it!

Have you checked your CPU fan to be sure it is plugged in securely and spinning at the proper RPM? The reason I'm asking is the CPUFAN1 header is just above the DIMM1 slot on your motherboard and could have been partially unplugged when you removed the RAM from DIMM1. A P4 throttling down because of overheating has the same symptoms that you described and the smell could be caused by the arc from from the CPUFAN1 header to the CPU fan power plug.

Seems to be ok, but if I put it on Cpufan2 slot would that be the deciding factor?

If you have a cpufan2 slot and it is plugged into that rather than cpufan1 slot, that could be the problem...

Which plug powers the CPU fan shouldn't make a big difference, both do nothing but supply electricity, unless one is fried...

I'm betting on bad motherboard, always thought so but we have to check everything possible. Burnt smell = bad news...

Well... looks like this is the FINAL post on this subject for me!!!! Thank god! As much as it stinks, it looks like Paleo hit the nail on the head. I didnt get a chance to check the motherboard with a magnifying glass, and I still see no visible damage to it, but I just got my new P4x400 soyo in today and rebuilt the whole system. So after trying to replace everything it came down to a bum motherboard..... KEY note to everyone... Dont show people how to install Memory the WRONG WAY lol. Once again, a big thanks to everyone for your input :-):D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Thanks for letting us know, I suspected bad motherboard from square one, but I always like to check every possibility I can before finally deciding to bite the bullet...

Yes- That was my gut feeling early on too.
Sometimes, it amazes me this stuff works at all. If you look closely at the Motherboard, add in cards, Power supply etc. and see each individual component it's almost scary. All the capacitors, resistors, IC chips, coils, diodes and on and on....Not to mention the intricate printed circuits- And then think that all it takes is one 10 Cent part to go bad (or even a cold solder joint) to render the whole thing useless or unstable....It's almost mind boggling.

Originally posted by ghonadz
..... KEY note to everyone... Don't show people how to install Memory the WRONG WAY lol.

Showing them is fine....Just show them on their Computer and not yours.
That way, when you burn something up, you can say. "Boy-You sure have some rotten luck". "Here I go and add some more ram for you, and your Motherboard decides to die right now of all times"
"I'll be glad to help you out and replace it for you, but it's gonna cost you!" :D

LOL, well at least I still have a sense of humor left after all this... you just about made me fall out of my chair with that one jabarnut... And I pretty much had it in the back of my mind that my dimm slot or something close to it bit it when I got that odor, but I was holding out hope upon hope that I wouldn't have to go back to square one!. Im still friggin AMAZED that this thing was booting up and running with whatever was still going wrong with it's circuitry.... Well, gotta go get my M21 and head off for some serious sniping on Novalogic! Blow off some steam ya know :-)

Oh good god, looks like I was a little premature in my excitement over here. Machine was running great last night, had xp loaded and was testing it by doing all the things that were making it reboot before and it was fine. Well, just now it friggin started again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just had a reboot, then went to try to print something and it friggin crashed on me again same as before... Only this time Ive had no really obnoxious burning smell over here. Is it possible the memory's junk too and thats now contributing?? Feel like Im starting all over again here!! As usual, all input is appreciated.. thanks guys

Since you probably had a pretty good power surge on the old board it is quite possible that the RAM is bad, the hard drive may be damaged, even the power supply may be effected. I would just go into test mode... Try testing the RAM with one of the test programs like DocMem or Memtest86. Try the hard drive with the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostic utilities. The PS would have to be swapped out, but test the things that can be tested easily before proceeding to the more difficult items....

Ya, I kept that 430 dual fan PS that I used to test the system before, so Im pretty sure thats fine, but Im once again leaning towards memory. So far I havent been able to get one of those memory testers to work, but I'll keep plugging at it. LOL at least I'll get a new mouse out of the deal cuz I pretty much just smashed mine when the thing crashed this morning hehe....

:eek:
Really sorry to hear that ghonadz...(I was happy for you too) :(

Only light at the end of the tunnel at this point is by process of elimination, you pretty much know what's new and (hopefully) working properly.

I know you already swapped out the PSU...Didn't you also just purchase brand new Ram?

I would be leaning in all sorts of directions including software if it weren't for the fact that you didn't have any of these problems before you were showing your friend the Ram installation.
Bummer.

That could be an expensive temper...

If you can't get the RAM testing program to work, that is a clue that RAM may be the main problem and it is the most likely. Do you have another stick of compatible RAM to try???

Nope on the ram so far. Ive tested the one Ive got, but the results are inconclusive to me so far. It passed all the tests but then when I looped it, after a while it just hung the system. I did go buy a new stick of ram last week. That was my first hunch, but when it didnt fix anything I brought it right back and returned it for the power supply. Especially considering Ive got a Kingston 512 400 mhz stick that I got online for 80 bucks and the crucial 256 stick cost 100 bucks from the store lol. I may be ordering a new stick sometime today. I know Kingston will warranty the memory if thats the prob, and getting a new stick plus warrantying the old one if thats the cause would really make me sad cuz then Id have a gig of 400mhz ram in here lol.... We'll see, Im trying to flash my Bios and do a few other goofy things first.

Flashing the BIOS is unlikely to do anything helpful and can be quite dangerous if you are not real sure you know what you are doing. I would hold off on that one if I were you....

