I have an HP Officejet 7130. Costs 500 bucks. Has separate cartriges and printheads. Does everything and prints incredible detail. So far I think it costs me about 50 cents for every page I print!!!!!!!! It just keeps costing and costing and costing . . . . . . .

It has the HP14 smart cartriges. They remember when I install them and shut down my printer 18 months later. Then I have to pay HP $50 for permission to use MY printer again (ie. buy new cartriges even when the old ones are still almost full).

You don't get many pages from one cartrige!!! I wanted to refill my cartriges to save money. My printer is programmed to make my life difficult if I do this. I have to turn off ink level monitoring to use refilled cartriges. The manual warns that if I run out of ink, the printheads will be damaged. I ran out of black ink after just a couple hundred pages (or maybe something is plugged). It really caught me by surprise. After refilling again, the symptoms are not at all what I would expect with a damaged printhead.

After 2 full days of cleaning and following the HP troubleshooting procedures and over 6 hours on-line with HP technical support, they have'nt given me enough information to even guess what the real problem is. The phone support is even worse.

Their suggestions:
1) I should only use OEM HP ink cartriges.
2) I could buy a new HP printhead ($35 plus shipping) and see if that fixes the problem.
3) I should take it to an authorized HP service center. There is nothing I can do to fix it. (You mean I can't clean out a plugged filter!!! :mad: )

Can anyone give me some real help?

Would you describe the printing problem?

I've a d135 that also uses the 14s...

If you, indeed, ran out of black ink the chances are you will need to replace the print head. Once the ink has drained from the head, I don't know of any way to replace it to get it flowing once again...

There's a button battery on the printer's motherboard. Removing this on mine for a few minutes and then replacing has allowed me to use expired carts...

:cool: Your battery tip may be the $100 answer! :) :) :) That's how much I've spent on cartriges so far. I will try it in 6 months when these cartriges EXPIRE, or sooner depending on your answer to the next question:

If I remove the battery, will my printer also forget that my expired ink cartriges are empty, and start monitoring ink usage again?

Everyone (who wants to sell me something) says that the chip on the cartrige keeps track of the ink levels.

Does the printer forget anything else when you take out the battery?

I'll know in a few days (maybe) if replacing the ink in the printhead can fix the problem. I'm getting an Ink-Tek refill kit that is supposed to contain tools for doing this. According to HP, my manifold could also be damaged, and of course, this can only be fixed by an authorized HP service center!

FYI: If you didn't already know, holding "#" and "7" for about 5 seconds (until the message is displayed) while plugging in the power causes the IDS to reprime itself. This had a temporary positive effect. This was the most valuable bit of information I got at the expense of many many hours of on-line chat with several HP technictions!

OK, now the problem detail:
When it ran out, black text started printing in dark magenta and dark blue in alternating paragraphs. About 50 pages of text were printed this way. I thought it was a problem with the source data. Then I printed a self test report. The black text was printed black and the black solid areas were printed in gray with some black streaks.

After soaking the printhead nozzles in printhead cleaner for 24 hours, I refilled the cartrige and this helped for a few pages. I printed a solid black page which started out black, then printed in streaks of black and gray, then solid gray. After resting it could print a few lines of black text, then gray. Removing and replacing the printhead had a temporary positive effect, as did priming the IDS. This benefit became smaller with each itteration. Now it prints very little black, mostly gray or light gray, and sometimes no black ink at all. When the ink does get there it prints OK without streaks. Not at all what I would expect if the resistors in the nozzles were burned up!

It appears that almost no ink is being drawn out of the cartrige. The printhead tower appears dry and there appears to be almost no black ink in the plate that sits between the cartriges and the printheads. I think this plate is what they call the "manifold", but I couldn't get HP to confirm that, or tell me anything about how the ink gets from the cartrige to the printhead.

At first, I would occasionally get the "Bad Printhead" error message, but in the last several hours of troubleshooting, I have'nt gotten any more error messages on the printer. Occasionally my computer returns "Print request failed".

How can I know if my manifold is damaged (if that is even possible)? I was able to backflush it with some water, so I don't think it is plugged.

Addendum:
I was using a HP cartrige refilled twice with ink from Atlantic Inkjet. They said it was formulated specifically for my HP14 cartriges, but it came in a bottle marked only "Color: Black". Not even a catalog number. I wonder how they know its the right bottle. Do you know anything about Atlantic Inkjet? It looks like the same ink --- it's black, it's liquid, it dissolves in water??????????

I was originally going to buy a d135 or d145, but by the time I was ready to buy I couldn't find them anymore. When I found the 7130 I thought: "Wow, this is even better!" I didn't know it was very cleverly programmed to suck my wallet dry and eat up all my free time just to keep it running! I found this out 18 months after I bought it. This can't be legal! Do you know of a forrum to discuss the legal issues of this?

Have you ever run out of ink? I hope your experience was'nt as bad as mine.

