Boot up problems - mea culpa !

[Sharon Murray]

I have broken most of the golden rules about verifying current status before starting work on a PC. The following catalogue of errors takes some explaining. Please forgive the length of this, my first post to the forum.

The problem : On boot-up I get one long beep, followed by 3 short and one more long beep. No video. I don't know what type of BIOS is in use.

The background: My daughter was given a 3 yr old computer for University - an Apricot MS540, P120, 16MB RAM. Apart from being a bit slow, it worked fine running Windows 95. The problems started when she tried to get it onto the University network. Friends at the university had a variety of problems inserting a network card, and eventually ended up upgrading to Windows 98. They gave up on the network card, and left the PC more or less unusable - it would crash after being on for about 10 mins or so. I told my daughter to bring it home and I would look at it over christmas. She brought the PC home, but not the manuals.

Broken rule number 1: Having got the computer home, before even switching it on, I opened the case and took out one of the memory chips. As a result, I don't know if something happened to the PC during the journey to make it stop working.

Broken rule number 2: To get the chip out I had to remove the cable to the floppy. I failed to observe which way in it fitted.

Broken rule number 3: The chip was difficult to put back in and I managed to break a small white piece of plastic off the socket that holds the chip in place. I did this with my finger, so I don't think I damaged the mother board, but ....

Inevitable outcome: When I put everything back together and switched on, it failed to boot. It beeped 5 times (1 long - 3 short - 1 long), and although it sounds as though the hard disk is engaging etc. I get no video. Although I don't know what the BIOS is, looking through the excellent PC and Troubleshooting Guide, everything seems to point to a video card error, but maybe this is too much of a coincidence.

Since I don't have the manuals at home, and can't examine the configuration of the system without a monitor, this is all the technical information I can give at the moment.

Given all these circumstances, can anyone suggest a troubleshooting list that I can work through to try and solve the problem ? Or have I complicated the problem to the point that it is going to be impossible/expensive to isolate it ?

I don't have a lot of money to spare to fix this, but even less to buy my daughter a replacement. Any advice would be very greatly appreciated.

Sharon http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/redface.gif

[WarHog]

Sharon,
The beeps you are hearing are Codes. They can actually help you to track the problem...hopefully http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif It's called "POST" for "Power On Self Test". Since you don't know what Bios you have I would suggest carefully pulling off the cover and looking on the MotherBoard and see if you can find something on one of the chips that might say "Award, Phoenix,AMI or something in that nature to identify your Bios. Here's a good site that will help you find the codes you are hearing...http://webenet.net/~ntuser/
As for your floopy cable: If you plugged it in backwards the light on the drive will stay on. And for the little white plastic piece that broke on the ram clip, I wouldn't worry about that to much, just make sure that the simm's are seated properly.
Please post back after you have identified the POST codes, I'm sure someone here can help you more then I have.
Good Luck,
WarHog

[Sharon Murray]

I have searched the motherboard closely, but can't find any clue to the BIOS as yet. I'll keep looking.

I had the floppy cable in backward - the drive light was on continuosly. I've turned it round, and now the light doesn't come on at all. Is that OK ?

The machine still gives the same beep sequence.

I took out the memory chip again (from socket MM1), and it looks to me as though the socket is damaged slightly. I've re-inserted the memory chips into MM3 and MM4, but still the same beeps.

Does anyone have any other suggestions ?

Thank you,
Sharon http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Sharon Murray]

OK. I have found the letters PHX on a chip, so I am assuming I have a Phoenix BIOS. The full chip reads:
ES9630ALE4
PC-87308-IBL/VUL
c PHX 94 137
c m NSC 1995 A5

A Phoenix BIOS would also fit in with the group of 3 beeps that I am getting - 1l 3s 1l. According to the PCGuide and Webenet sites, this indicates 'RAM refresh failure. The RAM refresh controller has failed'.

The question is, is it fixable ? I am really concerned about the apparent damage to the first simms slot (MM1)- this is the one with the broken white plastic piece, but it also has damage to some of the metal 'teeth' at one end. I have tried to ignore this slot and use MM3 and MM4 but I still get the same beeps.

I really would appreciate some more advice on this.

Thank you,
Sharon

[kenja]

Oh gosh.

These connectors are mounted onto what's termed busses, but they would be more accurately called multi-lane freeways.

I've been able to resuscitate mashed backplane connectors on an old DEC minicomputer, but those things are huge compared to what you're working with.

[herbert]

I really can't think of much Sharon but for what it's worth ...

It's probably the case that M1 an M2 have to be populated first, so putting the memory in M3, M4 will likely not work.

I find it hard to believe the "teeth" are damaged. This would take quite some force in my opinion.

It seems likely that the memory is not making proper contact. If the plastic part was crucial to maintain firm electrical contact then you'll have to improvise something to do this. Sticky tape maybe?

You can try holding the memory in position using your fingers and booting up.

What beeps do you get without ANY memory in?

[Paleo Pete]

You are correct that it's Phoenix BIOS, onlt Phoenix uses the 3 sets of beeps. Depending on the BIOS version, these might help. Phoenix BIOS 4.0 (http://www.firmware.com/support/bios/beep4.htm) error codes. Error and Beep Codes with Problem Source Listing (http://www.pctusa.com/pcerror.htm#phoenix) from PC Tune up. According to this one, 1-3-1 means replace the motherboard. Let's hope not!

Since the newer Phoenix (4.0 and later) uses 4 sets of beeps, I'd think yours is the older BIOS. The PC Guide says 1-3-1 is RAM Refresh Failure, the second link above says replace the motherboard. The PC Guide description also says the first 1MB of memory, whi9ch would be the same slot that's damaged, so that fits...But I'm not sure who's correct. The memory slot damage could also have damaged the board, so both may be right...Check this link to Troubleshoot Motherboards (http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/comp/mbsys/gen_Failure.htm) and this one to Troubleshoot Memory (http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/comp/ram/fail.htm) (if you haven't already).

Since you have seen physical damage to the momory slot, I'm afraid we might have to admit the worst here, the motherboard could be damaged. Since the damaged section is also on the first memory slot, that may be a big problem, the computer won't run unless M1 and M2 are populated, as herbert said. (I'm assuming 72 pin SIMM's)

Does the board have any 168 pin DIMM slots? If so that might be worth trying.

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[Sharon Murray]

I'm think I'm going to have to take this to our nearest PC repair shop for their advice. Thank you all very much for your advice. I will keep this site bookmarked for further reference.

Thank you all again,
Sharon

[TVC15]

Sharon, do you have an AT or an LX motherboard? (ie are the expansion slots on the board (AT) or are they on a riser card (LX))

If you have a standard AT motherboard then you will probably be able to pick up a second hand replacement at a computer fair for £5 to £10.

LX boards are more difficult to find as they tend to be specific to the manufacturer of your PC.

If you want details of local fairs then let me know.

Andy