Help!
When we turned on one of our computers today we discovered that the computer won't startup in its regular mode, not even safe mode. When I try to start it in safe mode I get the error message Data error reading drive C, so I restarted and started it up in command prompt only and I tried to run scandisk and I got "Data error reading drive C" so then I decided to try running scanreg and I got "Data error reading drive C" This computer is running Windows 98se. Can anyone help me fix this problem.

Its weird because it was working fine yesterday and now it won't do anything but give me this damn message.

I just retried scandisk and I got this message

"Scandisk is unable to check a drive because there is no extended memory loaded onto your computer.

To check this drive make sure make sure that you have a HIMEM.SYS file on the disk from which you are starting your computer, and then restart using the 'command prompt only' option Depending on the location of the HIMEM.SYS file you may need to add a line such as DEVICE=A:/HIMEM.SYS or DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS in the CONFIG.SYS file on your boot drive'

I have no idea what this means. Also to tell you I do not have a boot disk for this computer, and I don't know if I have the Windows 98 CD or not.

Another error to report. This time while starting up I got "general failure reading drive C Abort, Ignore, Retry, Fail" .

I think it is safe to say that my hard drive is dying on me.

Miromc, welcome to The PC Guide Forums!

You can download a Win 98SE bootdisk from bootdisk.com (http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm)
I suggest using the Windows 98SE OEM bootdisk

Download the file on another computer, insert a blank floppy disk, run the file that you downloaded it will write the needed files to the floppy.

Have you checked the system BIOS to see if it detects the hard drive if it doesn't then it is most likely a hardware problem.

If the hard drive is detected in BIOS boot from the floppy choose command prompt only. At the A:\> prompt type scandisk

A:\>scandisk

Just curious, but what was done on the computer the day prior to the problem?
Like rond36 said, you should be able to boot with a Win98 startup disk, at least enough to check your drive for errors.

Also, if you have a recent (known to be working perfectly) backup of your hard drive, now would be the time to try restoring it.

The error messages given indicate hard drive failure or serious data corruption. Data error reading drive C means exactly that, the IDE controller cannot read from drive C. Occasionally this turns out to be IDE controller failure, but not often. The other error message when trying to run scandisk means basically the same thing, scandisk wants extended memory, which is the job of himem.sys, and himem.sys is not there because the drive cannot be read. What puzzles me is without a boot disk and a C: drive that cannot be read, how did scandisk manage to run at all????

Try the suggestions rond36 made, also at the same A:/> prompt try fdisk, to see if it recognizes the drive by typing fdisk. DO NOT make any changes with fdisk, you can use option 4 to View Partition INformation, but DO NOT touch any other options. use the [Esc] key to exit fdisk. At the first screen asking if you want to use large partition sizes (FAT32) simply press [Enter], you won't be making any changes.

If the first fdisk screen displays a message no fixed disks found at top and nothing else,the hard drive is highly likely to be dead. If scandisk won't run from the A:/> prompt as well, you've pretty much verified it, but do check for BIOS identification as well.

If fdisk sees the hard drive and you get to the main options screen, EXIT FDISK AND DO NOTHING, but you may use option 4 if you wish to see the partition info. I must stress though, any other option you use in fdisk can and will erase all data on the hard drive. Viewing partition info will not do any damage.

Then at the A:/> prompt type fdisk_/mbr with a space in place of the underscore ( _ ) used here. That should re-write the Master Boot Record. This is only useful if both BIOS and fdisk do recognize the drive. If neither see a hard drive, it's dead.

newbie2004: Excellent question, what was the last thing done on this computer before this happened? That's actually one we should always ask.

I don't know how the computer was used before it started to freak out, it is my sisters computer. I think it was just used for her to do some of her work on and maybe a little internet.

Its weird, I got the scan disk to run for a while before it froze on me. On my 5th attempt at restarting it the general failure reading drive C Abort, Ignore, Retry, Fail message came up and when I hit F it started scandisk, the problem is that it froze on me later on, and when I restarted again I couldn't get that error message to come up.

I will try your suggestions later this week, I have exams everyday until Wednesday so my time is being spent studying. If anyone else has some suggestions plaese post them.