For everyone who wants nice prints no matter how much it costs, you can't do much better than the Officejet 7130. As long as you keep the money flowing to HP the way they recommend the performance is outstanding!!!!!!!

You're right about the prints! Nearly everyone I show photos from my d135 asks if they were really done on a printer. In fact, that was the main reason I purchased it. A client printed me up a couple of photos and I was sold...

As to where the monitoring actually is achieved, the jury is still out. Rumor has it that there's a chip in the cartridge that contains the expiry date. However, if that were so, why when I remove the battery is it not able to keep me from printing. I think it is with the Epsons that there's some sort of chip that can be reprogrammed...but I'm not finding this true with the HPs.

I did lose a black print head and it cost me somewhere around $35.00... The secret to these inkjets is to be sure to print something in color at least every couple of days.

Curiosity had me opening up the printhead to try and determine why the bugger would not just allow ink to flow from the ink cart...still not sure. But, when it was dry inside (ink drained out) it just would not prime/reload...

Unfortunately, I wasn't paying too much attention as to the sequence of events when I pulled the button battery. I believe that I disconnected the USB and had previously removed the HP software.

I was being allowed to print with the expired carts and the display had a zeroed out date line. It does show the proper date now that I reinstalled the HP software so I could scan...however, both carts are refilled and with expired dates and printing without a hitch...

If you decided you want to get creative and a bit more meticulous about the procedure...please let me know what you discover about the button battery removal and the sequence of events...

HI

The OJ 7130 works on TIJ 3 Technology where the ink catridge would stop automatically after the catridge has crossed the expiry date. These printers also use print heads which are usually placed under the catridge, now the printheads cannot be kept dry and it always should have ink in them, the prinheads tends to get spoiled if hard dry ink gets into the printheads (normally after expiry of catridge the ink tends to get solid), that's the reason to prevent hard ink from entering the reservouir the catridge stops working. What you can do is perform a self test ( print a test page) and you will get the status of every printhead, if by any chance if the result says " IDS Failure" then you will have to get the printhead replaced. TIJ-3 tech is used in the Oj 7100 series and the D Series OJ's. HP has also been suied on this issue and they have got away with it. no use

:D If you run out of ink your printhead can be saved!!!!!!


InkTek makes a refill kit that includes tools for replacing the ink in the printhead and tools for removing the excess air from the printhead. After following their procedure, it prints like new again! You can get it at the following places: http://store.yahoo.com/4inkjets/hprefillkits.html and http://www.inksell.com/hpoj7130.html. For $10.95 you can fix your printhead AND refill your cartrige twice. A big savings over following HP's advice.

Well, I just ran out of black ink again :mad: after 445 pages of text. HP says I should get 830 pages from the black cartrige. I get 445 pages from a very full cartrige plus the 5ml I put into the printhead. At least I won't have to spend the next 2 weeks wondering if it will cost me $200 to get it fixed! :) It's still a lot easier if you can refill just the cartrige before the printhead runs dry.

I think I know how the ink gets into the printhead, but this is mostly speculation.

I tried to force water into the printhead tower with almost 100 psi and it would not let any in, so I think there is a valve where the ink enters the printhead that stays closed most of the time. Can you verify this if you still have your busted printhead? Water flows freely through the manifold. There is a cylindrical part in the manifold for each color. I think these contain pistons or diaphrams for sucking the ink from the cartrige. Then gravity moves the ink to the printhead tower. When the printhead wants more ink, it opens the valve to let more in.

The printhead maintains a vacuum inside at all times. There is an air bladder inside (I think there are actually 2) to help keep the pressure stable. From reading the HP whitepapers, I know that when the ink is blasted from the nozzle, a meniscus forms at the opening of the nozzle, and the surface tension of the ink sucks more ink into the nozzle as the meniscus flattens. It makes sense that this would create a vacuum inside the printhead. If the printhead runs dry there can be no meniscus at the nozzle openings, and air can freely enter through the nozzles, destroying the vacuum.

It would be nice if the printer would just stop when there is no more ink at the printhead tower, but then HP would probably sell a lot fewer replacement printheads! When I had dried ink in my magenta nozzles that the cleaning function didn't fix, they told me I needed to buy a new printhead. When I ran out of black ink, they told me I needed to take it to an authorized HP service center.

I still have a question about the button battery. When you remove the battery and replace it, the printer should forget its volitol memory. HP says that the chip on the cartrige keeps track of the ink level, but I don't think this is true (and they have'nt exactly been honest about other things) because there is no battery for the cartrige chip when you take it out. I think the chip is just a ROM with a serial number and last install date. So when you put the battery back (and it has forgotten that the cartrige is expired), does it also forget that you have used the ink in that cartrige? (ie. if immediately after the battery swap you turn ink level monitoring back on, does it show that the cartrige is full again, and therefore you would have a warning before the printheads run dry?)

Have you used any cartriges more than 18 months after the last install date?

