my CDRW discs are not accepted by the CD rom on either of my 2 pc's although they are accepted by the CD burner drive. on pc is running CD creator the other nero.

both on w98se.

CDR's are ok on both pc's

not accepted? Does it just sit there trying to read the drive for what seems like ages - only to spit it out?

My guess would be that the CD's have not been propely closed off? In which case they would only be readable in CDRW devices. Well thats my understanding anyway!

yep, just tries to read like forever, sometimes I have to re-boot to get the CD out. using packet writing they should be usable in CD rom. there is a delay at the end of a 'write' cycle whilst the CD is closed.

When "DirectCD" is running in the background [the icon is showing in the system tray] and I insert a CD-RW disk into my CD-RW drive, the program recognises that the CD-RW disk has been inserted and I can use it like a giant floppy disk.
Then when I eject it the software closes out the session [so I believe].
But I never expected it to be readable in anything but a CD-RW drive, and only if "DirectCD" is running.
Then I discovered the option to close the disk so it was readable "in most standard CD-ROM drives". [I think this should only be applied to CD-R's.]
So I filled a CD-RW disk with files and thus closed the disk.
I saw your thread and tried the disk in my ordinary CD-Reader [capable of "Digital Audio Extraction"].
The drive light flashed regularly a few times then stopped and the disk did not register as inserted in the drive. No files were viewable.
When I put it back in the CD-RW drive, it flashed regularly, registered the presence of the disk, and the files were readable.

So I went to the "DirectCD" help files and found the following notes:
QUOTE
Reading DirectCD Discs on Other Computers
The UDF Reader driver (also called the Adaptec DirectCD Reader) enables MultiRead CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drives to read DirectCD (UDF) formatted CD-RW discs.
The UDF reader is automatically installed on your computer when you install DirectCD. Discs that are created with DirectCD can also be read on another Windows computer. If DirectCD is not installed on that computer, the UDF reader will be automatically installed from the DirectCD disc when it is inserted in the drive.
END OF QUOTE
I tried once, and failed, to get this to work.

It seems that only a CD-R can be easily read in "A standard CD-ROM drive".
QUOTE
Ejecting a DirectCD Disc to Read on Another Computer
When you eject a CD-R DirectCD disc from the drive and you want to read it on another computer that has a standard CD-ROM drive, the disc must be formatted as an ISO 9660 closed session disc.
Only CD-R discs can be closed as an ISO 9660 format. CD-RW discs do not support the ISO format.

I hope you aren't trying to read the Nero disks on a DirectCD machine or vice-versa....the two UDF types are not comapatible with each other.

And what Sylvander has is a good start....

You need to make sure that the machine has the reader program and don't rely on the auto-install method.

well I used CD creator for a couple of years or more, never had a problem with it, used one CDRW to store programs (mostly freeware) and another for data. these 2 CDRW's I used constantly in several machines which only had a CD rom, they automatically installed the software I ran on the machines without problem.

I bought a new 'liteon' burner for this machine as the old yamaha would no longer burn CDR's but would still burn to CDRW. but the liteon would not work with the CD creator, so I installed nero (which came packaged with it) I was surprised when it still worked with the old CDRW's which I had done with creator ! as I thought that I was going to have to re-do them.

so I installed nero on the other pc but the yamaha would not work with it so I cleared the pc and re-installed CD creator (4 BTW package version) I can now read the CDRW's in either machine, some were created on one, some on the other.

but are not recognised by the CD rom on either pc.

Looks like it is probably a conflict with the UDF reader versions....

Yes, the version of Nero that comes one with Liteon burners is keyed to work only on Liteons.

and so I have discovered another problem......,

I have a few digital CD's and when the yamaha was fully working I used it with CD creator 4 to produce audio Cd's from the digital source. with no problem.

I have just tried this with the liteon and Nero 5, it advises the format of suitable file types which include .wav (which is the format of the digital Cd) but when I do it, it reports "not acceptable format" yet it will accept other .wav files that I have produced myself in cakewalk.

so I tried with the other pc (NOTE: the other burner will no longer burn to CDR's but will still burn to CDRW's)

it accepted the files, no problem.

any ideas ?

I wonder if this might apply:
QUOTE
Deciding Which Format to Use: CD-ROM or CD-ROM XA
You can turn a single-session CD into a multisession CD at any time by adding another session. However, it’s best to decide in advance whether or not your CD will be multisession, so that you can decide whether to record the first session in CD-ROM format (also known as Mode 1; see Glossary) or CD-ROM XA format (Mode 1 or Mode 2). Regardless of which format you use, the second session must be the same format as the first session.
Sometimes you might see only the first session when you attempt to read back the second or subsequent session on a multisession CD. There are two possible reasons for this:

1. The CD-ROM drive you are using does not read multisession at all (this is most likely the case if the drive is very old).

