A question about cooling compounds. Has anyone used Artic Silver epoxy compound for their cpu and heatsink cooling? It prices approximately around 7 to 9 dollars and comes in a syringe. I am building a p4 3.0g with alot of whistles and toys which will have the capability of gaming and video power DVD+R/RW Power from 450 to 600 watts. I am concerned about the cpu heatsink and a very good quality compound, pads I have research and water coolers are white elephants. But it seems to focalize for the best cooling is a thermal paste [Messy but efficient] I believe. So far I am not to up to date on the cooling, esp for high end products, I must concentrate on the best CPU cooling for this system. If anyone can help please give me a few tips.
My best regards thank you.

Artic Silver is the preferred compound for cooling. Use it sparingly, lapping the heatsink makes it work even better.
You should also know that AMD will void a warranty if you use Artic Silver, they prefer the thermal pads.

It's funny I just happened to see this post first thing tonight.
(I know, you're looking at the length of this post and thinking: "Oh God, here he goes again"). :p
Anyway, like many here, I have been using Arctic Silver for quite some time.
I have also used pads in the past. (And a few other materials I would rather not talk about). :rolleyes:

Recently though, (actually while looking on ebay for some Arctic Silver 5), I came across a very interesting listing from a guy who seemed very knowledgeable about cooling.
He was selling not only Arctic Silver which he referred to as "messy greasy I can't get off my hands thermal grease", but also a "Phase Change" material which he felt was far superior.

Several companies make these Phase Change Pads, including Thermagon.
http://www.thermagon.com/DS2.asp?PAGE_ID=90

Well, since reading about some of this stuff, I've been on a mission to discover for example why AMD will void their Warranty if you use a thermal Grease.
(As shown below in one small example):
Use Phase Change Material (http://65.68.55.12/inetpub/ftproot/amd_cpu_pcm.htm)

So far, (and I'm not done looking into this yet), thermal paste and grease can suffer from multiple problems including but not limited to:

Power Cycling: This is a loss of material due to a phenomenon called "pump-out".
Under cyclic loading, extensive thermo-mechanical stresses exerted at the interface because of the relative motion (flexure) between the die and the base of a heat-sink lead to loss of grease material from the interface.

Thermal Bake: The separation and loss of polymeric material could result in poor wettability at the interfaces, resulting in a increase in thermal resistance, also known as "dry-out".

Anyway, I could go on and on about this...and probably will at some point, but I'm really starting to wonder who really started the "Arctic Silver Phenomenon". And, more importantly, why the use of it will void Warranties....surely the Manufacturers of these processors must know something from their research.

Well, I've already gone on longer that I wanted to, and I'm not fully prepared to back my findings yet.....just some food for thought.
And like I said, I've been a big "Arctic Silver" fan too. (Admittedly, mostly from reading this and other Forums).
And listening to a few "Over-clockers". :rolleyes:

So far, what I have found though is that thermal grease is best for testing purposes, where the Heatsink will be removed often and the Thermal Compound replaced often too, and not for a "long term" thermal solution.
Look around the Internet some more, including AMD and Intel and see what you find.....I'll be interested too.
I'm just really starting to second guess what really is the best, and not simply use something because "that's what every geek uses".

I know there have been numerous threads regarding Heatsink materials, and maybe this is one too many.
One thing we all agree on though, is that Lapping the Heatsink sure can't hurt. (Although I must say, even that may be a lot of unnecessary work if a good material is used that is thick enough to fill all the "Voids". (Such as this Thermagon Phase Change material).
Or course, there is a certain pleasure in lapping that thing so you can see your reflection in it....right Whyzman? ;)

Man! I sure have "yapped" (and lapped) a lot on this one. :p

For now, I'll leave you with a rather funny link....it's pretty old, but offers some more food for thought....and "food" for cooling. :D
(Note) The link below has pop-ups...sorry. Hopefully, your Pop-up blockers are working ok because some of this guys findings are pretty interesting. (and funny).

http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

Wow! Sorry folks.....Waaaaaay to much Coffee tonight. :D

(Ok...a little edit) You KNOW I can't help it.
It also occurred to me that we all strive (even "brag") about how low the temps we can achieve are. We've even had threads about it.
However, as long as we are running well below what the manufacturer considers "safe", isn't it more important to be able to say my processor has been running at a constant temps for years than to say "lets see you beat this temp!" And then have the thing die a few months later because the material just wasn't designed to last a long time?