You can buy replacement chips (single use, reprogrammable, and auto-reset) to put on the cartrige to make it like new again. So far the only supplier I've found that I trust is rediculously expensive --- a distributor for HP. Most are in China. There must be a hundred suppliers of smartchips for Epsen in the US, but I could only find one for HP.

"I think the chip is just a ROM with a serial number and last install date"
I remember someone reporting some time back that they could get the printer to continue using the cartridge if they set back the PC's date to an earlier time.
This made the printer think that the cartridge still had some time to go before it was past its use-by date.

...the prinheads tends to get spoiled if hard dry ink gets into the printheads (normally after expiry of catridge the ink tends to get solid), that's the reason to prevent hard ink from entering the reservouir the catridge stops working.Ranjit, this sounds like a quote from a customer service reply manual... :)

The only reason my printhead was destroyed was from insufficient usage. I've found that the ink will dry in the heads due to inactivity. This was true even if the cart had plenty of time before expiration. That is why I routinely print a color page every other day.

I just picked up on this: http://www.smartchipsolutions.com/

Haven't had a chance to really check this out...if you do, please let me know what you find...

The OJ 7130 works on TIJ 3 Technology

I spent over 2 hrs hunting for TIJ 3 at the HP site and found nothing. Do you have a link?

HP has also been suied on this issue and they have got away with it. no use

I think this is just incredible! Do you have a link to the legal case? I was totally clueless for the first 18 months that I owned the printer that an ink cartrige could expire and stop the printer. I found the information burried in fine print in the "CAUTION" statement for the ink. Why would anyone over 5 feel a need to read a warning statement about ink, and what does this have anything to do with expiration dates anyway? Is'nt this the kind of marketing deception that people go to jail for?

if by any chance if the result says " IDS Failure" then you will have to get the printhead replaced

Actually, if the ink dries in the nozzles you will get "IDS Failure". The "Clean Printheads" function may help some, but if it has dried too long then manual cleaning is required. It is a very touchy machine. I have had "IDS Failure" and "Bad Printhead" errors many times and there is absolutely nothing physically wrong with the printhead or the IDS. You need to print all the colors at least once a week, and it has been very cleverly programmed to make your life difficult if you don't use fresh OEM cartriges whenever the printer asks for them.

As for hard ink clogging up the printhead; there is a filter in the cartrige, another filter where the ink enters the manifold, another filter in the printhead tower, and another filter between the internal reservoir and the nozzles. I would have to see it happen before I would believe it!

Not that old ink won't gell and harden, I know it does, but HP has a big financial incentive to exaggerate these claims. If your printer is'nt recycling fresh ink before this happens, it's sitting idle way too long anyway.

It's a really touchy machine. If it sits idle too long, it's going to clog up no matter how fresh the cartrige is. As long as you keep it happy, it's about as perfect as a printer can get.

MY friends works with the printing division of HP and i have gathered all these info from him :). TIJ-3 technology well is the technology where the printers use a printhead and a catridge over them, as far as i know they stopped the TIJ-3 technology printers and then they moved to the GEN-X technology which is currently being followed, ( they use regionalised catridges which are mapped to certain zones). Regarding the link to the legal case, i am sorry i don't have any, it was told to me by my friend.

@sburtchin at times you can manually clean the printheads with a moist cloth and it may work..but not always..IDS Failures happens mostly when air enters the printhead..

Here's a link explaining the TIJ 3 technology:

http://www.hp.com/oeminkjet/reports/techpress_11_3.pdf

Information regarding the class action lawsuit can be accessed by doing a Google search. Not much detail in the reports though...

In my case, I left the printer sit too long and the nozzles dried up in the magenta printhead. No amount of soaking in water (per HP) or running the printer's cleaning routine would clear the clog. I wasted about 80% of 2 new cartriges (1 black, 1 color) trying. Printhead cleaner from Atlantic Inkjet did the trick.

HP says that air in the manifold or printhead causes IDS failure, and only HP can fix it. Plugged nozzles cause IDS failure too, and all you have to do is dissolve the plug.

I think once air gets into the printhead you have to replace the ink and remove the air before it will work again.

they could get the printer to continue using the cartridge if they set back the PC's date to an earlier time
I hope this is true. But you have to set back the date before it expires! I tried setting back the date with expired carts and the printer just laughed at me.

Before I put in the new carts, I set the computer date forward a year. I verified that the printer showed the advanced date. It still set the expiration date 18 months from the actual date I installed them. :mad: It's a smart son of a bitch! I think it must have snuck out over the internet to see if my computer was lying.

I think the problem with setting the computer forward or backward doesn't work because somehow the printer's motherboard has already locked things in and it is being maintained by the battery. You might want to try pulling the button battery as I did and see what happens...

Both the carts I'm printing from right now are expired, refilled a couple of times and still going strong. I cannot remember if I pulled the carts and then pulled the battery or just left them in and pulled the battery... You might want to experiment both ways if you're up to it...

Yep, same thing here with the fried printhead...inactivity cost me $35

Your explanation of the printheads certainly makes sense as to why they cannot be filled without the assistance of the device you mention.

