Installing WIN98 on new, clean Hard Drive

[Computer Deb]

I have been upgrading my system and I finally made the big change and installed a new motherboard, CPU and harddrive. After a few cable corrections, etc. the hardware is installed correctly and working.

I am having difficulty installing my WIN98 operating system. It will start and then it stalls/freezes. I have rebooted, reformatted, and still haven't been able to install completely. Any ideas? I have also checked for viruses, because another time I had an "old" boot virus when I was installing. My hard drive is clean.

I realize that this is a software issue, but I DON'T want to call Microsoft. I have paid for incident support in the past with mixed results. Trying to get an answer or information from their website is next to impossible. Especially asking a question.

This forum seems much more friendly ... and I always find good information about other problems (yes, I'm kissing up)

I welcome ideas, information, suggestions!

[kayofcircles]

Couple of places that you may have already looked, but hey. Installing 98 (http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/81.ASP?LN=EN-US&SD=gn&FR=0&qry=installing&rnk=47&src=DHCS_MSPSS_gn_SRCH&SPR=W98)

And the ReadMe file is Setup (http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q179/7/56.ASP?LN=EN-US&SD=gn&FR=0&qry=installing&rnk=29&src=DHCS_MSPSS_gn_SRCH&SPR=W98)

That first link has another link about halfway down the page about installing on a nice clean new hard drive. This will give you something to read until one of the experts comes along.... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[BigBlue66]

Hey,

I shall assume that you have already used Fdisk to set up the harddrive with FAT32 support?

Does your BIOS have an option for virus checking? If so, turn it off before attempting to install.

Sorry, can't think of anything else.

Cheers,

Big Blue 66


------------------
Woe is me.

[This message has been edited by BigBlue66 (edited 07-12-2001).]

[Computer Deb]

I don't know if my BIOS has a virus scan ... I used my Emergency Disk from Norton Utilites in DOS. I am aware that it can create a problem if it is on, so I will check the BIOs ... good idea!

Also, I will check the two links posted.

Thanks ... does anyone else think MS is difficult to reach? I have all my discs, paperwork and documentation about my purchases, but it doesn't get me too far.

THANKS A MILLION ...

Debbi

[bassvax]

You could go back and do a f/disk session...but this time use fdisk /mbr (essentially clearing the master boot record) then use f/disk to create your partition(s) and set the primary as active. Then onto your formatting & installing. I would also keep the peripherals to a minimum during our OS install adding them one at a time later.

Of course, this is not a Compaq or HP right http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Flush 'N' Forget
FE Stokes WWTP (http://www2.apex.net/users/hwuswtp)

[Rick]

If you are doing a clean install with an empty Hard drive.
May I suggest you avoid at least a few of the hassles I have seen in the past.

Remove all add in cards from your system.
Do The win98 install with nothing but the Hard drive, video card, floppy and CD-rom
installed in the system.

This will or at least should reduce the chances of Plug and Pray mishaps .
You can install all the other cards one at a time and avoid some of the freeze ups caused by the install program getting lost or confused.

I have had to do this a number of times in the past with 98 and 98se

------------------
To ERR is HUMAN
To REALLY screw things UP, YOU NEED a COMPUTER !

[iisbob]

all i have to say is; "see above post" http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif

------------------
iisbob
"Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run."

[Computer Deb]

Last night I went into my BIOS and couldn't find an antivirus software ... will check the specs on the web today.

I tried to run f/disk last to convert to fat32; couldn't find out how to do it in DOS, how do I?

Also, I don't have many of my cards in, although I will remove my modem card. I will reformat but I don't want to remove the cd-rom program. I also have a USB card that I can remove.

I have been reformatting from an old WIN98 start with:
a:format c: /s
That has worked well, I'm able to boot with CD-ROM support and start (yes, only start) WIN98 setup. I get as far as 10% and then it stops. It would make perfect sense if there was a virus program on the mobo.

Thanks for all the input ... I will get it installed!!!

[Randy_tx]

Since it is hanging during the install process, it could be you have RAM that is going out [I've seen this symptom many times and RAM was the culprit]....having said that, try this before changing out the RAM: Make a directory in C called Win98.
Put the startup disk in and get CD support......at the prompt for the CD [usually E:].....instead of typing setup....type copy E:\Win98*.* _C:Win98 and let it copy win98 to the hard drive [hope my syntax is right here] the underscore _ is a space between the *.* and C: . If it works, you can then go to the C prompt from the startup disk then change directories[cd\win98] to get to the Win98 directory and type "Setup" and it will install Win98 from the hard drive.........good luck!