Paleo_Pete, just a quick question regarding the problem at hand:

If scandisk runs at all, doesn't it mean that there must be some connection between the IDE controller and the hard drive and the hard drive can at least be scanned?

Just curious, as this is pretty new to me, too. It also will help Miromc in educational terms...:)

Thanks.

Hi,

As I see it the boot process has been completed both on hardware and some of the windows but not all. Do you have a virus protection software? If you do have one, try to bootup with that software so it checks you MBR and all basic bootup software for any virus. If you don't have one, then it is time to get it.

There is antivirus on theat computer. I installed it about a week beofre it died. It is probably a virus. When all of my exams are done (Wednesday) I will try out your suggestions. As I said before any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Then at the A:/> prompt type fdisk_/mbr with a space in place of the underscore ( _ ) used here. That should re-write the Master Boot Record. This is only useful if both BIOS and fdisk do recognize the drive. If neither see a hard drive, it's dead.


I recall reading on another website related to computer problems that if one should ever encounter the message after an A:> prompt or perhaps C:> prompt saying "invalid drive specification" that they should never use the fdisk /mbr command.

Is that true?

Also in this particular situation, after the A:> prompt, couldn't he type in "Dir C:" and if nothing came up, he'd also know that that was a clear indication of a dead drive?

This is getting weird.
When I started the computer this time I got the "General error reading drive C abort, retry, ignore, fail" and when I typed I it started scandisk for me. Does this mean I might be able to save my harddrive long enough to back up my documents?

My BIOS is reading the hard drive so we know thats not the problem. If scandisk doesn't freeze on my this time I will see what happens.

Scandisk has now finished and a surface scan is running. I've never heard of surface scan and it is taking a long time, hopefully it will finish soon.

"Scandisk is gathering it needs to safeguard the contents of drive C during surface scan" just popped up.

I know this is probably useless info but I might as well put all of it in this post just incase something else goes wrong.

Since it won't let me edit my post I will post here. After finding 15 problems the surface scan is still running, but for the last 30 min. its been trying to fix the same problem and I don't know if it froze or not? I don't want to restart it when I am making progress. If anyone sees this in the next little while do you think this frooze?

The first question I can answerpretty easily...yes, if scandisk runs at all it would imply that the IDE connection is good and the computer is at least reading the drive, scandisk may or may not be able to finish the job and/or repair any errors. If scandisk runs, it should accept other DOS commands.

I've never seen the reference to not using the fdisk /mbr command if you get an "invalid Drive specification" message, but it means the computer does not see a drive so I wouldn't bother running anything but fdisk itself, to see if I get the same error message indicating the drive is not recognized at all. Whether it would do further damage, I don't know.

Miromc:

I think you have one hour to edit your own posts, and posting another response is usually no problem at all, we only get hinky about it when you post it in an entirely new thread or 4 months later... If scandisk sits there for a while trying to repair errors, watch the hard drive LED to see if it's actually reading, if it stays on or off continuously, it might be frozen. I would give it at least an hour before deciding it's locked up...Sometimes it will take a few minutes fixing errors, but normally not more than about a half hour from what I've seen.

I gave it 3 hours, I watched a movie while I waited. Nothing happened and I restarted the computer with the boot disk.

I tried the fdisk and I got a message no fixed disks present. I guess this confirms that the hard drive is dead. But if its dead how did scandisk and the surface scan manage to run, up until it froze? I don't know anything about computer hardware.

I went into the BIOS and next to IDE Hard Drive it says none. So then this confirms it right, my hard drive is dead?

This computer has been nothing but problems since we bought it and we have already replaced it, but there are some really important documents saved on this computer that I really want to get off, but I guess there is no way of doing this now.

I also get a new error during start-up "primary master drive fails". I must now go and bury the hard drive.

Don't bury that hard drive yet! It may be possible to recover at least some of the documents from it.
Open up the case, and remove the drive. try connecting it in the replacement computer, instead of the CD drive.( Usually this saves messing around with jumpers etc)
Boot up, and see if the drive is found in Windows. Copy any important files from it.

