Hi. I built my pc almost a year ago, and have hated doing so since. The main reason is that it crashes mfin time. I'm pretty sure it's the ram, but the tests come up clean. I got a Gigabyte K8NS [regular, not Pro], Athlon 64 2800+, PQI PC 3200 512mb, Seagate 40gb 5400rpm, evga nVidia 5500 [256mb], dvd drive, cdrw, floppy, 550w power supply. I know the hard drive is causing the speed problem though.
The problem is, after being on for about 5 hours, every program starts to crash, and then the system eventually will just restart. It doens't freeze like my last computer did. If I restart it just keeps crashing. Turning it off for about 25 minutes seems to help it though...thus leading me to believe it to be the ram. I've been wanting to get more anyway, and have been waiting for it to the right price...and viola, it is. BUT, will it work? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=586829&sku=ULT30215&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEM981C GA-K8NS Thats my question. AND, if I get 2 of those sticks, could I put my old one in my 3rd slot and have it just be used when the ohters fill up? Like an overflow? Or will it use them the same? I'm not sure how ram works, but I imagein that its part that is bad and once it goes to use that part is when it crashes....but I could be wrong.

Any help is appreciated

What BIOS version do you have for your motherboard? The reason I ask is that when Gigabyte released version F15 it was a faulty BIOS and about a week later they released F16 which improved DDR timing. A lot of people were having crashes and BSOD's and once they updated the BIOS everything seemed to be okay. Just a thought.

Another possibility could be heat related. What kind of case do you have, how many fans, how are cables routed, are they round or flat cables? Just some other things to consider.

About the Ultra memory. I would only recommend Corsair, Kingston or Crucial. I don't have any idea on the quality of Ultra, but do know the 3 I listed are quality RAM.

Also, if you look at that price it is with a $40 rebate if you like waiting for rebates to arrive. Also notice the Disclaimer, only 1 rebate per household etc. If you order 2 sticks, you are only going to get the rebate for 1.

As far as using your PQI with the Ultra, I have no idea on the compatibility as far as timings etc.

Dunno about the bios. I'll check that when I get to the compuer. I have a clear case, with 2 fans in the side, 1 in back, 1 in front, 2 on the ps, and a heavy duty heat sink for the cpu. THere isn't a heat problem...temp monitors show system temp about 92f idling. I have braided ide cables. I keep the dust out of it by bi-monthly de-dusting of it as well. I never knew about that faulty version, but I'll check the version tomorrow when I can. I'm kinda hoping for that to be a bad one so I can update it and all these problems magically go away...lol.

Also, about the rebate, I'd have a friend "order" it, to get around the rebate. lol

Thanks, I'll let you know tomorrow.

Turning it off for about 25 minutes seems to help it though...thus leading me to believe it to be the ram.What? How can you say that?

Despite all the fans you have, I still think it's a heat problem. Your CPU temp is fine. Great! How about the rest of your system? You have a lot of fans. Great! Which directions are they all blowing? The big clue here is that shutting it off for 25 minutes fixes the problem, which then takes 5 hours to return. If it's not a software problem, it's a heat problem.

The CPU reports 78f idling....I didn't believe that but the 64s apparently run really cool. The SYSTEM is 92. They are all blowing in, and a empty fan hole in the top to let it out.

PSU fans normally blow out - did you turn yours around? Also, if the mobo's temp monitor shows the SYSTEM temp higher than the CPU temp, then yeah! I'd say it's a heat problem! The SYSTEM temp should always be about 10-15C cooler than the CPU. If yours is the other way around, that would be the cause.

Turn the rear fan around (blowing out) and see what happens. It could just be that your vid card and/or chipset is overheating.

Ok, I wanted to make sure my memory served right. I went and got SpeedFan again, to make sure. Temps are as follow [I don't know which is CPU, system, or power supply or something else]
Temp 1: 79F
Temp 2: 86F
Temp 3: 36F
Temp 4: 34F
HD0: 77F
I'm American so I don't do Celcius...sorry.

