How unusual I must ask...

[ReddDogg]

Hi everyone. Pete, I know this will likely get moved, but I don't know which category to put this question under, so I just played eny meny miny moe.

The Problem:

I am trying to install a known good modem into a 486 IBM with a Bios Dated 10/5/92. This machine has an NE2000 compatible isa Network card on com2. My OS is currently windows 3.1. This machine lacks a cd rom, but I have it networked to use the cd rom drive off my WinME machine. I installed Internet Explorer and such. When setting up a dial up connection, it won't detect the modem, cause it says there is a conflict. Now, via MSD in dos, I found that my computer only recognizes a com1 and a com2. Via the IRQ analysis in MSD, I found that both com1 and com2 have the same address. So, I tried going into Bios to manually change it, but to no avail, there is no such setting, the bios is to old. So, I go searching, without luck, for a way to update my bios. Now, I know i haven't searched as much as I could have, but I figured Pete would have some links I could go to for help finding and updated bios for this old hunk of crap. It is one of the older 486's, the ones without a math coprocessor.

Now, I figure you would ask why in the world I would work on this old junk. I mean, I have 4 other pc's, a laptop, a p75, an athlon500 and an athlon600. Well, there is the thing. My P75 is my NT server, my Athlon500 is my going to be my main machine soon, and the athlon600 will have Mandrake 7.1 installed on it for learning purposes. The old 486 has no real purpose to me, but I found a program called autonet. It fits on a floppy, and you boot from the floppy on an old computer like the 486, one that has a modem and a network card, and it will act as a DNS server, dialing up anytime any machine on the network needs something from the internet, and serving as a firewall. It doesn't need a hard drive, cd rom, or a keyboard or monitor. but, you setup the floppy from another computer, and I have to tell it what com port the modem is on. I tried telling it 1, and it doesn't dial. I tried 2 and it isn't even reachable. So that is why I went into 3.1, which is installed on the computer, and installed IE3.01 and the setup for my isp on it.

I would have cable or dsl or satelite, but I just moved to a new town (columbus OH) and I am staying with my uncle till I get on my feet, and he doesnt' even have cable, so I would be shelling major bucks for that. It blows goats.

Anyway, my thought here is if I can update the bios to the extent of which i would have control over the irq's and I/0 addresses and such, then I can make the modem and the nic work at the same time. Then, I can dial in from win 3.1, and after verifying which com port that the modem is on, then I can setup that floppy disk so I can make the autonet program work, and I can happily continue the linux conversion.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer. I will try to stop in here a little bit more often Pete. Amazing there are 1900+ geeks here now, I remember when I joined it was about a hundred.... yowsers, what a difference 4 months make.

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Joe Redd
MCP

[mjc]

Joe,

There is a possibility that there isn't a Bios update for it. The board is old enough that the COM Port settings may be controlled by jumper settings on the MOBO so you maybe should be searching for a manual for it.

Is the modem internal or external? Because if it's an internal check the jumpers on it too.

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mjc

[Reid]

That is a strange one. The COM ports should have different addresses:
Standard COM (serial) Port Address/IRQ Settings
Port I/O Address IRQ
COM1 3F8h 4
COM2 2F8h 3
COM3 3E8h 4
COM4 2E8h 3

If your modem has a jumper to set it to COM3, give that a try.




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reido@my-deja.com

Friends don't let friends load Windows ME

[Paleo Pete]

First, I agree with mjc, try to get a motherboard manual, it may come in real handy.

TDN Services (http://www.tdnservices.com/manuals.html) has a list of oldewr boards. More older boards Here (http://venus.spaceports.com/~canada/webhq/reload.html). Get the BIOS ID String, Wim's BIOS (http://www.ping.be/bios/) is a good place to start on identifying the beast.

From what you posted it looks like you have win3.1 installed. Go into Control Panel, and click the Ports icon. There you can change the settings for the COM ports.