If it is not found, check in the BIOS, and see if it is recognised at all.
If no luck there is one method that has been known to work, but it is a once only trick.
Remove the drive, and place it in a well sealed plastic bag. Put that bag inside another, and seal. Then put it in the freezer for about 12 - 16 hours!.
When you remove it from the freezer, get the disk into the other computer as quickly as you can and boot up. You may well be able to read the drive under these conditions, before it heats up.
This will only work, if it works at all, once. After this, you are in the realms of commercial data recovery. If you have a spare arm and leg, and the data is that valuable, commercial recovery is the only option.

But if its dead how did scandisk and the surface scan manage to run, up until it froze?

It was dying, not totally dead. Often a drive will suddenly stop and refuse to ever work again, no matter what. Like a tire that blows out and before you stop it's shredded...gone, bye bye, see ya...

Other times it will die slowly, like the same tire with a loose valve stem. Not the best analogy there, tires can be repaired, hard drives cannot. Once it starts going downhill, back up all critical data soon as possible, assuming you get some warning and have a chance to do so. Until it's completely beyond hope, often scandisk will work, but if a platter is seriously damaged, it might lock up trying to fix errors that cannot be fixed, or trying to read physically damaged areas of the disk.

Well thank you guys for all your help. I guess this computer will join my 486 to be used for spare parts.

Until it's completely beyond hope, often scandisk will work, but if a platter is seriously damaged, it might lock up trying to fix errors that cannot be fixed, or trying to read physically damaged areas of the disk.
Using Spinrite 6.0, I was able to prolong the life of one of my drives for almost two months even when I had given up all hope on it before(the problem quite possibly arising from a power management setting to shut down the hard drive after 20 minutes of non-use).

The question though is whether one thinks it's worth the $89 investment to do that. In my case, I use it on a regular enough basis as an adjunct to Scandisk.

Not probem solving here because if the drive is not recognised in the BIOS one is into commercial data recovery. However I think I can shed some light on fdisk /mbr and when it can do more harm than good.

The mbr can be divided into 4 particular sections. The boot strap code, a disk signature, the four partiton tables and a boot-sector signature. The normal boot-sector signature is the hexadecimal "magic number" 55 AA and occupies the last two bytes of the mbr. If these two bytes can be read as 55 AA then fdisk /mbr rewrites just the bootstrap code and creates a new disk signature but leaves the partition tables intact. (fixmbr under the nt oses is similar but doesnt write a new disk signature).

However if the last two bytes are not 55 AA (which can happen with boot sector viruses and other corruption) then fdisk /mbr rewrites the whole of the mbr AND ZEROES OUT THE PARTITION TABLES. Without the partition tables the disk will be unbootable since any primary partitions on the drive can no longer be referenced/found and without recovery expertise any data will be lost or inaccessible.

So, in short, fdisk /mbr can often fix mbr "problems" and is particularly good at removing drive overlay software (or remnants of the same) but is particularly hazardous if a boot sector virus (or other corruption) has rewritten or moved the 55 AA signature.

PS There are a number of ways of reading the sector signature using hex editors. TinyHexer (http://www.mirkes.de/en/freeware/tinyhex.php) works well from within windows and there are a number of dos editors such as Norton's DiskEdit or PTS DiskEdit (http://bioscentral.com/downloads/hardware/Ptsde104.zip) (direct link).

Paul.........

You've previously mentioned the name of a program/utility that maps out the MBR(and which I had once downloaded some time ago but since deleted)so one can then see if the concluding bytes in the sector have that 55AA signature?

If that program were downloaded onto a floppy and then run, could that indicate whether a HD had a corrupted MBR so as to "warn" one not to use the "fdisk /mbr" command?

Use either of the utilities above (pts diskedit for a floppy). Just go to the end of the first sector of the physical drive - that is sector 0 and read the vaues at offsets 511 and 512 decimal (or 1FE and 1FF hex). Each logical partiton will also have these values at the end of their sectors but the mbr is the one that concerns us here.

Dont write and confirm any changes unless you are sure of what you are doing; just reading stuff is fine.

