Crashes for no reason

[Raph]

My PC crashes while in the middle of an application (like Word2000, Outlook Express, connecting using dial-up connection, reading a floppy...) and even while in the CMOS setup. By crash I mean the screen freezes, and the system doesn't answer to CTRL+ALT+DEL in Windows, or cannot move in the menus when in CMOS setup.

I used an anti-virus program (V-buster V10.00) and it found a few viruses (macro-viruses) and cleaned them. After re-can, the disk appears clean.

WHEN I RE-START the system WITH THE HDD DISCONNECTED FROM THE MOTHERBOARD, and get into the CMOS setup (pressing Del), the system crashes after a minute or so !!!!! (navigation thu the menus of the CMOS impossible). Is my problem a motherboard problem ? Could a virus infect the BIOS ???

WHO CAN HELP ??????? (I have a MSI K7 Pro m/b, an AMD 650Mhz cpu, AGP Sis 6326, sound ALS4000, modem Motorola SM56)

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.

[Reid]

Did you make any changes to the system just before this started happening (add any hardware)? I tend to think the BIOS is OK if the system will boot up. There are virus' that could affect a BIOS, but I think they would actually corrupt the BIOS to the point it wouldn't boot. It could be a temperature related problem. Is the CPU fan running? Another possibility is a memory problem, either marginally performing or possibly not seated fully, or contacts possibly dirty. The video card could also be at fault.
Anyone else have ideas?

------------------
reido@my-deja.com

Friends don't let friends install Windows ME

[Raph]

Thanks Reid for your answer... However,
- I didn't add or remove any hardware.
- Temperature: I thought about it, and replaced the CPU fan by 2 fans. Result: the CPU temperature has gown down by 10 celcius (from 51 celcius to 41 celcius). Even at 51 celcius an AMD Athlon should not crash.
- Memory: the 128Mb block I have actually comes from another machine, and worked ok
- Video: I put another SiS AGP card, but same problem.

I HAVE NOTICED THAT MY MODEM CD DRIVER BEARS A FUNNY NAME, TYPICAL OF THOSE CD ONE CREATED USING A CD WRITER, LIKE YYMMDD_HHMM (YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOUR, MINUTE). SO I THINK IT'S A PIRATE CD, AND THEREFORE THE MODEM DRIVER COULD HAVE A VIRUS, ALTHOUGH INVISIBLE TO THE VIRUS SCAN SOFTWARE I USED (BETTER THAN MCAFEE OR NORTON)...

BASICALLY I NEED TO KNOW IF A SYSTEM HANGS IN THE CMOS SETUP, WHILE THE HARD DISK IS DISCONNECTED, IS IT A SURE 100% PROOF THAT THE PROBLEM IS PURELY HARDWARE ???????????

THANKS FOR ANY IDEA AND SUGGESTION !

[Randy_tx]

If the system hangs in cmos...and you dont have a cmos virus....then it's definately a hardware issue! By going through the series of checks Reid suggests,ie..pull the RAM and try with different RAM, then pull the video and try different vid ....if those swaps dont allow a "Postup" then you have a bad CPU or bad Motherboard for sure....unless you build computers and have extra cpu's lying around that's about the point that you will have to take it to a shop and let someone find out which it is: mobo or cpu.

------------------
"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[BigBlue66]

Hey,

Sounds like a memory problem to me. First question I would ask is: Does the motherboard in the problem machine support the size, type, speed, etc. of the RAM stick that you got from the other machine? Other questions are: Is it fully seated? Did the problems start after you installed this memory stick?

Cheers,

Big Blue 66

[Raph]

Thanks Reid, Randy_tx, BigBlue66 for these ideas...

Actually, BigBlue66, my RAM is a 128 Mb, PC-100 stick, totally supported by my mobo (a MSI K7 Pro for AMD Athlon). It comes from another machine and worked ok. I also tried a 64 Mb, PC-100 stick, but to no avail... Actually, when I got my PC from the shop, the guys put a wrong stick (PC-133 instead of the required PC-100). So I had crashes. Then I realized that and changed the memory accordingly. But I still get crashes. However, the crashes I have are only occasionally. So, could it be that the mobo is damaged due to this wrong memory which stayed there on the mobo for several months ???

