Looking at a friend's older Compaq machine, do you think this could be anything other than a fried mother board... and hence worth repairing.

Scenario... pc working fine.
Power cut while pc connected but not switched on.
Pc will not boot next time it is switched on.

OK this is what I find, memory count runs at top of screen, no other text whatever. FDD test ok light comes on, then HDD test light on and I hear the drive test. Then two short beeps and a flashing curser, this is as far as it goes.

If left the FDD tests again and the HDD tests... this continues.

Bios is Compaq... error code says 'general error, unknown' on the chart but there is no error message on screen.

If I insert a floppy and switch on I am told that a non system disc is present, remove and press any key... then the situation returns to as above.

I cannot get into Bios via the keyboard... but I get a beep on key press.

Any idea.... or fried mobo?
Thanks..... Graham

If you know what you're doing in BIOS, look for a blinking vertical cursor at the top right corner of the screen while the red Compaq logo is still displayed. You'll have 5 seconds to press F10 to get into BIOS. Check the boot sequence and reset if necessary so it checks floppy first.

If you get it to boot to a floppy, win98 start up disk preferably, use scanreg to replace the registry with a good copy made before this happened. I'm assuming it's running win98 here...

The DOS command is scanreg /restore. Make sure to put a space before the /.
It sounds like it's finding something the registry doesn't like, maybe scanreg can replace an earlier copy and fix it. Scanreg makes 5 copies by default, cycle through them and find one definitely made before the problem started. They'll be listed by date.

Thanks for the reply Paleo Pete,
The memory count at top left is the only text which appears at any time, no Compaq logo or vertical curser, just a horizontal curser which appears top left on a black screen after the memory count is complete.

I must admit I was using 'delete' to try and access bios as is my practice on my own system... so Compaq is F10... ok I need to try that.

I believe it is checking the floppy first as it is but I doubt that he has a Win98 start up disc.... would a general boot disc from here http://www.bootdisk.com./bootdisk.htm be suitable? The pc is using 98, but not SE.

Graham

I would advise using a Win 98 boot disk (as these are the best, to make one go to control panel, add/remove programs, startup disk at top and then create disk). Check the Bios setup, this is most likely to be the problem, make sure boot sequence is A:,C:, that non-system disk, in my experience if it is not a 98 boot disk thats what it will say when a disk is inserted. The problem, as there is no error message with the beeps, this is strange but in a site I have just found( http://www.computer-firstaid-services.com/bios2.html )this indicates just power on successful, so I would say you have a harddisk problem. That scanreg, try it but when I had a problem and it tried to run that, the problem was a failing hard disk. Apart from setup, Hard disk or maybe floopy (but not likely from what you described), I don't know what the problem could be, but I am suprised your having problems with a compaq, they usually sort them selves out. Hope I could help, if not sorry, just try a Win98 boot disk and check manual, and if you havn't got, search for one on net, download it and it may have the beep codes for that computer

>>I don't know what the problem could be, but I am suprised your having problems with a compaq, they usually sort them selves out. Hope I could help, if not sorry, just try a Win98 boot disk and check manual, and if you havn't got, search for one on net, download it and it may have the beep codes for that computer<<

Thanks Marzman... I have not seen a pc with so little information on the screen before! I know that there was no rescue or boot disc made with this machine, and it is too late to make one now.

That is why I was asking about the boot discs available at the web site posted previously... presumably these can be used on any machine? I will download the Win98 one and give it a try.

Thanks... all help is greatly appreciated
Graham

A bootdisk from bootdisk.com should work just fine. I have used them in the past to fix system issues.

From what I can recall of Windows 98, it is most likely as, Paleo Pete suggested, an issue within windows itself. The bootdisk and scanreg scenario should help you to resolve this issue.

Here's the "Boot Troubleshooting Walkthrough" at about the point you experience problems.
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/ram1.htm

How much further do you get do you think?

Start of the walkthrough is here
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/index.htm

Download my diagnostic flowcharts from here
www.erniek.eclipse.co.uk/downloads/sylvanderdiags.zip
and print them.
They may help to narrow the focus of your attentions.

Originally posted by Sylvander
Here's the "Boot Troubleshooting Walkthrough" at about the point you experience problems.
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/ram1.htm

How much further do you get do you think?

Start of the walkthrough is here
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/index.htm

Download my diagnostic flowcharts from here
www.erniek.eclipse.co.uk/downloads/sylvanderdiags.zip
and print them.
They may help to narrow the focus of your attentions.

The memory count at top left is the only text which appears at any time, no Compaq logo or vertical curser, just a horizontal curser which appears top left on a black screen after the memory count is complete. Considering this it is difficult to get far through the walk trough at all Sylvander... The system BIOS startup screen does not appear, nothing but a simple text RAM count, then 2 beeps (Compaq BIOS).