If you are printing so many text or black pages, I would think you might be better going with a laser printer. I picked up a leaseback LaserJet 5 from a local company here in Minneapolis that keeps right on cranking...it's a workhorse...I have not had a problem in 3 years.

Leaseback? A company here leases computer equipment to folks like American Express and then puts them on the market when the leases are up, or the company upgrades to newer equipment. 3 years ago I was picking up Hitachi 21" monitors for $250... If you have such a place around you there are some great deals to be had...

If I can find the space to put it, I will seriously consider a laser printer. Printing on the inkjet has turned out to be much more expensive than I ever imagined.

I think Smart Chip Solutions is the place that I liked. The descriptions of their products (they have all three kinds of chips) left me with some dangling questions about which kind would be the most economical for me, and if I would even save at all over buying new HP cartriges every 18 months.

I sent my questions with their "Contact Us" button. It's been about a month and no reply. I'm a little less than excited about finding out how something works after I buy it (again).

I'll get creative with the battery if I ever need to and let you know what I can figure out. For now I have about 7 more months before these carts expire if they last that long. I started another thread about problems getting black ink to go into the sponge.

HP says there is firmware for the printheads that regulates drop size depending on temperature, humidity, etc. I think firmware gets forgotten if the battery dies (or is pulled).

HP says there is firmware for the printheads that regulates drop size depending on temperature, humidity, etc. I think firmware gets forgotten if the battery dies (or is pulled).Don't think so...mine has been printing with the expired carts after doing the battery pull out and the images are exquisite...:)

I am new to this forum, but have just run into the expired cartridge message for the first time. can you tell me where the button battery is, and how do I get to it? any evidence yet that removing and replacing this will erase factory presets?

Which HP do you have?

Oh, and Welcome tohttp://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif Forums!

It's an Officejet 7130.

A quick look at the 7130 and it looks almost identical to my d135 except for the integrated card reader. I would look for the motherboard on the far left side after raising the top which moves the ink carts to the center. I didn't have to remove anything to get at the button battery as in some of the reviews I read.

I'm trying to remember how I removed it... :confused: I think I used a long nosed surgical tweezers...

Please let me know how you fare...

Hmmm hmmm hmmm....

Well, you were right. Left hand side, very hard to get to :( , and long "stamp" tweezers did the trick. Cleared the date in the machine, but it appears there is a date embedded in the ink cartridge(s) as they still show expired, but the printer is trying to print.

I am getting the "bad printhead you better replace it" message, so I guess a cleaning kit is in my future. Thanks for the tips.

If I find anything notable not already mentioned, I'll post it here.

For those who want to do the battery pull on the Officejet 7130, it's easy to see the battery if you first remove the small medium-gray pannel on the front left corner of the base. First, unplug the power and USB cables, then lift up the scanner as if to replace the cartriges. There is a flap on this panel that extends into the mouth of the printer. Pull this toward the center to release it, then hinge the pannel outward about 45 degrees on two pins at the front left corner, then push it left to disengage the pins. The battery is on a little board in the front left corner. The easy solution is to just slide a piece of credit card between the battery and the spring clip that holds it, breaking the circuit. Actually removing it could be risky!

In a few days I will have to do the battey pull myself, or something else. Whether the cartriges and/or printheads should be removed during this procedure, and/or full reset, I don't know. First I will try getting a new black cartrige and do a round robin with 3 of them. I know this works on some older HP printers, but the 7130 is probably too smart. I'll report back what I find.

I found this on another forum. Besides providing a solution for internally plugged heads, it also explains how the ink gets into the heads:So....i decided to take a printhead apart. I found out that inside the printhead assembly there is another ink reservoir and two flaps that hinge on the upper part of the printhead and in between them there is a little bag that inflates and deflates. The trick to the printhead is that when the bag inflates, the ink valve opens, allowing ink to "fall" or drip from the ink cartridge. This "air bag" mechanism actually works like a valve. The valve is needed because otherwise ink would keep dripping out of the printhead. When ink is used for printing, there is a vacuum created inside the printhead, which pulls air into the bag and inflates it...opening the ink valve. Because of the vacuum, ink is pulled into the printhead and the air bag deflates, closing the ink valve. Simple and smart.
Now, the good stuff.... how to make your printhead work really nice again. This is what i did to all ym printheads... (well...execpt the cyan one that i broke doing other stuff to it)...
First...how to take a printhead apart... use a small tip flat screw driver and pry between the round part that faces the front of the printer when the printhead is in the printer. This part looks like is on some kind of a rail and helps seat the printhead in the printer. This part is located underneath the printhead lift lever, when the lever is down. So when the lever is down, resting on the top of the printhead, you will have to locate the "pipe like" looking object under the lever handle. Hope you will find it...this is my best to try and explain without a picture. After the "pipe like" object is out, you will have three side retaining clips , two on the sides of the printhead and one on the opposite side to the "pipe like" object. Pry GENTLY on these one by one while SLOWLY trying to take the upper part off.
I have taken each printhead apart and slowly rinsed everything in warm water, the part with the bag and also the ink reservoir in the printhead. I had to insist a lot especially with the balck printhead that had some "dirt" in it. I also let the reservoir stay sunken in hot water for about five minutes to unclog the nozzles.
Aftwer doing the proper wash, i have filled a siringe with 5 ml of ink for the printhead in process and filled the reservoir. Do not fill the reservoir all the way to the top. 5 ml will fill the reservoir about 2/3. That is enough.
After putting ink in the reservoir place it on a thick paper towel and attach the top part of the printhead. Make sure you place the rubber seal back in place before you attach the top back to the reservoir. After that reattach the "pipe like" object and your printhead should be back to it's original shape.
The printhead will now be leaking ink and you will have to use some toilet paper folded about 10 times and put the printhead with the ink nozzles on it, to suck ink out of it and create vacuum inside. when you lift the printhead look if ink is still dripping. if it is, repeat the toilet paper procedure.
Before replacing the printhead in the printer, clean the copper contacts on the printhead and on the printer cart with some ear clinning swabs (that's what i used :) ).
I have done all this to all the printheads and my printer works like new.