Actually Im passing on that for now anyway... I think Im gonna bring the thing somewhere and see if someone can diagnose it. I hate to do it cuz it makes me feel like a friggin mega noob, but Im at wits end here! Plus Ive already racked up $200 bucks in purchases to have the same thing keep happening and short of a whole new system including processor Im not sure what the heck is gonna beat this little bug Ive got.... So it might be out for a day or so getting a good once over

This could be one of those stranger than science things, but consider this scenario-

Inserting the Ram wrong during the "demonstration" caused damage to your Motherboard.
Thinking at first it was bad Ram, you tried new Ram but still the same problem (Motherboard shot).
So...You returned the Ram, replaced the Motherboard and things seemed OK.
However, the original old Ram is still in there if I am following this right.

Therefore, there were two problems when the "sparks flew". One, the Motherboard was fried, and two....So was the Ram.

I think as Budfred (and you) mentioned, that bad Ram is still the next logical problem now. (You've already replaced the PSU)
I know how you feel...This sort of thing can drive you crazy.
Good luck!

PS...If none of that made sense, don't worry. My thinking becomes distorted at times. :rolleyes:

Actually Jab, your thinking makes perfect sense, and it so happens that your logic is EXACTLY what I am thinking right now. Well, the Poor Computer (PC LOL) is hopefully getting diagnosed right now and I'll discover what the 'professionals' think lol. Im putting my money on both the mem and board got toasted during the adventure (at least really hoping for it at this point.)
Will keep ya posted

Well, thought it would be time for another update... Just got the baby back from BestBuy where I brought it to be diagnosed (Note to self.. never do that again) Well, after having it for 3 days, breaking the faceplate on the machine (they tried to unscrew a molded plastic screw to get my faceplate off) and then being told that A.) They couldnt find any problem and B.) they'd give me a 25 dollar gift card to make up for my broken hundred dollar case here's what Ive done...

Talked to Soyo who said they would warranty the board, so the original is on its way to Soyo. Talked to Kingston who said they'd warranty the mem and that will be going out today. However, Soyo techs mentioned a program called Sisoft Sandra which they use to diagnose everything. Ive got it and have run it, but I cant get through a complete test without rebooting..... Im starting to wonder whether its possible that there's a specific process crashing me because it always reboots when it's checking the process tree. Not sure if this helps at all, but I could post the results as far as the diagnosis program gets, its just big and a little confusing to me.

Basically, at this point the plan is to wait for both the new board and new mem and see if that fixes when they are installed NIB together... thereby eliminating the possiblity that one is causing the other to fail.... Any ideas? Input :)? Mucho thankso as usual ---The Nadz

Just finished reading your thread. OUCH!

Got couple questions for you though;
1. Have you installed any expansion cards from your old PC onto your new motherboard?
2. When messing with the motherboard connections, what all did you check/re-seat?
3. In the bios, under something like PC-heath, do all the power readings show up as being normal?
4. Have you ruled out anything else getting fried other than the motherboard and ram? video card/sound card/NIC/RAID/capture card/etc.

if you were still using your older motherboard, one thing to try would be to use the motherboard "fail-safe" settings. But since replacing it didn't solve the problem, you might start looking into checking your video card or anything else that might be acting up under any stress.

not-so-interesting note:
I had a soyo mobo (well, I still do, but it's running my Dad's office satellite connection) that a few years back DID have electrical discharges whenever the humidity in the room was extremely low. It got to the point where it would actually dim the monitor screen when it would happen. :D

Well gentleman, I just figured Id pop my head in here one last time (for this post anyway :-) and give you guys the skinny.... So now Im sitting here waiting for Best Buy to pay for this sweet new case that I bought to replace the one their techs broke! (its a casedge Diabolic Blood red... one word.. Absolutely friggin Awesome case (ok. 4 lol) Kingston warrantied my memory (one stick 512pc3200 CL3) which was quite awesome of them (note to self, always buy Kingston) Soyo sent my board back to me saying they updated my bios under warranty also i might add, and after an extremely tense and careful few hours Ive got myself my machine back. Been running since last night, ran a 3dmark bench and Sisoft without fail, and my Ed2K/ON is back to bogging me down again lol. Sorry it's taken me so long to get this up, but Ive been waiting on all these parts to come in from across the country and like I said, MOBO just got here around noon yesterday. Not only do you guys have no idea how friggin happy I am to see these little red eyeballs staring at me, but you also have no idea how much I appreciate this forum. Something to be said for places like this :-) Hopefully I can work on building my pc knowledge a bit more so that I can help others out here with problems, but for now it's been nice brainstorming with you guys :-) Anywho, gotta run, but props to everyone straight from Deeznutz LOL :D :D :D :D :D ;)...P.s. although we may never know for sure, I still would put all my money on me toasting the memory;)

Glad to hear this horror story had a happy ending.

Hopefully I can work on building my pc knowledge a bit more so that I can help others out here with problemsYou know, believe it or not we actually learn tons more from epic PC horror stories like this than we ever will from those simple "quickies"! And I'm sure you've learned a few of the NO's of PC building/maintainance, too. ;)

Experience leads to expertise. If it didn't, the words wouldn't be related! :p