As stated already, I doubt if you'll find a BIOS update for that board, but it won't hurt to look. You also might need to disable the COM port you want to put the modem on in BIOS, not sure yet.

You'll need a mouse at least until you get things set up to work, so unless it's using a PS/2 you'll need it set on COM1 for now. PS/2 would be nice, it takes IRQ 12...that would simplify matters a bunch.

Also stated previously is the possibility that the modem has jumpers to set it for a different COM port. If you set it for COM3 it will conflict with a serial mouse until you remove the mouse, com4 will conflict with the NIC...that's a tough one, I'll have to do some more digging to see what I can find out in my win3.1 books. Removing the serial mouse would be an option, but navigating win3.1 with a keyboard is a bit tougher than with win95. It can be done though, I've had to do it due to...you guessed it...a conflict between modem and mouse...

Try to get the COM ports assigned to different resources, and check out the modem jumper idea, and let's see if we can make any progress, tackle the rest after you get that figured out.

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If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you!
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[Reid]

I only suggested trying COM 3 because he said he is booting the 486 from a floppy and I assume the DOS app doesn't use a mouse. I just wondered how he gets by without a keyboard http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Another assumption is that the MSD only show two COM ports because 1 and 2 have UARTS on them, but there is no physical device to detect on COM 3.

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reido@my-deja.com

Friends don't let friends load Windows ME

[mjc]

When I put a modem in my father-in-law's computer several years ago I had to configure the modem jumpers and MOBO jumpers for the ports, no BIOS settings ('92 dated Amer. Maegtrends BIOS). Some of the things we take for granted these days....

No update for the BIOS either, it wasn't flashable (a PROM chip). I don't know what MOBO you've got but that wasn't too uncommon back then (also some had EPROMs that had to be removed and sent in to be updated).
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mjc

[This message has been edited by mjc (edited 01-25-2001).]

[Reid]

Good point mjc, there may be jumpers on the I/O board; 486s I worked on didn't have serial ports on the motherboard.

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reido@my-deja.com

Friends don't let friends load Windows ME

[ReddDogg]

Lemme clarify a few things for point of reference. It is a ps/2 mouse and ps/2 keyboard. No AT thank god. And i do have a keyboard and mouse for when I use windows 3.1 I have had 95 on it, but it is slow as dirt.

I will look for a manual like you said, it is an internal 33.6 modem, of course isa. I don't have any docs for either modem or mobo right now. It is quite frustrating. Thanks for all the helpful info. If ya think of anything more, please tell.

Also, in windows 3.1, I can change the I/0, but when I go into msd, it shows address of like f00h or something like that, for both com ports, and under control, it says bios control. I am not in front of it, I will give you the msd screen when I get home tonight.

I will have another stupid question tonight if I don't figure out this old packard bell I am working on for someone else...

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Joe Redd
MCP

[Reid]

What model is the 486? Does it have a part number sticker on the back?

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reido@my-deja.com

Friends don't let friends load Windows ME

[Paleo Pete]

Found some info that might help a bit, or at least help you understand a bit more about the way win3.11 handles communications. Typed this into a notepad file last night, so I could use it this morning without having to take 30 minutes on one post. Just got a box of books 2 days ago that my sister picked up out of state and just now unpacked. This info was not found in the MS win3.11 user's manual, I have 3 or 4 copies, or any other win3.1 book I have.

Keep in mind this book was published before win95 was released, so some of the info seems quite dated.

From the book More Windows 3.1 Secrets by Brian Livingston, then InfoWorld Windows Manager, columnist and author.


Since the subject of PC communications apparently wasn't confusing enough under DOS, Windows has come along to muddy the waters even more.

One problem that Windows creates is its limit on the throughput of all four communications, or com ports. You can use the Control PAnel to set any bits-per-second rate you want for COM1 through COM4, as long as that rate is 19,200bps or less. Today you can buy high speed modems with compression features that accelerate throughput up to bursts of 38,400bps. And many DOS file-transfer packages allow speeds up to 115,200bps. This makes the 19.2-Kbps limit in Windows seem a little dated.