My second set of cartriges have expired, so I decided to do some experimenting to find out how things work. I set my computer clock back 2 years and synched my printer clock. No amount of swiching out cartriges and changing dates would make those expired cartriges work again. It even kept track of which ones I had turned off ink level monitoring for. I bought 2 new black ones because the black ones are really difficult to get fully refilled (you have to let the foam settle), and I go through them quicker. I swapped in the new black ones to see if it would forget the original cartrige, but no dice (some older HP models would only remember the last two). Then I set the date current. No surprise: the new cartriges did not expire. I have read many reports that the "d" series could be fooled by resetting the computer's clock, but not this printer.

So then I did the battery pull. I removed the cartriges first because my printer came without cartriges installed (but I don't think it really matters). Next time I'll just leave the cartriges in. After pulling both wires from the back, I slipped a thin piece of plastic under the battery clip for exactly 60 seconds (as one person claimed was sufficient). No change. Then I repeated the procedure for exactly 10 minutes. The pannel showed "Jan 00 00 00:00a", the cartriges were no longer expired, and it forgot that I had turned off ink level monitoring for one black and one color cartrige, but it still remembered the amount of ink remaining in each cartrige. Then I repeated the procedure for exactly one hour. The results were the same as for the 10 minute battery pull.

To get the correct time to display on the printer, open the Officejet Director, then click Settings > Director Settings > Date/Time tab > Set Device Date and Time to Match PC. Just to be sure to get the best quality prints, I then did a head alignment and color calibration as this info is probably kept in volitol memory.


Conclusions:

1) There is an internal clock that cannot be reset except by pulling the battery. The time you see on the display is just this internal clock plus an offset.

2) Each cartrige has a chip with a unique electronic signature.

3) When a cartrige is installed, the date from the internal clock is kept in volitol memory along with the electronic signature of the cartrige and whether or not you are monitoring ink levels for that cartrige. Eighteen months later this printer will report the cartrige is expired.

4) Expiration dates are calculated independent of the dates shown on the printer at either install time or expiration.

5) This printer can remember the signatures of at least 4 pairs of cartriges. Since not much memory is needed, I suspect it can remember a lot of them. If anyone knows how many, please post the info.

6) 10 minutes is a reasonably short time to interrupt the battery and seems to be sufficient. 1 minute is not sufficient. There is probably nothing more to be gained after 10 minutes.

7) The amount of ink remaining in each cartrige is stored in non-volitol memory on the cartrige chip.

8) Once the ink is exhausted in a cartrige, you can no longer monitor the ink level for that cartrige without replacing the chip (a special chip is required for using a chip resetter). So far I have not been able to find these chips in the US except direct from HP at horribly inflated prices.

9) I expect that in 18 months my cartriges will expire again (this is speculation).

On my d135 I pulled the battery from the motherboard, I would say, at least 2 years ago. The panel on the printer display reads "Jan 00 00 00:00a" and I have let it do so ever since. I have refilled my expired carts in direct proportion to my photo printing to ensure they are pretty much always "topped off." I have been able to print with the expired carts since the battery pull without interruption.

I have not attempted to sync dates with my computer, nor have I messed with resetting the printer's date. I am content to keep filling and printing with my expired carts.

One of these days when I'm in a curious mood, I will experiment and document my findings. It would be interesting to know why the printer can't "see" the expired carts!

7) The amount of ink remaining in each cartrige is stored in non-volitol memory on the cartrige chip.

Close, but no actual ink is measured...the amount of ink used is calculated based on the initial nominal amount the cartridge is supposed to contain.

8) Once the ink is exhausted in a cartrige, you can no longer monitor the ink level for that cartrige without replacing the chip (a special chip is required for using a chip resetter). So far I have not been able to find these chips in the US except direct from HP at horribly inflated prices.