2. The CD-ROM drive you are using recognizes a CD as multisession only if it is written in the CD-ROM XA format. This problem is less likely with the newest generation of CD-ROM drives, but is common with some older models.

Multisession CDs are recorded according to the Orange Book Part II standard (see Glossary). Under the standard, when any CD is inserted in a multisession CD-ROM drive, the drive should by default look at the last session on the CD, no matter what format the CD is recorded in.
However, there have been inconsistencies in the application of the standard. The result is that sometimes a multisession CD is read as if it were a single-session CD and you see only the data in the first session.

To ensure the best possible multisession compatibility, record multisession CDs in the CD-ROM XA Mode 2 format.

Note: For best results, do not combine CD-ROM and CD-ROM XA formats on the same CD.
END OF QUOTE

Did you perhaps record more than one session, and could it be that your Liteon is incapable of reading multisessions?

QUOTE
Disc error - corrupted format
Reason for receiving this message:
Typically, the failure is caused by a corrupted or unknown format on the CD-R disc. The CD recorder couldn’t read or write the requested information from or to the CD-R disc.

Read error - unknown format disc
Reason for receiving this message:
The CD recorder cannot read this format CD.
What to do:
· Clean the CD for dust, fingerprints, or scratches on the surface.
· Use another CD.

What is an Audio (CD-DA) CD?
An audio CD is a compact disc (CD) containing digital audio tracks recorded in the Compact Disc-Digital Audio (CD-DA) format, a worldwide standard to which all digital audio CDs and audio CD players adhere.

Supported Formats
Adaptec Easy CD Creator supports the following CD-R formats:
CD-ROM
CD-ROM XA
CD-DA
CD Extra
Mixed-Mode
CD-I
CD-XA Bridge Disc
END OF QUOTE

doesn't even get to that stage, I put in the digital CD which then autoplays, so I stop it and open up nero, I can then explore the CD. all the tracks are in .wav format, which is accepted by nero, but when I drag them to my compilation (in preparation for burning) I get message "format not supported" however there is an opening tune and a closing tune both of which are in .wav format and those will drag and drop no problem.

It's quite a while since I did them before, but I remember that it was really easy.

not accepted by cakewalk either

:(

I was trying to suggest in my last post [without explicitly saying so] that when the word “format” was used perhaps it meant the kinds of format listed under “Supported Formats”.
i.e.
CD-ROM
CD-ROM XA
CD-DA
CD Extra
Mixed-Mode
CD-I
CD-XA Bridge Disc

For example, audio CD’s should be made in CD-DA format [whatever that is].

I notice that the tracks on my audio CD’s have “.cda” extensions.
When I want to put music onto a CD I use files with a “.wav” extension, yet once they are on the CD [having been put there by Easy CD Creator] they have “.cda” extensions.
I don’t know if there has been an alteration of the form of the data or whether the data remains unchanged and the file extension [only] has been altered.
I tried copying a “.wav” file to “Direct CD” CD-RW disk and using Easy CD Creator to select it for copying and it was quite happy with that!
It was NOT happy when I used an MP3.
It has me puzzled, but then this whole topic is too complex for me.

QUOTE
Because the audio tracks are recorded in CD-DA format, they can be played back on home or car stereos, independent of the application they are associated with.
END OF QUOTE

cda I would suppose stands for CD analogue, (or may have been CD audio, when there was only analogue) and CD-DA, CD digital audio, which makes me question your quote

QUOTE
Because the audio tracks are recorded in CD-DA format, they can be played back on home or car stereos, independent of the application they are associated with.
END OF QUOTE

that would only be if the home/car sterio was a Digital Audio model and not an older analogue model.

but I'm getting away from the point, when nero is open and I have my CD in explorer, all the tracks are in .wav format, now if I try to drag a song to the list I get the message "file format not supported" but if I drag the intro music (which is also a .wav file it is ok. .wav files are supported

so how come one .wav file is different than another ? they all play in sound recorder and wmp. and they all used to drag and drop before I rebuilt this pc.

What you say leads me to pose a question [to myself and to you]:
There are two files.
Both are in the form of wave files.
Yet one of these wave files is, and the other is not, in a format that is supported.
How can two files of identical form be:
one supported;
and the other not.

Is the answer that it is not the wave file form that is, or is not, supported, but one of these other listed formats like CD Extra.
Perhaps if we knew more about the whole subject all would suddenly become clear?
Can two files each have a ".wav" extension yet have another property that makes them different from each other?

I have never used a cdrw in any way so I'm of no use to you on that. Hmmm, that's basically what I think about cdrw's anyway, that they're of no use, well at least to me... ;) Aren't cdrw's limited to use in burners anyway?