------------------
Will XP save Me ?

[This message has been edited by Randy_tx (edited 07-13-2001).]

[skhips]

I have had an install repetadly hang on me and it was the CPU fan that was faulty, after X amount of minutes into the install the temp was getting to high and crashing I would restart and it would repeat and I would sometimes get a bit further into the install, then I took the lid off.

This could be the problem as you have upgrade your CPU, is fan on correctly, is it working, did you get a higher spec fan with your faster CPU or are you using your old fan.

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Computer Deb]

Thank you, Randy ... I am going to do that.

I printed out the WIN98 setup (from the link above) and decided that since I have the space on the harddrive that I would copy the whole WIN98 to my drive. That way I have it there anyways!

Also, my MOBO has 72-pin SIMMs and I have only 64 RAM right now, 16 per SIMM. I can change the size in the other bank and I was considering adding two 32 RAM SIMMS accordingly. The price is right now!

Everyone has been great and I really appreciate all the advice!

[Computer Deb]

skhips ... the fan. I bought a new bigger fan with the CPU, so I should be fine!

I will check to see if it is on correctly. The first time I put it on, I had it on wrong, so it could be?!

Good Idea ... and that is exactly what is happening, I get about 6% into the install, then 8%, and 10% has been the most and then it stops.

I was told that the fan clips on each side of the Socket 7 (right in the middle. The longer side is where the size (socket 7) label is?!



[This message has been edited by Computer Deb (edited 07-13-2001).]

[skhips]

If you look on the underside of the fan you will sometimes see a step or lip this is to allow it to fit snugly on the the cpu with the stepped edge going over where the socket is larger (where normally you find socket 7 printed.

I am not sure if the fan MUST make contact with the CPU as on some Socket 7 fans you can change the strength / notch of the fan clips and I have heard a little about cooling gels to place between the fan and cpu to assist in cooling, can anyone confirm here please.

Did you paperwork with the fan say what cpus it could be used with.

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Randy_tx]

You haven't said what CPU you have (woops- I see now you have a Socket 7). If it is an AMD chip you need to be certain the CPU fan is securely on...they heat up pretty quick.
b]XP[/b] save Me ?

[This message has been edited by Randy_tx (edited 07-13-2001).]

[Computer Deb]

My CPU is Pentium MMX 233. I had also bought an AMD450 but the MOBO wouldn't run with it. All my data said that it could be exchanged with Pentium Socket 7, but it must a Super Socket 7 to accept it.

I will check the fan again. My old processor was a Pentium 133 and had a smaller fan attached to it, although I know that bigger doesn't necessarily mean better or faster. I purchased the fan with the Pentium MMX processor.

Thanks again!

[danleff]

Hi,

Just curious, when you boot-up, does the correct processor and speed, as well as the amount of ram installed come up?

Make sure that the simms are seated properly. Try reseating them.

What board do you have? Are there any jumpers on the board that need to be set up for the CPU/FSB. Check the motherboard manual. This is a socket 7 which, depending on the version of the board, may need to flashed in order to accept the other processor you bought. The cyrix should be alright ans should display correctly on boot-up. Once you get this processor working, then you may want to tackle the 450 mhz.

If the board does have jumpers that need to be set, does the owners manual
give you the seting changes you need to make to accept newer/faster processors. If there are no jumpers that need to be set, make sure it recognizes the current processor speed and type correctly.

Does the fan seem to run normally when you start up the system? Leave the case cover off and take a look-see to see if the fan is running properly and that there are no obstructions that might be affecting the fan functioning.

Is the heatsink and fan designed to run with this processor. I know you stated that you bought it with the processor, which one, the Cyrix?

[Computer Deb]

Well, I have tried almost everything ... could I try it without the fan and the put it on after installation? I am so frustrated. I got as far as 30% installed.

I have also been checking the web to see if I can get into my CMOS setting. I know on my old system, I was able to disable a virus program. I don't have as many options with this new MOBO. Only the typical settings.

WARNING - Stupid question heading toward you? - Is there a difference between the BIOS and CMOS? I can get to my BIOS by hitting F1 when the my system is loading. I found information about getting to the CMOS settings by hitting F2 before loading. That hasn't worked yet, so I was questioning whether there was a difference.

I can't check my email ... my mailbox is overflowing ....

[Computer Deb]

So I don't know if anyone is checking these posts anymore ... but here's an update.