Almost all printer manufacturers do the same or similar, because cartridges are where they make their money. At least HP makes the chips available, even if they charge an outrageous price for them, some other manufacturers don't even do that. I guess they figure the price based on what is the expected lifespan of the printer and what money they would lose to refilled cartridges under average use conditions...

On my d135 I pulled the battery. . . . at least 2 years ago. The panel on the printer display reads "Jan 00 00 00:00a" and I have let it do so ever since. . . . I have been able to print with the expired carts since the battery pull without interruption.Mine displayed same after the battery pull, and did not advance until I synched with computer. I can only speculate now, but I think the printer's "internal" clock initializes at "0" and will not advance until it receives a trigger. Hence why the display does not advance. Each time you boot the printer, it compares the current "internal" time to the remembered "internal" time at cartrige install. If the clock is stalled, then the age of the cartrige is always "0". Anyway, I like seeing the clock on the printer, so if I have to slide that strip of plastic under the battery clip for 10 minutes every 18 months I won't cry too loud!:D This is one I might have to wait 18 more months to know the answer, unless someone else can post the answer. One thing I am pretty sure about now though, is that the time you see on the display has nothing directly to do with expiration dates.

I have refilled my expired carts in direct proportion to my photo printing to ensure they are pretty much always "topped off."I tried this for a while, but I found myself worrying a lot (if I was "topping off" often enough), and three times I messed-up and let my black (twice) and then the cyan printheads run dry. Refilling the color cartrige is easy, and the the black cartrige is difficult, but refilling those printheads is a real pain!:mad: (a proper analogy would violate the forum rules) To ease the burden, I have an electronic diet scale sitting next to my printer that weighs to the nearest gram. The two new black cartriges I got the other day each weigh 71 grams. When the black gets down to 33 grams it is EMPTY (and then you have to service the printhead too). When I fill the color really full it weighs 68 grams. I won't have the need (hope, hope,...) to ever buy another color cartrige, so if anyone knows the weight of the color cartrige as packaged, please add to this thread (I'm also curious to know the weights when the printer says the black and color are empty). When I ran the cyan printhead dry the color cartrige weighed 38 grams (cyan empty, magenta almost empty, yellow half full). If I think I might be running low, I just pop them out and weigh them. If the black gets near 35 grams or the color gets near 45 grams, it's time to replace. I have 4 black and 2 color cartriges bought on 3 different dates, so I don't know if the empty and full weights will be exactly the same for all as HP is free to change the design at any time (mine are all c5011d & c5010d --- there are also c5011an and c5010an which hold less ink)

It would be interesting to know why the printer can't "see" the expired carts!I think it does "see" them, but as per my speculation above, yours will never expire. I will have to wait 18 months to see if mine expire. Then there is the absolute expiry date as HP claims "Cartrige expires 18 months after date of installation if installed prior to "install by" date on package. If installed after such date, cartrige will expire in less than 18 months." I'm printing now with a Sep 2004 "install by" date cartrige, so I can't even guess how the printer determines this absolute limit, or maybe HP is just blowing smoke.

Close, but no actual ink is measured...the amount of ink used is calculated based on the initial nominal amount the cartridge is supposed to contain.I have read reports that it is calculated based solely on raw page count, and other reports that this calculation is based on a drop counter. I would guess the drops leaving the printhead, but some of the reports imply that it measures the ink as it leaves the cartrige.

Think about it a second...to actually count drops would require some type of circuitry around the area of the cartridge where the ink exits. It would also be an added expense...

Nope, it is a purely calculated number...much cheaper and easier to manufacture.

Exactly. I should have put more thought into my wording. I don't want to mislead as in some reports I've read. Any type of physical drop count would add hardware expense. Counting drops leaving the printhead would require laboratory equipment. I never really bought into the "counting of drops leaving cartrige", or the "raw page count" as the calculations track the ink used much too well for such a simplistic approach.

The most likely solution IMHO would be a hardware counter on the motherboard that counts the firing pulses (= drops) sent to each printhead. Or it could just count clock cycles while the printheads are energized. Then the printer's CPU could use this info to make a fairly accurate calculation of the amount of ink used. I don't work for HP, so this is just speculation.

Clock cycle counting is probably going to be the easiest and cheapest way to do it...since it (printer's cpu) is already doing it (counting) for other purposes, so adding a little more code to get that number wouldn't really make much of a difference.

Overall, I think that printer manufacturers overly complicate ink/cartridge related items. It is mostly about money...this is a way of making sure that they (manufacturers) have a steady income. In a way it really hurts business, because it doesn't really create 'brand loyalty'...contrary to what the bean counters may think...it creates brand 'slaves'.

I prefer HP printers because for a long time they had the easiest to install/most likely to work with most features intact printers for operating systems other than Windows (read...Linux). Of course they had decent quality, good speed and several other desirable features...but now most of the other manufacturers have at least some models that will work in Linux, so if/when I need to go shopping for a new printer, I will be looking at one that has the least hassles with cartridges.