Randy_tx, what you say confirms what I think so far. However, I would like to know if there is a method to prove for sure that a PC is infected by a CMOS VIRUS: how to prove that ?????

My PC also re-starts very badly. After the initial memory test, sometimes it carries on and starts Windows, sometimes it just writes "WAIT..." and nothing more happens. Sometimes I can work for hours on the PC (MSWord, Matlab, IE5, etc but nothing involving intensive video or sound). Sometimes it crashes in the middle of an application. It is totally unpredictable. Also, once I get a crash, it is impossible to re-start the machine properly right after it happens (either by the re-start button, or complete power-off). It would hang after the memory test, or in the CMOS setup.

Thank you guys for your ideas !

[Paleo Pete]

Sounds like a memory problem to me too. intermittent hangups like this are typical of ESD damage, especially with memory. The chips sustain minor damage, but still basically work, and cause erratic problems that are difficult to pin down. I think I got careless when I installed this board and my memory is doing the same thing, but only after start up, and usually when on the internet, since that's when it gets the most intensive use.

I would try to check some other known good memory, and be very careful about static electricity. You can't feel less than about 2000V, and less than 100V can damage computer components. You can create that much turning in your chair, especially on carpet on a dry day...

------------------
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[Randy_tx]

Having PC-133 SDRAM in your computer will NOT harm the motherboard by the way. Your crashes were not the result of the PC133 RAM.

------------------
"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[BigBlue66]

Hi Raph,

Randy_tx says that your mobo is not damaged by using the wrong kind of memory. I might question that, if I really knew what I was talking about, however, I don't have a lot of experience with this type of problem. Additionally though, anything is possible in this crazy mixed up world. hehe Could it be possible that the wrong memory somehow affected something else? I don't know the answer to that.

Pete echoes my sentiments. I still think it's memory related. You may have unwittingly damaged the memory by a small amount of ESD. However, you say you tried a different stick of PC-100 memory with no improvement. Did you handle both sticks with the proper precautions? Are the memory slots in good shape? Not damaged somehow? Are the contacts on the memory sticks nice and clean? Use a rubber pencil eraser to gently clean them.

Can you get your hands on a PCI video board to try? The modem driver sounds suspicious too. Can you update it with a bonafide one? I might suspect the video card with less emphasis on the modem driver.

Have you cleared the CMOS to see if that helps?

Can't think of anything else to add. Hope you figure it out. Good luck.

Cheers,

Big Blue 66

[BigBlue66]

Whoops, sorry for the double post, Pete. No dammit, never mind. Now where is that cup of coffee? Oivay!

[This message has been edited by BigBlue66 (edited 02-20-2001).]

[This message has been edited by BigBlue66 (edited 02-20-2001).]

[mjc]

Couldn't some of the problems also be attributable to a bad flash? And if the CMOS is corrupt or has a virus wouldn't pulling the battery and letting sit around for a few hours without the battery clear it out.

As far as I can figure out PC133 is 3.3V memory that is rated to run at a higher bus speed than PC66 or PC100 so it shouldn't impact the board or the memory, altough there is one possibilty non-ECC in an ECC only MOBO, shouldn't damage board, just wouldn't work right. ECC memeory in a non-ECC board is just a waste of money (feature not supported by board no problem) but non-ECC in an ECC board looking for something needed but not finding it!



------------------
mjc
To ME or NOT to ME....

[Raph]

PROBLEM SOLVED !!!

Guess what ? It was my keyboard ! I replaced it, and the problem has gone. I had a PS/2 keyboard, and the connector seemed to be at fault. I found this out when I removed the keyboard and did a restart. No problem at all, everything going smoothly.

So, the conclusion is, never underestimate the keyboard (and possibly the mouse) in the crash equation !!!!!!

Anyway, thanks for the ideas !