The tool MBRwork (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html) also has its uses in this area.

PTS DiskEdit is also to be found on utility emergency boot CDs such as EBCD and UBCD.

MBRtool (http://www.diydatarecovery.nl/) has an option to specifically write just these two signature bytes to a HDD.

PS
Have had Sector1.0 (http://www.geocities.com/mbockelkamp/index.htm?dos) around for a while but only just tried it out in DOS. Its safe because it only reads things and simple to use. Enter CHorS to enter those vaues and D for the Drive; the latter needs you to enter 128 (decimal) for hdd0 aka Disk80, 129 for hdd1, etc. Otherwise its unconfusing and very easy to use - and a tiny download.

And just to point out that C0 H0 S1 is the same as LBA sector 0 (both of these are the same reference for the mbr).

Hi,

One question here, isn't MBR written to hd twice in two different places and does BIOS try to read the MBR in the second location if the first is corrupted?

Nope - well I have never come across that though there are a number of 3rd-party apps which will backup the mbr (and/or the embr) - usually as a file somewhere.

Possibly you are thinking of the FATs. There are always two copies of the File Allocation Table kept on FAT partitions. FAT partitions however do not keep a copy of their own partition boot sector although NTFS partitons do so. The different versions of windows and NTFS store this duplicate in different locations of the same partition.

AFAIK there is only one copy of the mbr and that is sector 0. All sorts of things can be found on the first track (the first 63 sectors from 0-62 inclusive) and which is sometimes referred to as an EMBR or ExtendedMBR. The 62 sectors following the mbr are all zeros after setting up a new partition for the first time. This could have been a place to keep a copy of the mbr but it would always be at risk of being overwritten by a variety of agents. Nor could it be put anywhere else on the drive without the danger of being overwritten when partitions were created. It is normal for the first partition to begin at sector 63 (the 64th sector of the HDD or if you prefer the first sector of the second track).

I recently had the same issue as the original post. I downloaded the win 98 boot files on a floppy and when I started up my computer, it found them and appeared to copy them to the c: drive but when it finished installing the files it took me back to the a: i restarted the computer and nothing happened. all of my files seem to still be on the computer but windows would not start back up. I don't have the win98 disk anymore and i can't reinstall it. is there anything else that i can do? is there anything else that i should have to do after i install the boot disk and it takes me back to the a:

all of my files seem to still be on the computer
How have you determined this?

If you have Win98 installed and a Win98 dos boot floppy you could try sysing the C: drive by getting to an A: prompt and entering sys C:

If successful you should get a system transferred message.

Suggest you also download the diagnostic utility from the website of the maker of your hard drive and check the integrity of the hard drive with it.

When i would get back to the a prompt, i would change it back to c and i was able to move around on the c: drive looking in the windows and win98 folders even the files that i had in the my documents folder were still there. i just don't know if the OS is missing any files.

Try sys C: first and check with fdisk that the correct partition is marked as active.

There may be file system corruption or bad sectors on the hard drive so if sysing doesnt help you should first maybe run the diagnostics. If you have valuable data back it up now using Knoppix (link in my sig) or any other method of your choice.

The FREE Emergency Boot CD (http://www.ebcd.pcministry.com/) includes great utilities for for solving problems related to Win9x.
e.g.
1st Menu:
1. File Manager has a nice GUI, allows you to browse and manipulate the contents of the various drives/partitions.
Displays 2 drives/partitions side-by-side and you can copy/move from one to the other.

2. Hard Disk Drive Fitness Test Utility [obvious].

3. Win98/ME Registry Tool scans and fixes the registry; makes and restores registry backups [like c:\>scanreg /restore].

2nd Menu:
4. MS Scandisk is a really nice version; good to use, only does the surface scan if allow it [I usually skip it, takes too long].

5. Recover MBR is REALLY EASY and FAST. Writes a generic MBR I believe.

6. DiskEdit = Norton Disk Editor.

7. Create NT/2000/XP Boot Floppy. [Universal boot floppy?]

8. DOS 7.10 Command Prompt & 32 command progs.

AND MANY MORE! :)