I've been using the same black and tricolor ink cartridges for about 3 years in my HP7130. I bought a $17 refill kit from Costco years ago. Works perfectly, I do my full color business cards on glossy paper with it. The "ink gauge" in the 7130 can be defeated by pressing and releasing at the same the two left and right arrow keys, immediately type in 7,8,9 which will give the menu for "Ink Gauge Off?", type in 1 for yes to turn off the Black ink gauge. Do it again and type in 4,5,6 to turn off the color ink gauge. After that, even though the printer still says you have no ink, it will allow you to use refilled cartridges. After learning the hard way about dry print heads, I now set a two month reminder in the calendar in my cell phone to remind me when to top off the ink cartridges. Once I found a note on the net about fixing inop printheads by soaking them right side up in a shallow dish on a paper towel soaked with Windex (for the ammonia content). Never worked for me but I guess it might clean out the jets if the problem is near the outside. For me, the printhead was bad deep inside apparently.
The 7130 is a bit strange in some aspects, never used the fax since I'm on cell phone only. Never used the ocr, just never needed it. The copy, scanning and printing is all I've used. Love the double sided printing. Used the copy feeder a few times, shocking how well it worked, just like a big Xerox. Looked up on the net how to clean the underside of the copier glass, looks like major surgery, that's a major fault. I've used all kinds of printers over the last 25 years and I'll keep buying HP for the duration. I've seen way too many problems from the other brands whether in home use or corporate use. I could write a book on those experiences.

I've turned the ink gauges off in the past, yet been unable to print once the expiry date was past...how are you avoiding the dreaded "date?"

After learning the hard way about dry print heads . . . about fixing inop printheads by soaking them . . . on a paper towel soaked with Windex . . . Never worked for me but I guess it might clean out the jets if the problem is near the outside. For me, the printhead was bad deep inside apparentlyThis is surprising because I have plugged mine really bad a couple of times and recovered (ie. months without printing, printing about 40 pages of black text dry!!!). I can believe it is possible with the black, but the colors dissolve quickly no matter how long they have dried. However, I don't think there is any head that can't be recovered. See my post #23 (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showpost.php?p=308193&postcount=23) in this thread.


Looked up on the net how to clean the underside of the copier glass, looks like major surgery, that's a major fault.Please post a link to those instructions. I would love to have that for my collection of troubleshooting info.


I've used all kinds of printers over the last 25 years and I'll keep buying HP for the duration. I've seen way too many problems from the other brands . . .Wow! It's good to finally hear something good said about HP printers. I've been feeling like a real sucker for buying this part-time boat anchor. Now I don't feel so bad knowing other brands are even worse.

I've turned the ink gauges off in the past, yet been unable to print once the expiry date was past...how are you avoiding the dreaded "date?"Ditto for me!!! Is there another way to do it besides the battery pull?

HP's support has sadly gone downhill recently.
At one time I would sing their praises - I had some excellent support from them, but since everything went HP/Compaq things have changed.

My suggestion isn't to do with your particular problem with the heads, but more to do with colour printing.

If you have a lot of colour work which isn't photos, then ditch the Inkjet and get a laser. The intiial cost is higher, and the toner cartridges are higher, but they do last a lot longer (3000 pages) so work out a lot cheaper.
It also means that you don't have to use the colour every day just to keep the heads clean!

I've found that Rapid Refill Ink, http://www.rapidrefillink.com/ is a good company. There are two of these stores near me and my printing is just as good as with the HP cartridges.

And I'm not being paid a cent to say that, either.

Mike

Hi Guys
I have been following this and other related threads for some time now. Great info!! My thanks to sburtchin and many others who wouldn't give up and busted a nut getting all this info to others.
I did most, if not all of what was suggested, in this and related threads.
( Exceptions; I didn't disconnect the button battery, as I have cartridges that are not yet expired and I have not completely disassembled the print heads )
I have; Thoroughly cleaned the manifold & the print heads ( maybe not enough yet:confused: ) and cleaned the ink cartridges as well.
I had gone from nothing coming out of the Magenta or Cya to getting almost a perfect print report.
There are small white horizontal lines across the Cya and the Magenta ... :confused:
My question is:
Do I need to do a print head and manifold cleaning again ?
Or are my printheads toast ?
I have spent so much time on this, as I am sure all of you have.. I am at the end of my rope
The only other easy thing I could try, is to replace the color printer cartridge but I really dont know if that will clear up this problem
Any insight would be greatly appreciated
Kind regards
Ed

What is your printer model and what cartrige number. If yours are HP14 printheads like mine, I would say sit them in a styrofoam bowl with a 1/8 inch deep puddle of straight household amonia for a few hours. From my own experience it seems nearly impossible to burn them out. If it is a cheaper printhead the clog might have caused a resister to burn up.