I don't think it's heat related with those temps. And that is NOT idle. That is 4 web pages, Word, 3 conversations, WMP, and in the background One Care, MSAS, Search Indexer [indexing] MSN, Active Sync, Outlook downloading email [MS fan as you can see]

No, the CPU fan is blowing the correct way as well.
Thanks for your help so far.

Those temps on a running, not at idle system are ALL fahrenheit?? I find that incredibly hard to believe. All of them are cooler than body temperature and two are close to freezing. Unless you're running this PC outside in Siberia, something's not right.

I don't know anything about SpeedFan or whatever you used to get those temps, but typically with tools like MBM5, CPUCool and the like the first two are the CPU and mobo. Like Saph said, the symptoms you are describing are classically indicative of a heat issue. If those temps are indeed Celsius, you've got a problem. If they are fahrenheit, I don't believe it.

You can argue against the years..decades of experience here if you insist. But my guess is you'll come back to this realization:

"When you have eliminated all but the impossible, what you are left with is the truth--no matter how improbable it may seem."

Thats what it says. I don't believe the ones close to freezing, and yes, that is ferenheight (sp?). BIOS says the same temps (only in celcius) last time I checked. The air coming out of the top is cool to the touch...I don't know about the processor. It's down in the basement...which room temperature is about 60-65 degrees F. And I have 4 fans blowing that cool air in. If you give me a link to another temp monitor I'll be glad to check the temperatures against SpeedFan. I'm not arguing that it's NOT a heat issue...I just know that the system temperature is cool, and that the Athlon 64s do run cooler than other processors....just no idea how much cooler. AND, I put a nice coat of Artic Silver on it when I first installed it, plus the large heatsink it came with, and then the fan.
I tried to check the bios version...but I can't find a freakin PS/2 keyboard. Bluetooth just wasn't built into bios...grr. I'll snag one from the office tonight and bring it home with me.

THANKS for all your help so far!!

Edit: Also, if I can find a thermometer, I'll place it INSIDE the case and get the system temperature...for sure. However, I don't have anything to check the processor temperature with.
If memory serves me right, Temp2 is the processor. I had this installed before, and to find out the temperature I started up Half Life 2 and a HD video, and that spiked. I'll do the same tonight to verify though.

While they are a bit expensive, you could buy a laser thermometer. They use a red laser to measure IR surface temps. Quite cool. :cool:

Yeah... :cool: indeed, but $$ as well...lol. Grocery store sacker pay just won't cover it...lol.

The thermometer idea is good...I have one inside my case :cool:

Download Motherboard Monitor from here: http://mbm.livewiredev.com/

It handles just about every mobo (except mine :( ). It'll tell you the mobo and CPU temps...you can select Celcius or Fahrenheit, but it defaults to C.

That CPU draws 89 watts and has a maximum case rating (the 2800+CPU case) temp of 79C. I'll take your word for it that AMDs run cooler, the temp cited is the danger/death point.

I'll assume you're running some flavor of XP. I have two...no three or more questions. Have you checked the Event Monitor logs to see what the system has recorded when the crashes occur? If not, do so. There's lots of good useful troubleshooting info there.

Do you have "Reboot on Failure" turned OFF? If not, do so. Sometimes it's impossible to see or visually capture the error when Windoze just restarts itself right away. Does XP display an error message (BSOD) when it crashes with something like IRQ_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL_TO? What did you use to test the RAM? I like MEMTEST86. You need a floppy to run the standalone version so I actually use Ultimate Boot CD. (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/) It's an indispensable, absolutely marvelous collection of utilities and rescue tools. I never leave home without it. :p Download the .iso, burn it to a CD, boot from it, and select MEMTEST86. Did you let the RAM test run long enough? Let MEMTEST run through a complete test cycle (long time), until you start to see errors, or until the system crashes.


Next, you could download Burn In Test Standard (trial), install and run it. I do this with every new build and even on brand new out of the box OEM machines. Set it up to run all the tests and simultaneously show you the CPU temperature. That way, you'll get the big picture on what's breaking down and what's happening with the CPU temp.