Do you finalize them just like a cd-r? Do you need to choose the way the cdrw will be used prior to using it in order for it to be able to be copied by NERO or maybe if you upload the files to your harddrive first, maybe it will allow NERO to 'see' it and burn it to another disk?

And one point: cda's have always been digital right :confused: After all it's an optical device reading a digital encoding converting it to analog for our ears to hear.

45's, albums (33&1/3rpm) etal. and all tape drives are analog. The platters were written with a stylus physically implanting waves into the plastic, and the tapes were written with electromagnetical 'waves'. So essentially they are 3 different methods entirely but the cd's were the first true digital sounds.

At least so I am led to believe.

I think you are exactly right on the digital/analogue thing.
There's no way that there is analogue information on CD's.

CD-RW disks can be used with different applications.
Direct CD [as one example] formats the disk for use and it can then only be used with Direct CD. Then at the very least the UDF reader must be installed to read, or Direct CD to both read & write. And yes, it seems to me that CD-RW disks can only be read in CD-RW drives. I've not yet found any way to make them readable in an ordinary CD-ROM drive despite what the help files say. Which is:
Reading DirectCD Discs on Other Computers
The UDF Reader driver (also called the Adaptec DirectCD Reader) enables MultiRead CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drives to read DirectCD (UDF) formatted CD-RW discs.
So what is a MultiRead CD-ROM drive anyway?

Only CD-RW disks allow DATA COMPRESSION.
Was this used for some of the wave files and not for others I wonder?

I find CD-RW disks VERY useful indeed.
I treat them like giant floppies.
I cleared a whole load of data off my HDD's and onto them for archiving.
Any time I need that data back on the HDD it can be moved from the CD-RW disks back to the HDD, so clearing space on the CD-RW's for other data.
So although they are not so fast as HDD's, they are a fairly inexpensive method of storage and very flexible.

sylvander,

I have an idea about that, in that the songs are copy protected, and I have just done an experiment on the other pc (which now has only a burner which will do RW only) I copied a song to hdd then burned it to CDRW. it then gor the ext .cda

being a CDRW it will not play in a CD player but will in CD rom, the song skips but that may be the burner.

if the difference is copy protect, then I don,t understand why, as Nero usually reports that, then overcomes it automatically.

I agree that we probably don't know enough about it, but it seems that there is no way to access these songs to even change the format, apart from the fore going. but I did it before, like 18 months ago without any problem, from the same CD's. and I now have a more up to date system etc.

FFT

I found them very usefull because....,

I first used CDRW's as an extra drive when my hdd was 2.1Gb and half of that was o/s & progs. with 2 or 3 CDRW's I had enough capacity for what I wanted without overloading the hdd. that was at the time a big advantage for me.

Now I have 40 Gb and a couple of spare hdd's so times have changed. however I keep a CDRW with 'work' stuff on and another with 'programs' (mainly freeware) and another with photo's, these I can use on any pc and update as required. They DO work in a pc rom and are not restricted to burners.

thanks for the comments on the analogue/digital, I agree with what you are saying, but I understood that analogue and digital refered to the final output ie: what you actually hear rather than the process that it has gone through. having said that I know very little about it.

with the 'burning' process there are several things that can be done, direct CD for inst is packet writing and the CDRW is used like a high capacity floppy,
or a CD can be copied directly onto a CDR,
or a CD made from files on the hdd. ie: .wav files & mp3 files can be added to the composition and when they're burned they convert to a .cda which can be played on home CD player.

this is all my understanding of it, which is limited, I know the things that I can do, (or have done) and usually don't have a problem repeating the exercise, (only new things cause me to struggle)

but as said previously, I did this 18 months ago from the same CD's with no problem, the pc has been re-built since then with new m/b and CD writer (amongst other things) so I suspect that it is something within the system that is creating the problem, like the onboard sound or s/w or ???????

thanks for hanging in there with me with your ideas/ suggestions, it is much appreciated.

"the song skips but that may be the burner"
I've never tried this myself, but I'd expect it to playback ok on a CD-ROM drive when copying music to a CD-RW disk. I decided to try, for the first time ever, using Easy CD Creator to copy a wave file to a CD-RW disk. I did that and found it played just fine in the CD-RW drive without any skipping. I can't try playing it back in my CD-ROM drive because there's no audio signal cable from that drive to the motherboard. There is only one audio signal connection on my motherboard and that is connected to the CD-RW drive.

"They DO work in a pc rom and are not restricted to burners"
Is that just music on CD-RW disks or other data on other types of disk too?

"I understood that analogue and digital refered to the final output"
A lot of things start out as digital and are converted to analogue somewhere along the line [my cable TV for example, and music CD's, and old style modems].

I just found this in the "Direct CD" help files:

Note: Only CD-RW drives can read from, write to, and erase data from CD-RW discs. “Deleting” files from a CD-R disc makes the files invisible to the file system but does not free up any space on the disc.