As far as troubleshooting, the keyboard lights and key strokes will cause a single beep, but I cannot type on the screen or enter BIOS. If I put 'any old' floppy in the drive it will tell me that it has detected a non system disc, so that is working. I need to get back to the machine with a boot disc and see if I can access anything with that. Any solution which suggests entering BIOS etc is not possible at this stage it seems.

Hi, I now have the PC in my possession and am making a little progress.

Sylvander... I have printed your excellent flow charts, thankyou very much for those. Following through I get to DF6 'Check files, Check config., Use software diagnostics' (noting the two beeps along the way which give an 'unknown' error on the list I checked, Compaq bios)

Using a WIN98 OEM boot disc in A: brings up the A: prompt if I start the PC without CD help. From there I can get a dir of C: so the drive is readable.

Running 'scandisk' from a: it stops at 15% or so (I should check exactly maybe) and I get the following messages...

'Scandisk encountered a data error while reading the FAT on drive C. This prevents ScanDisk from fixing this drive.'

then...

'Registry file was not found. Registry services may be imperitive for this session.'

Then...

'XMS cache problem. Registry services may be imperitive for this session.'

Then...

'Data error reading drive C:'

and finally...

'C:\windows\system\vmm32.vxd: missing/unable to load'

Where should I proceed from here please.

ChkDsk appears not to run.

Graham

If you are getting scandisk errors.
Going beyond that is a waste of time and effort.
If the system can't read the data stored on the disks drive/hardrive it will do nothing but cause more errors.

You need to fix the drive first.
Then move on to the next step

Check the make and modem of the drive installed in the system
Then visit the manufacturers web site and find / download their drive diagnostics /repair utility

Run the drive utility
When you have that done you can move on to the next problem if there are any..

All the error messages you are getting beyond the first are more than likely being cause by the data not being available due to the drive not reading

I would say the missing files would indicate a corrupt windows setup, which couldbe repaired but with the Fat on drive C: messages and the error reading data I would hazard a guess that the Hard disk has bad sectors. This problem is only going to get worse and due to the bad sectors your going to be able to do less and less and your continually get things happening like scandisk freezing at 15%. I would advise putting on a new drive, buying one from a company or maybe a computer show (although you don't always know what your buying). The age of the computer determines what size of disk you can put on it (ie: 486= 512mb- I think and pentium 1's can usually take up to 7, 8Gig). What is the computer in question, and rather than paying moneyfor a new H/D, ask around for someone with an old 3Gig or something. Hope I could be of help. Heres something which I've done in the past. I've formatted, using the boot disk through dos, the hard disk again and if it survives this you usually get a little more life out of the hard disk, but its going to fail and you lose all your files. One other thing, through FDISK check the partitions on the hard disk and check if they are any active. This could be the problem but in my experience the FAT message coming up on what was a working computer is always a sign of impending hard disk failure. You could check the disk on your computer, set it up as a slave and you might have a better shot at repairing it. hOpe i could be of help. best of luck. P.s-i would not advsie formatting it but if you do, ahve all the software, win etc handy.

Did your friend perchance make anything like an AVG "Rescue Boot Disk"?

This can be used to rebuild the "Master Partition Sector" [which includes the FAT I think].

By the way, I believe that the version of "Scandisk" that works in DOS doesn't fix anything it finds wrong, which isn't much help.

I was today experimenting with my copy of the "Emergency Boot CD" [EBCD], which is a bootable CD packed with repair utilities etc.
It uses its own OS and includes a copy of "Scandisk" which I believe would fix problems found.
It also includes a HDD scanning utility that I tried. It looked pretty good.
I don't see any mention of the OS being used by the problem PC.

I know the EBCD works with Win98 and I think WinXP also.

Go here http://ebcd.pcministry.com/ for info
Just click on "Download" at the left to go to the page for the link to the compressed file used to make it.

See here http://tinyurl.com/nthr for the original discussion on how to make it, but the method totally altered so ignore the beginning. Just use it for background. I made my copy on a CD-RW disk and it's possible to add all kinds of extras [if you know how, which I don't].

'Scandisk encountered a data error while reading the FAT on drive C. This prevents ScanDisk from fixing this drive
Whether this is caused by a bad sector or just a corrupted FAT (File Allocation Table) it is unlikely to be repairable (even by replacing FAT1 with FAT2 manually since Scandisk should have been able to do the switch itself).

The most important question is whether there is data you wish to recover from the drive. If so use GetDataBack (http://www.runtime.org/) which can recover most if not all data from an accessible drive like yours. It's algorithms can do this even in the presence of disrupted FATs.

After you have recovered any valuable data run the HDD diagnostics and if you get the all clear then run the Compaq Restore from it's CD. If not then ditch that HDD.

Thanks guys... I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I should stop! This is an old machine (bios is dated '95, monitor '94) and there really is no important data to recover according to the owner, who is the only person to whom that matters of course.