Finally, if we go out on a limb and presume that this is neither heat nor RAM, what happens when you boot and run in Safe Mode? What I'm getting at here is ruling out something funky with the OS like a corrupted DLL or a bad system service that gets called somewhere down the line.

Really finally...we can't rule out malware (viruses, trojans, and such). You HAVE run a complete set of malware scans right? Throw in a HijackThis (http://tomcoyote.com/hjt/) scan for good measure. Follow the instructions in the link I provided and post the log here.

Ok. Answer time.
I am running XP Pro.
Yes, I have checked the logs, nothing interesting [other than it cannot sync the time...[I know why though...not an issue]].
It does display a BSOD, and it is similar to that...next time it happens I'll write down the number.
I have tested it using MEMTEST86 and some Microsoft tester...both ran for at least 35 hours straight.
I highly doubt its a file because I've reformatted several times and on each install have the same problem.
I have MSAS running constantly, and do regular Spybot and AdAware scans (although not installed at the moment). I did a HijackThis just for kicks...and attached the log.


HOWEVER, I got an email notifying me of this incredible sale (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=628069&sku=P56-3906&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEM989C) :) :) :) . I want to get 3 sticks at that price :D...but I remember when I built this I read that I had to get certain specifics...but I don't know exactly what. Do you know if it will work?

Edit: Forgot to attach hijackthis log...done. Also, I checked the bios version and it was v6.00PG. Since I have a custom boot logo, I turned that off to check the post screen. I saw that the cpu frequency was 200MHz. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about...but shouldn't that be higher? Thanks

Last question first: I saw that the cpu frequency was 200MHz shouldn't that be higher?

AMDs get multiplied wierd (to me). Probably not a problem, someone else will know.

"Attaching files" is not recommended, paste the ascii text log into the post. I looked anyway. You didn't use the HJT from the link I provided. The HJT you used is outdated. Please download the current version and provide another log, if you wish. I'm not an HJT guru, but I didn't see anything that jumps out. There are a couple of things I'm unsure of and it might be a good idea to get a better set of eyes on them.

We all forgot one obvious question, I think. You built this rig a year ago. When did the crashing start?

You're using IE7, which I think is not "officially" released yet, except to developers. You're also running MS One Care, which is still in beta. That may also explain the absence of any AV or third party firewall. So basically, it looks like your box is a test bed for MS and you've put the life of your PC in their hands. :eek:

I don't mean to be flip, but beta software is beta for a reason...the possibility of bugs that may cause things like crashes. Did your crashing start after installing these still in-development apps? Beta testing is fine...in fact great...but if you do that, especially in bundles, it's not beyond reason to expect quirks.

Did you install MBM5 and see what it says about your temps?

Heck, it could be the RAM, RAM can be funny. But you likely would have seen that from day one--not a year later.

Given all the above, I would do an online AV scan using Houscall or Kapersky. I would install MBM. I would uninstall (at least temporarily) the beta apps, and I would post another HJT log using the current version.

EDIT: BTW--PNY is bargain basement RAM. You pays yo money, you takes yo chances. If I was "convinced" RAM had been causing me all this grief, I would run, not walk, over to the Crucial website.

There are some things I don't scrimp or take a chance on--power, RAM, cooling, and security--not necessarily in that order.

Just my 2 cents there.

Its done it ever since I built it...I just lived with it assuming it was the ram.
I haven't installed that tester yet...I will though.
I forgot to tell you...BIOS said CPU was 30C...or 86F for me...I justhad to convert it :D
Of course...I love beta stuff...I get to toy with it before everyone else, but it was doing this since day one...I just assumed ram....as I already stated.