This, of course, only applies to disks produced using "Direct CD".
At first look that seems inconsistent with:

"Reading DirectCD Discs on Other Computers
The UDF Reader driver (also called the Adaptec DirectCD Reader) enables MultiRead CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drives to read DirectCD (UDF) formatted CD-RW discs."


USEFUL INFO
CD-R Advantages
1. Good for permanent data storage
2. Less expensive per disc than CD-RW disc
3. Convert it to a format (ISO 9660) that can be read on other CD-ROM drives
4. Use when you do not need to erase the data.

CD-RW Advantages
1. Allows you to erase data and re-write new information (for example, updating files)
2. Useful for making a practice CD or for testing the contents of a CD before making a permanent one

See here http://www.pctechguide.com/09cdr-rw.htm#CD-RW
where it says:
"One compromise here is that the disc reflects less light than CD-ROMs or CD-Rs and consequently CD-RW discs can only be read on CD players that support the new MultiRead specification. Even DVD-ROM drives, which themselves use the UDF file format, need a dual-wavelength head to read CD-RW."

Read here http://www.pctechguide.com/09cdr-rw.htm#Universal_Disc_Format
about different versions of the UDF standard.
In particular where it says:
"Adaptec's DirectCD V2.0 software allows two kinds of packets can be written: fixed-length and variable-length."

I wonder if one of your wave files could be written using variable length packets which cannot then be read by the system set up to deal only with fixed length packets?

I missed one of your posts when I posted my last one, (must have taken me a long time to type !) and note your comment about CDRW's with CD roms.

I would normally access info from a CDRW on my ROM drive, unless I wanted to add data or edit. no particular reason other than in early days I possibly thought that it was safer & could not accidentaly erase data, but from then been just habit.

when you use on another pc it will show no data, but instead tell the user that the 'read' s/w needs to be installs, (unless of course it has been installed previously) click ok, s/w installs and it can then be read.
because of this (the s/w on each CDRW at the time of format) the capacity is slightly less than the rated capacity.

QUOTE:

They DO work in a pc rom and are not restricted to burners"
Is that just music on CD-RW disks or other data on other types of disk too?

all data, whether formatted as direct Cd or not, (of course it must be 'multi read'. which just means that it can read all the common formats, any rom within the last few years should be multi read)

note on mjc's comment's the format is supposed to be UDF which I believe stands for UNIVERSAL DISC FORMAT, it is not of course universal, unless it IS universal !!

but when I bought the liteon (which would only work with nero) I thought that I was going to have to re-format my CDRW discs, but that was not the case they were all ok (much to my surprise) however 6 months on & they seem to be getting less & less compatable with each other :confused: also the CD rom's are having much more difficulty with them. (the CD rom has now been pulled from the other pc & binned, as the other night it stuck shut & refused to open, eventually I got it open with a paper clip, but then it refused to close completely and eventually something broke. it was only about twelves months old too, I don't think that they are made to last)

however the second pc (using direct CD with an old yamaha. (CDRW only working) BTW did you know that CDR is first to fail ? it is apparently a more precise process than burning CDRW) the second pc will drag and drop the songs from these digi CD's onto the compilation without problem. it's just this pc that has a problem with that.

anyway I'm going to read through your posts again, and again, and again, (theres a lot to take in )

I came across this in the "Easy CD Creator" help files:

"Sometimes, it appears that you wrote a CD without trouble and can read it on your CD recorder; however, when you put it in a standard CD-ROM drive, the CD is ejected, or you get error messages such as no CD-ROM or not ready reading, or you have random problems accessing some files or directories. You may find that the problems vanish completely when reading the CD on a different CD-ROM drive.
This may be due to compatibility problems with some CD-ROM drives, especially older ones, and recordable CDs. Some CD-ROM drives' lasers are not calibrated to read recordable CDs, whose surface is different from that of factory-pressed CDs.
If your CD-ROM drive reads mass-produced (silver) CDs but not recordable CDs, check with the CD-ROM drive manufacturer to determine whether this is the problem. In some cases, an upgrade is available which will resolve the problem.
The combination of CD brand and CD recorder can make a difference. Use CDs that are recommended by the CD recorder manufacturer."

can't think that its a compatability problem, as cakewalk doesn't accept them either, and the drive is only a few months old.

I have however found a workaround, which is to use an encoder and convert the .wav files to mp3's, nero will then accept them and I can drag/drop them into compilation without trouble. when I burn them they are then converted to .cda and the resultant discs can be played in home CD player.

seems to me that if it was a protection issue that they shouldn't have converted to mp3's in the encoder, but other that that they should have been accepted as were the other .wav files.

I think you are right in that the 2 lots of .wav file are different. well they are in as much as 1 is acceptable and the other not, but there must be more to it than that.