hi

i cant even think of how to word this question to do a search , so maybe someone here can help -i want to test a couple open box mobos i bought by just hooking up to a power supply and monitor (put in a mem stick of course) and see if they post -is this ok to do? is a mobo supposed to be mounted inside a case for reasons other than the obvious? are the screwholes grounds? and case for grounding everything together?

dennis
okeefe58[AT]yahoo.com

-is this ok to do?
yes, we recommend builders do a barebones boot before installing into the case to make certain you can get it to POST.
is a mobo supposed to be mounted inside a case for reasons other than the obvious?
It protects the board from bending and striking things.
are the screwholes grounds?
no
The screws support the board and keep it from flexing when you plug items into the board. Fiber washers included with the case kits are to be put between the case and the mainboard to insulate the two from each other to prevent short circuits.

I munged your email address where I could to keep you from being deluged by spambots. Never post a live email address in public forums.

In a word you can't think of?

Try a "Barebones boot" (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/search.php?searchid=1313836)

No, you don't need a case, maybe a table.. ;)

PrntRhd,
Stop stepping on my toes! I'm NOT playing footsies with you!

Sorry Ted
:)

thanx guys -and for the munge and all

thanx guys -and for the munge and allThat just brought a smile to my face! :D

yeah -thanx again -i was unfamiliar with the term barebone test/boot -learning alot just reading thru this forum -I'm going to put in a new mobo/cpu in my pc for the first time when i feel i know everything/precautions i need to know -i just saw the post where he says he fried his mobo because forgot to put in standoffs -i'm going to use whats already there in my pc, and guess i'll see "standoffs" when i get in there -i take it it they're under mobo with fiberwashers inbetween standoffs and mobo--

Many of the newer motherboards do not use separate "washers" placed on the stand-offs. Some use what appear to be copper "grommets" that the screws tighten into. The important parts are to determine if your motherboard actually needs washers, and to make sure you do not have any "errant" stand-offs (i.e. wrongly placed where they could come into contact with the copper traces the motherboard uses to distribute electricity).

Try a "Barebones boot" (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/search.php?searchid=1313836)


The link shows Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
Problem with my connections ?
I could like to know about Barebones boot :)

Here's my spiel...

I would also suggest my canned spiel for initial building:

For new systems it would be wise to barebones boot the system initially. This is best done on a non-conductive surface such as a piece of cardboard on a table.

Connections from the case/power to the motherboard are accomplished outside of the case on the table.

Barebones is only the RAM, Video Card, Monitor, P/S 2 Keyboard...and of course the CPU>Heatsink>Fan...

See if you can make it through POST with this barebones approach...

Reboot, setting the BIOS to boot from floppy first...usually, the (0) choice, save and exit...shutdown.

If this worked add the floppy drive.

If the system booted again successfully, shutdown and reboot using a RAM tester such as: http://www.memtest86.com...these are self booting.

If all is well, shut down and add the harddrive. If the reboot is successful recognizing the harddrive, I then shutdown and reboot using a floppy with the Harddrive's diagnostics (downloaded from the manufacturer's site)...these are also self booting...

If all systems are go, proceed to add an optical drive capable of loading your operating system...

The concept is to load one hardware device at a time which provides for troubleshooting as well as assembly of the computer. If, at any time you encounter a no boot situation, the last hardware item you added is the problem.

Karthik,
It appears that you cannot link to a Search in these forums and have it last. No idea why. But typing in barebones boot in Search does work.

Just try this instead of the search:
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39685

It's Pete's sticky thread on the subject, first post. The procedure is the same.

Thanks Whyzman for giving brief introduction to it and to others also. :)

i'm going to use whats already there in my pc, and guess i'll see "standoffs" when i get in there -i take it it they're under mobo with fiberwashers inbetween standoffs and mobo

This is a standoff
http://www.aboveboardelectronics.com/hardware/spacer-standoff/images/product/HMA.jpg
They are screwed into the motherboard tray to create a space between the motherboard and the motherboard tray. A standard ATX motherboard only needs 9 of them installed to match the mounting holes in the motherboard. Screws will be installed through the motherboard and into the standoff to hold the motherboard in place. Fiber washers are not needed for ATX motherboards. The very old AT motherboards needed them so they were included in some screw packages for cases that supported AT motherboards.

There are also "clip-on" standoffs and newer plastic standoffs...

Clip-on standoffs have small "feet" that when pinched allow them to be positioned between two raised metal slots. Releasing the pinched feet will expand them into the slots.

Sorry I don't have a picture

hi whyzman and all -

well i finally got up the courage to start in on testing 939dualsata2/a64 4000+ to transfer into existing pc -all went well testing except the fan/heatsink that i transferred is running at 4500rpm when it used to run at 2200rpm -it is LOUD! kind of scary sounding -i then checked into fan control for this board -nada- then thought about making a rheostat fan controller and also saw a cpufan at radioshack that has a 3speed switch for $15. also read that it could cause the pc to beep low fan speed -i have a few days to decide what to do next, as i discovered my case is for micro atx and this is an atx board -about three inches longer-so i ordered this from newegg- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811147064 -it was $21. shipped this morning, then went up $3. since then -anyway it'll be here thurs. hopefully by thurs. night I'll have a new rig going with ebay parts to burn

p.s. whyzman -i resolved that cmos error no problem

all went well testing except the fan/heatsink that i transferred is running at 4500rpm when it used to run at 2200rpm

Did you clean of the old thermal pad or compound, and apply new compound when you reinstalled the Heatsink? It rather sounds as if the H/S is not seated correctly if the fan revs went up that far.