Current version


Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1
Scan saved at 9:06:26 PM, on 10/24/2005
Platform: Windows XP SP2 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v7.00 (7.00.5112.0000)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows OneCare Live\Antivirus\MSMPSVC.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\TiVo Shared\Beacon\TiVoBeacon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows OneCare Live\winss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows OneCare Live\winssnotify.exe
C:\WINDOWS\SOUNDMAN.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\system32\rundll32.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft IntelliPoint\point32.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft IntelliType Pro\type32.exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_01\bin\jusched.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft AntiSpyware\gcasServ.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft ActiveSync\WCESCOMM.EXE
C:\Program Files\Common Files\TiVo Shared\Transfer\TivoTransfer.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Toolbar Suite\DS\02.05.0001.1119\en-us\bin\WindowsSearch.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Toolbar Suite\DS\02.05.0001.1119\en-us\bin\WindowsSearchIndexer.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft AntiSpyware\gcasDtServ.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows OneCare Live\Antivirus\MpEng.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Toolbar Suite\DS\02.05.0001.1119\en-us\bin\WindowsSearchFilter.exe
C:\Program Files\Windows Media Player\wmplayer.exe
C:\Program Files\MSN Toolbar Suite\DS\02.05.0001.1119\en-us\bin\WindowsSearchFilter.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
C:\DOCUME~1\Brian\LOCALS~1\Temp\Temporary Directory 1 for hijackthis[1].zip\HijackThis.exe

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://mail.google.com/mail/
O2 - BHO: AcroIEHlprObj Class - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 7.0\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: MSN Search Toolbar Helper - {BDBD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\MSN Toolbar Suite\TB\02.05.0001.1119\en-us\msntb.dll
O3 - Toolbar: MSN Search Toolbar - {BDAD1DAD-C946-4A17-ADC1-64B5B4FF55D0} - C:\Program Files\MSN Toolbar Suite\TB\02.05.0001.1119\en-us\msntb.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SoundMan] SOUNDMAN.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [BluetoothAuthenticationAgent] rundll32.exe bthprops.cpl,,BluetoothAuthenticationAgent
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Synchronization Manager] %SystemRoot%\system32\mobsync.exe /logon
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IntelliPoint] "C:\Program Files\Microsoft IntelliPoint\point32.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [type32] "C:\Program Files\Microsoft IntelliType Pro\type32.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SunJavaUpdateSched] C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_01\bin\jusched.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [nwiz] nwiz.exe /install
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [QuickTime Task] "C:\Program Files\QuickTime\qttask.exe" -atboottime
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [gcasServ] "C:\Program Files\Microsoft AntiSpyware\gcasServ.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [OneCareUI] "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows OneCare Live\winssnotify.exe"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MsnMsgr] "C:\Program Files\MSN Messenger\MsnMsgr.Exe" /background
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [H/PC Connection Agent] "C:\Program Files\Microsoft ActiveSync\WCESCOMM.EXE"
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [TivoTransfer] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\TiVo Shared\Transfer\TivoTransfer.exe" /auto:TivoTransfer /registry /service
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [TivoServer] "C:\Program Files\TiVo Desktop\TiVoServer.exe" /registry /service
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - Global Startup: Windows Desktop Search.lnk = C:\Program Files\MSN Toolbar Suite\DS\02.05.0001.1119\en-us\bin\WindowsSearch.exe
O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MI1933~1\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000
O9 - Extra button: Create Mobile Favorite - {2EAF5BB1-070F-11D3-9307-00C04FAE2D4F} - C:\Program Files\Microsoft ActiveSync\inetrepl.dll
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {2EAF5BB2-070F-11D3-9307-00C04FAE2D4F} - C:\Program Files\Microsoft ActiveSync\inetrepl.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Create Mobile Favorite... - {2EAF5BB2-070F-11D3-9307-00C04FAE2D4F} - C:\Program Files\Microsoft ActiveSync\inetrepl.dll
O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MI1933~1\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLL
O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O11 - Options group: [TABS] Tabbed Browsing
O12 - Plugin for .mid: C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\PLUGINS\npqtplugin2.dll
O12 - Plugin for .wav: C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\PLUGINS\npqtplugin.dll
O16 - DPF: {13EC55CF-D993-475B-9ACA-F4A384957956} (Controller Class) - [url]https://beta.windowsonecare.com/install/cli/0.6.0692.10/WinSSWebAgent.CAB[/url]
O16 - DPF: {6414512B-B978-451D-A0D8-FCFDF33E833C} (WUWebControl Class) - [url]http://update.microsoft.com/windowsupdate/v6/V5Controls/en/x86/client/wuweb_site.cab?1120161832768[/url]
O16 - DPF: {6E32070A-766D-4EE6-879C-DC1FA91D2FC3} (MUWebControl Class) - [url]http://update.microsoft.com/microsoftupdate/v6/V5Controls/en/x86/client/muweb_site.cab?1126128896531[/url]
O17 - HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Tcpip\Parameters: Domain = Bloo.local
O17 - HKLM\Software\..\Telephony: DomainName = Bloo.local
O17 - HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Tcpip\..\{424C3079-B23E-4ACF-9161-61A332E768F3}: NameServer = 65.192.104.2,65.192.104.3
O17 - HKLM\System\CS1\Services\Tcpip\Parameters: Domain = Bloo.local
O18 - Protocol: msnim - {828030A1-22C1-4009-854F-8E305202313F} - "C:\PROGRA~1\MSNMES~1\msgrapp.dll" (file missing)
O23 - Service: MSMPSVC - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows OneCare Live\Antivirus\MSMPSVC.exe" -n 4 (file missing)
O23 - Service: NVIDIA Display Driver Service (NVSvc) - NVIDIA Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
O23 - Service: TiVo Beacon (TivoBeacon2) - TiVo Inc. - C:\Program Files\Common Files\TiVo Shared\Beacon\TiVoBeacon.exe