Equally frustrating is the fact that Windows doesn't allow Windows or DOS apps to communicate with most systems' COM3 or COM4 in enhanced mode at all.

Both of these problems can be fixed, more or less. Let's first deal with support for COM3 and COM4.

In standard mode, Windows communicates with all four com ports through a device driver called COMM.DRV. If you look in the section of your SYSTEM.INI file, you should see the line COMM.DRV=COMM.DRV, which loads this driver.

In enhanced mode, Windows employs an internal driver known as the Virtual Communications Driver (VCD). The [386Enh] section of your SYSTEM.INI probably says DEVICE=*VCD. The asterisk indicates that the VCD driver is internal, not an external file in the System directory like COMM.DRV.

To handle input and output for com ports, your CPU uses a logical address. This is called the ports' base I/O address.

Everyone seems to agree that the I/O address for COM1 is 03F8 and COM2 is 02F8. When DOS 3.3 introduced COM3 and COM4, most (but not all) communications software assumed these ports would be located at 03E8 and 02E8, respectively - exactly one memory "paragraph" lower.

The windows COMM.DRV driver follows this convention, but the Virtual Communications Driver in win3.0 did not. The win3.0 VCD used the addresses 2E8 and 2E0 for COM3 and COM4 respectively. When you run communications software in win 3.0 enhanced mode, the software doesn't match the I/O addresses Windows is using, and there is no communication.

You can correct this by adding the following two lines to the [386Enh] section of SYSTEM.INI for win3.0:

[b][386Enh]
COM3Base=3E8h
COM4Base=2E8h

This problem was "corrected" in Windows 3.1 - COM3 and COM4 are given the base I/O address that most communications programs expect, but that isn't the end of the problems with COM3 and COM4 by any means.

Because of ISA bus limitations dating back to the original IBM PC-1, you cannot use a device on COM1 at the same time as COM3, nor can you use COM2 while COM4 is in use. Most serial ports use interrupt 4 for both COM1 and COM3, and interrupt 3 for COM2 and COM4 - and two devices cannot use the same interrupt simultaneously on an ISA bus machine. You can have a modem on COM1, a serial mouse on COM2 and a serial printer on COM3. But you can't print to the serial printer while using the modem. And since mice use interrupts constantly, you can't have anything on COM4 at all. (The current version of Microsoft's mouse driver does not seem to support serial mice on ports other than COM1 or COM2 either.)

Even though most AT-class machines and higher have up to 15 interrupts, most serial-board vendors simply haven't dsigned their hardware to allow configuration for the higher interrupts. However if you do find a serial port that allows a port to be assigned an interrupt other than 3 or 4 you can tell Windows to use a different interrupt for that port by adding a line to your SYSTEM.INI file. For example, if your COM3 serial port can be assigned to interrupt 11, add the following line to the [386Enh] section of SYSTEM.INI and restart Windows:

[386Enh]
COM3IRQ=11

You can also insert the line
COMxIRQ=-1
to disable a COM port, where x is the number of the COM port. This might be necessary if serial-port hardware is interfering with some other device in your system.

Once you've set up COM3 and COM4 properly, you can solve the 19.2Kbps limitation by upgrading your COMM.DRV to a driver called TurboCom. This product allows you to use any COM port up to COM4 (in any combination if you have a special 4 port serial board), and can program Windows to accept rates up to 57.6Kbps or higher. Contact Bio-Engineering Research Labs at 2831 7th St., Berkely, CA 94710; (510) 540-8080.

I don't know if this company even exists any more, but included it since it was part of the article. You might check around at some of the download sites and see what's available. SimTel (http://www.simtel.net/simtel.net/) usually has lots of good utilities and apps, all freeware or shareware, and Winfiles (http://www.winfiles.com) might turn up something useful.



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If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)