hi david -yes, i did all that, very carefully -spread thinly with credit card, it was actually a very even thin layer. heatsink is clip type. i was really stressing pulling down that lever(first time at all this), but its centered on there perfectly and cpu temp stayed at an even 91degrees-could you please explain how that could affect fan speed? (unless your saying high fan speed due to cpu overheating because of unadequate compound) fan is at 4600rpm from the second pc is turned on and stays there. i think what your saying wouldn't become apparent to pc for say 10 to 30 secs? if what your saying was the cause, wouldnt fan start off at normal speed, then go up to 4500rpm after some seconds?

i resolved that cmos error no problemHow did you accomplish that?

by clicking load bios default, then save and exit, which i think i read to try here -how are your electronic skills? do you know anything about making a rheostat fan controller? like what ohms,watts it should be? i know it should be 12volts, but that's about it. also, i was disappointed to find i couldn't get dual channel ddr working- i thought i had 2 identical 512 sticks, but i guess not. they're from different manufacturers, but otherwise the spec numbers are the same. anything on this whyzman? they even have to be from the same company?

91 degrees! I hope that that temperature is Fahrenheit not Celsius. Please check the temp again, and see what temperature scale is being used, if only for my peace of mind!
It could be that the fan controller( thermistor on the M/B) is not really working, or is the fan plugged into the chassis fan socket, rather that the sysfan socket.

fahrenheit of course -plug is where its supposed to be -are you going to explain your first post? I'll ask again -how can proper seating/compound change fan speed (unless you were saying chip overheating would cause fan speedup in a roundabout way)

David is pointing out that, indeed, if the fan is being controlled by the motherboard's thermistor reporting, the fan's RPMs would climb as the CPU heats up... If you've a "questionable" interface between the heatsink and CPU die, this would case an increase in die temp resulting in the ramping up of the fan's speed accordingly...

No need to really make your own potentiometer to control the fan's speed. Some fans have a "pot" attached for manual control such as this Thermaltake which I use on my older system (900mhz).

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/2005/dcfans/standard/a1214.htm

I realize the newer CPUs are using differently designed fans, heatpipes with fans, etc. You might want to consider something like the fan controller using the second link below where you can control all your fans...

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/2005/dcfans/smartfan/a202829.htm

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/2005/dcfans/drivebaymenu.htm

hi whyzman yeah, that's what i figured he was saying -I've been looking the last few hours at variable speed fans online, but I'm so short on bucks that i hate to spend money on something i already have (i.e. cpu fan & lots of electronic parts) i found a stereo speaker control in parts box. you know the big double rheostat kind. I'm sure its more than enough to do the job. haven't decided yet. but i do know I'm not living with a 4500rpm cpu fan speed. total overkill, not to mention the noise. i was looking around at some archive posts tonight, and saw some pop up from you way back when. you've been around quite awhile old timer! (i mean it in the nicest possible way, of course) got anything to contribute on my different manufacturers/same specs mem sticks not working in dual channel? any experience with this?

My suggestion would be to head on down to Radio Schack for a pot...

Hehe, yeah, been around a while... Love it here!

RAM's not my expertise...that's someone like saphalline's domain...

ohhh my dear whyzman? u hue?

whats going on here? at the the start of this post its said that the motherboard is insulated from the case and not grounded-I just took the motherboard off my old pc to use washers/screws/etc in the new case w new mobo/cpu -theres no washers or anything insulating the board from sheet metal case -its as grounded as grounded could be? 12 copper screws screwed right onto sheet metal (raised up punches where screws go so backs not touching) I installed new mobo with standoffs, but anyway you cut it, its grounded to sheet metal thru screws. its got to be ok cause its installed no different than old board, but i'm still afraid to turn it on--(cause of this thread)

disregard last post -its up and running so it doesnt matter now

An "errant" standoff is where problems occur... As pointed out, the newer motherboards are designed with a metal grommet that insulates the screw from coming into contact with the copper traces. An errantly placed standoff can, indeed, come into contact with the copper traces and cause a short...

Glad to know you're up and running! :)

This is a standoff
http://www.aboveboardelectronics.com/hardware/spacer-standoff/images/product/HMA.jpg
They are screwed into the motherboard tray to create a space between the motherboard and the motherboard tray. A standard ATX motherboard only needs 9 of them installed to match the mounting holes in the motherboard. Screws will be installed through the motherboard and into the standoff to hold the motherboard in place. Fiber washers are not needed for ATX motherboards. The very old AT motherboards needed them so they were included in some screw packages for cases that supported AT motherboards.

ATX motherboards do not need Fiber washers.

I installed new mobo with standoffs, but anyway you cut it, its grounded to sheet metal thru screws. Without belaboring the point, "grounding" in a DC circuit is a necessary feature...it completes a circuit. Grounding where it shouldn't be, creates a "short circuit," resulting in the electricity not reaching its intended destination...

The design of the AT motherboards put the copper traces (wiring) in jeopardy of becoming short circuited. If the standoff screws errantly touched the copper traces as they attempted to secure the motherboard there would be a problem. The fiber washers would prevent this from happening.

hi all-

rond36 after reading your post further down, and some more web browsing, i decided it as ok to try, and that the atx configuration is just not a very safe way of mounting-i would have much rather saw some kind of PLASTIC mounting stands -say like something that you could push into the backplate with a fishhook type end -like you see on gpu fans. its just unsafe the way it is. after mounting new mobo, i have one screw that is a little off centered and less than 1/32 away from a circuit. not cool. anyway I'm posting from it right now, and was very happy everything went relatively easily -I spent more time stressing and researching than i really needed to -live and learn. now i just have to figure out where to put it, since its bigger than my old one, and wont fit in my entertainment center any more -thanx all for your help (whyzman) happy zeros and ones