I've had good luck in the past with PNY....again...back to the little $ I have for computer parts....and at $10 for 512mb....who can complain?

Well...you're temp is fine based on what the BIOS says. The log looks benign to me, with my "I'm not Budfred" disclaimer.

You've been crashing for a year and have suspected RAM all along. Buy some.

EDIT: I just read the last line there in your post. Do what you want, and what you can. Me...I prefer to pay once.

I think I'll go ahead and get the ram....its only $30 for 1.5gb...not bad. I can't afford Crucial...unfortunately. But I will monitor temps more closely. I'll post back in a month or so to let you know if the new ram works.

Thanks for all your hlep!

Good Luck.

How's Kansas this time of year?

Thanks.

Its starting to get cold now. First frost last night....have the furnace on now...and wearing coats [jackets for us fattys]. Got cold real quick...but the leaves haven't started to change yet. Really windy. lol

Just thought I'd chime in and just say that the 200MHz thing is fine. And if MemTest86 says your RAM is good, that's good enough for me. PQI is decent RAM, PNY is pretty good RAM, but of course the truly excellent stuff is Crucial & Corsair & Kingston (and Patriot is getting better all the time).

Hmmm... beta software, problems since you first built... makes it kind of difficult to track down after all this time, but I do remember another thread once where SP2 for WinXP was causing all sorts of problems, including overheating. It was an odd problem, but it turned out to be SP2! Very strange. I still can't over that one... Anyway, downgrading to SP1a fixed things. I wonder if a trip to the Windows Update site would help in this case? Just a thought...

Kansas.

Amazing the stuff you can learn from a HJT log and traceroute/whois.

Got home tonight, to find a lovely bsod.

0x0000008E (0xC0000005, 0x80323EB6, 0xEC1EA96C, 0x00000000)

IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
0X0000000A (0X0000001C, 0X00000002, 0X00000001, 0X80520CE7)

IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
0X0000000A (0X000000A3, 0X000000FF, 0X00000000, 0X8053101C5)

Got the first one twice.

Download MEMTEST86 (http://www.majorgeeks.com/Memtest86_d1247.html) or MEMTEST86+ (http://www.majorgeeks.com/Memtest86_d4226.html) and check that memory. The 86+ is newer and supposed to be better at memory fault detection. Either way, let the tests run for a long time (hours) and you'll find out if the RAM is your issue.

Sorry to hear about the issue. Sorrier still to tell you I've had that error before and, in my cases, it turned out to be memory. Have you exceeded whatever warrantee you may have gotten?

EDIT: I went back and checked the link at the start of your thread for the memory information. Assuming the link is correct, the memory is warranteed for life. That's good. Let's see what MEMTEST says.

Also check your BIOS, make sure you're running the latest version (or if any updates have addressed this problem).