You should also know that AMD will void a warranty if you use Artic Silver, they prefer the thermal pads.

Intel also void warranties if you don't use an approved compound.

Thank you all> Just alittle more info if you would: First Jabar, I really do not understand as what PrntRhd and yourself referring to Lapping the heatsink, is this the term used for moving the Heatsink so as the vanes will overlap the Cpu slightly?
The other question is inregards to the new Aopen board AX4GE Max has the thermister
within the cooling process to sense the change in temp throughout the CPU's performance, or when there is a great amount of usage it will sense the degree difference, and changes the fan rpm to correspond to the change.
When I was researching the varied cooling knowledge bases, I was informed as what you were referring to, more or less using a Thermo pad. The other point is the mention of not only upgrading to a better quality Thermo Pad but to use a larger Fan, or again to upgrade to a better quality fan - that would have a higher RPM rate. May I ask, is the Phase Change a Thermo Pad?
Thank you for the excellent info on your explaination of varied problems using Thermo Grease.
Thank you >>>

Hi atc_traffic...
"Lapping" the heatsink simply refers to sanding down the bottom of the heatsink with varying degrees of abrasive material (sandpaper) :p , until the bottom surface is truly flat. (You drop to a finer and finer material until the bottom is truly "flat").
Even though the best heatsinks seem very flat, there are in fact Microscopic ridges and valleys where precise contact with the CPU Die is not possible.....hense the need for some sort of material between the two. It fills these "voids" if you will. (Which would otherwise be filled with "air" which is not a very good conductor)

Do a search here and you will see many discussions on the way to do it. (It is also discussed briefly in my "funny link" I believe).

And yes, the Phase Change pad is a type of Thermal Pad that actually "melts" a bit and spreads out when the CPU goes through several cycles of heating and cooling.
From what I can gather, the Temps will actually improve after several of these "cycles".
I'm still reading up on this stuff but I just ordered a couple of the Thermagon pads just to try them out.
The link I gave has a store if you were interested in ordering a few.

Again, don't go by what I say, but a little research on the Net will have you asking the same questions that I am. ;)

Wonder where Saphalline is? :p

(Edit) I just did a quick search and here is one link about "lapping a heatsink" (courtesy of Whyzman) that will explain a little better than I did.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/heatsinklappingguide.php

And to be honest, I still have my doubts now that it is even necessary if a high quality Pad is used between the Heatsink and the CPU Die.

Oh...and to answer one other question. Yes, certainly a good quality Heatsink and a larger fan will do a better job of cooling.

You know what though? I know a lot of people that could care less about Heatsinks, Fans, Lapping and Thermal Compounds. Yet their Computers have been running fine for years.
They just don't drive themselves nuts like I do! :p
But hey, that's half the fun right? ;)

Excellent Knowledge and a tremendous help.
Thank you Jabar. I see what you are saying as to the mesh of Heat Sink to Die, all is understood, even for me. You are correct in what you have said about people not really being concern about the problem and have proceded for numerous of years, without a glitch. But I also see that the amount of new capabilities and future expansion requireing faster machines, more video,
more peripherals that will require more cooling. As it stands now the PC's that are crashing, or having problems if you notice 80% are related to heat problems, and when you read the scenarios they have alot of whistles and toys requireing the CPU to work harder and harder. But nevertheless I will consider heat problem solving from the start of putting this PC together.
Thank you and I am going to try that Thermo Pad from your link..

My $0.02...I haven't found anything that cools like Arctic Silver Ceramique. I've used Shin-Etsu, ASII, III and V, Coolermaster Premium, OCZ Ultra, etc. etc.

Ceramique beat them all and it's extremely easy to apply and remove.

Has anyone used Artic Silver epoxy compound for their cpu and heatsink cooling?

Do not use that if you ever intend to remove your HSF from your CPU it is an epoxy glue and will create a permanant bond and is not intended for the CPU HSF.
Use Arctic Silver Ceramique or Arctic Silver 5 do not use Artic Silver epoxy.