Sorry
I took for granted that you knew it was the same as yours #14 cart and the 7130x All in one printer.
I had already soaked them along with the manifold ( which I removed from the printer with a tork screw driver ... I will soak them again and see if I make any progress ... What a PITA this is .....
Again, hats off to you !! Your nick name should be Sherlock after all the work you have done trying to figure this out..
thanks
Kind regards
Ed

I had already soaked them along with the manifold (which I removed from the printer with a tork screw driver ... I will soak them again and see if I make any progress ... What a PITA this is .....
Again, hats off to you !!Thanks for all the compliments:)! My motivations are not entirely unselfish. I hope that others will want to follow my lead and also post how they solved their problems with this printer. My printer may someday have those problems too. If I did'nt do the research I would have had to throw this thing away because HP made it very clear that it could only be fixed by them (for about the same price as a new printer with mine in trade). I figure if I already have the information, why not put it here instead of in a private document. When I get around to it, I would like to consolidate all the important information from several threads and put it all in one place.

By the "manifold" I assume you are referring to the part of the carriage that sits between the printheads and the ink cartriges. I have not dissassembled that myself yet. I always grit my teeth and pray whenever working on this printer because I know any busted part is going to cost a significant fraction of the printer's total value to replace. If your only problem is streaking, I would say with certainty that the "manifold" would have nothing at all to do with it. If you could give a detailed explanation of how you dissassembled the manifold, that would be a very much appreciated addition to the knowledge base in this thread. I would not have had a clue how to dissassemble a printhead if not for a very generous person on another forum.

Also, could you describe what's inside the "manifold" and give your opinion of what it does and how it works?

Streaking is almost certainly a result of some problem with the nozzles - full or partial plug, physical damage, worn from thousands of pages, damaged resister, internal plug (unlikely unless something has caused the ink to jel inside the head - like no use for over a year, or incompatible replacement ink). To more thoroughly clean you could drain the ink from the head and replace with 5ml of amonia, then print several solid pages of that color (just the amonia - tape over the hole in the ink cartrige to avoid diluting the amonia with ink). Another possible cause could be dirty contacts. They must be incredibly clean! Even a fingerprint can wreak havok and cause all sorts of malfunctions.

Today I have some slight streaking in solid black areas, but totally unnoticeable in text and photos. This after printing dozens of pages with dry heads (according to HP they are instantly destroyed from overheating if the ink ever runs dry).

Ok I will write up something on the manifold, It was really pretty easy.....
Sadly, (unlikely unless something has caused the ink to jel inside the head - like no use for over a year
That was the case with the color ....:-(
I will just clean the print heads again and contacts and see what happens
Thanks again
Regards
Ed

hi i just bought an hp 7130 and come to find out im not the only one with problems all my color ink heads need to be replaced ... dont think soo lol gotta be a way to fix the problem im soaking them now in nail polish remover then going to put them back in in a few hours see what that does any help would be greatly appreciated i feel like hp is takeing advantage of people and ripping them off its sad!!!
Brian

The following may be basic to you all but this worked for me.
My HP 7130 is 4 years old now and I'm only on my 2nd set of ink carts. I replaced the carts earlier on once and then learned to refill them with a $17 ink refill kit. Putting refilled carts in an HP7130 doesn't convince the printer you've supplied more ink, it thinks the carts are still empty because it knows the serial number of the carts. Pressing the <> keys at the same time then hitting in succession 4,5,6 and a menu will come up asking if you want to turn off the ink gauge, yes you do. <> 7,8,9 for the other ink gauge. After that your ink carts can go dry when all of the ink is used. Problem is that dry print heads NEVER work again and they are $37 ea. in local stores IF they are in stock, they're always available over the net.
So now I've set a reminder in the calendar in my cellphone for once a month to top off the ink carts. Been doing that for about 3 years now. According to my test printout, my black and color ink carts were supposed to have expired two years ago. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Heard someone took out a class action lawsuit against hp because the expiry chip in the carts disables carts after a certain time period leaving whatever amount of unused ink still in the cart. I didn't follow up on it.

im soaking them now in nail polish remover . . . i feel like hp is takeing advantage of people and ripping them off its sad!!!
BrianYikes!!!:eek:

This is for sure a little late, but nail polish remover is pure acetone, which is great for dissolving plastics and resins - some of the things your print head is made of. The HP ink is water based. The colors dissolve readily in distilled water. Household amonia will dissolve the black if too dried for pure water.

Problem is that dry print heads NEVER work againNot true! Find the solution in this or one of my other threads about this printer.


I agree that HP is probably the worst offender, but all printer manufacturers probably rip us off to some extent. What is worse than the expiration date fiasco, is that this printer was designed to fail shortly out of warranty. Mine is now dead again, and this time I think I will have to tear it apart to fix it. After several hours of tinkering and getting different problems and errors on each attempt, the motor that works the parking station will not run now. These problems started when I put in a new ink cartrige. This printer really is a piece of crap!