Rick, Marzman, Paul... your thoughts on the drive look logical to me, Sylvander, I will try the download just to see what it will do in this situation (assuming I can work out what to do with it) for interest but without raising the wners hopes. The sensible thing to do is buy a new machine.

Thanks for your time and effort, I am printing this for future reference. Sometimes succeding is knowing when to stop don't you think :)

Graham

Originally posted by graham_mca
Sometimes succeding is knowing when to stop don't you think :)

Graham

When you get a large stock of extra parts.
It becomes fun fixing these older units.
if for no other reason then to get rid of some of the old hardware sitting in boxes :)

Now where did I put that 540 meg ide drive :)

The sensible thing to do is buy a new machine.
Well that's an option but if your customer was happy with his pc before this problem began that could be overkill particularly when all it may require is a new clean/factory installation of the OS or possibly a new HDD.

If data is not a problem I would at least attempt using the Compaq Restore disks to reset the PC to its factory condition.

BTW - How old or what model is this Compaq?

Owner of the machine may not need to get a new computer, depends on the age of the machine. If its a 486 I would reccomened maybe getting a new computer because they had limitations such as couldn't take over 512Mb hard disks (or around that size) and they ran on I think on 12 Volt, when newer machines run on less so upgrades are tricky, ie a pentium chip would fry inside it. If its not, if its a pentium it may well be worth keeping it. After the P75, the hard disk limitation went, allowing you rather than just putting on a 512mb, to put on a 7 odd gig, depends on m/board etc. You can also (in britain n/way), buy old computers parts quite cheap, wait not quite, dirt cheap. £1 for 64mb simm, a 3Gig h/d shouldn't set you back more than a fiver, if brought from a computer show. You could build a preety good system, and if the computer is of a certain speed, theres always the chance of upgrading the processor. Ie: I'm currently running, due to a problem with new computer, a p133 Mhz, 98Mb of RAM, 7.8 Gig h/d- dats da limit, and sure its slow @ times, but it does what I need, runs net ok, burns cds, plays back media and even runs the odd game. So maybe the sensible thing is to spend a few dollars, have some un and fix up the old unit.

Hi, yes I too am of the mind that if a computer does the job intended, then good enough. So I know where you are coming from. Computer Fairs seem very rare events here in SE Wisconsin and I do miss them having moved from Sheffield, England not so long ago. But Ebay comes to the rescue so all is not lost.

Situation at the moment is it is in my friends hands, either a cheap drive and get it running or 'time to buy'. But out of interest for me I am still playing. From a card found in the usual bag of books and discs I have gleaned the following salient points...

Model: Compaq Prolinea 5100e
CPU: Intel Pentium- 100 (good news!)
HDD: 0.61 GB (1900Kbps)
CD Rom
Bus: PCI (Ver 2.16)
BIOS: Compaq Version 1.1 Copyr 08/23/95
Video: Cirrus Logic
Video Ram: 1024Kb (36000Bps)
Video Res: 1280 x 1024, 16 colours
DOS: 7.10 (Rev A)
WIN: 98 (4.10)

The 'Boot Restore Disk' (floppy) gave the following...
Starting Win 98
This will restore files needed to run windows, etc.
Restoring backup please wait
Error reading the archive file c:\z|back\baseline\cab1.000
Process finished

Paul wrote >>If data is not a problem I would at least attempt using the Compaq Restore disks to reset the PC to its factory condition.<<

>>Whether this is caused by a bad sector or just a corrupted FAT (File Allocation Table) it is unlikely to be repairable (even by replacing FAT1 with FAT2 manually since Scandisk should have been able to do the switch itself).<<

>>After you have recovered any valuable data run the HDD diagnostics and if you get the all clear then run the Compaq Restore from it's CD. If not then ditch that HDD.<<

Paul, any attempt to start the pc with the WIN98 CD inserted gives no results. As noted earlier Scan Disk etc will not run on this drive. Hence I believe the drive at least needs replacing as you suggested. So unless I am misunderstanding you, I ditch the HDD?

Thanks again, Graham

I would get a new H/D. Sounds like a no-go to me. Its only a 610Mb, so Windows 98 takes up 1/3rd of that. Maybe pick up a slightly larger one. A couple of Gig or something

Well it has been awhile, the old Compaq has stood under my bench while the owner's mom perused new machines fully intending to buy one. Last week I heard that this was not going to happen due to finances, so...

I picked up a good used 1.6G HDD, installed, formatted and reloaded Win98 etc. and it works a treat. Owner is a happy bunny now :)

More memory would be a good thing, only 16MB in simm's in there so that is the next project. Thanks for the help and suggestions guys, changing the HDD was the fastest and cheapest (timewise) solution in the end.

Thanks
Graham

Its good its up and running now :). 16Mb of RAM is a bit of a problem, although not too dramatic. I ran a Pentium 1 with 24MB happily for years, but a boost is always useful. Simm's are 2 for a penny now, so you should be able to get some very cheap. Shame your not in the UK, I now a good site that sells lots of good used computer stuff