Last night my WIN98 copied all of the files for installation (I thought I was in heaven!) but didn't complete the installation because it got hung up on the hardware configuration. So I never actually was able to open WIN98.

So I reformatted (for the Xth time) and will try again. One of my co-workers from Information Systems suggested that since my old hard drive was not corrupted, that I should boot from that and copy the system to my slave drive and move it back?

Any thoughts?

[kayofcircles]

No thoughts cuz no knowledge on whether that will work. Just wanted you to know that someone is checking your thread. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[iisbob]

as for reseting your CMOS goes, simplest thing is just to remove the battery for a minute, then replace it( check your mobo manual to see if they have a jumper option to do this, most new boards do). What bios are you running? Is it award? or some other brand? you may need to flash your BIOS( WARNING! this can be very hazardous to your PC's health if you do it wrong! ) you'll wind up with a doorstop! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif How old is the current BIOS? whe it boots up, hit pause and; and look at the bottom for a string of #'s and characters-this will let you identify the BIOS and the it's date. If your motherboard has an updateable BIOS, then post back here and we'll try to help you flash it, if you want.

also, run scandisk on the hard drive before you try your next install, ( you can copy it from windows/command folder to your boot floppy)and choose the option to do a surface scan and repair bad clusters if possible; this can prevent an install if you have bad clusters/sectors on the hard drive-good luck! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
iisbob
"Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run."

[Computer Deb]

I have run Scandisk ... many,many times. No problems, new hard drive.

I did reset the CMOS right after installation. My bios do have to be flashed (I have done that before with my old MOBO, no problems) Right off the top of my head I can't remember the number - I'm at work, although I have been bringing all of my documentation for research.

Thanks!

Debbi

[Computer Deb]

Update ...

Getting more and more frustrated, I reformatted my whole hard drive (previously I had been format c: /s, thus saving my system records.)

I got a nice, good install of my MS-DOS 6.22. Nice boot, etc.

I started installing WIN98. All of the file copies copied!! This had only happened once in the last thousand times I had tried. The install seem to be going very smooth. It restarted, looked at the configuration, plug & play and froze. I rebooted and it picked up where it had stalled. Same place, same time, froze.

Rebooted and I got the message to run SCANREG, which I did. It found an incorrect entry, but fixed it. Then when I tried to reboot (clean boot, NOT Control/Alt/Delete) I got an error message that I needed to reinstall setup. Then my lunch hour was over and had to get back to work.

Any thoughts? Just so you know, I only have my monitor and soundboard plugged in. I have taken out my modem, USB card so I am working from bare bones. My thought was to get a nice clean install and then add each one and have WIN98 recognize.

I'll try the Microsoft Install FAQ and see if there is anything there that might help me.

Again, I am frustrated in Duluth!

Debbi

[Computer Deb]

HEY ... I have an idea (don't know if it is good or bad ...)

Since I have the WIN98 files in my system, what if I restored my OS from a recent back up? Or would that be totally stupid. I do have my old hard drive with WIN98 installed ... the drive wasn't bad (ok, ok, a few bad sectors) but it was operating, I just upgraded to a much larger drive.

Just throwing out ideas, because I am going crazy that I cannot access my system at home or check ANY of my email. My email through my LAN provider has to be downloaded from a phone line, etc.

Debbi

My "simple" upgrade and build project is NO longer inexpensive ... it is costing my sanity!

[Computer Deb]

Obviously, I am boring everyone with my stupid problem, but I am continuing to try to get it going ...

I connected my old hard drive (as the master) and my new bigger hard drive (as the slave). It booted up and then told me I was missing a system.ini file needed to run Windows, so it wouldn't open Win98.

Also, one of the messages that I got when I was trying to install directly on my new hard drive was "VGA.drv caused a General Page Fault (I can't remember the exact message). When I rebooted from my old hardrive, I almost got into windows, but the video was as if I was in Safe Mode.

My questions are:

- Can I use my back up to restore my OS on my old harddrive?
- How do I do that?
- Can that be done from DOS or do I have to be WIN98?
- Could I have a conflict with my system because video might be on my new motherboard and I need WIN98 to recognize it?
- Also, my mouse is recognized when I boot up (in DOS) but is not at all recognized when I try to install or even in safe mode. I get a message that says if I am using a PS/2 connection for a mouse, I need to reboot. When I have tried connecting to a a com port with the appropriate attachment, it still doesn't recognize the mouse. I figured that once I got into windows, that I would run the Mouse program.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[iisbob]

Ok, let's start from the beginning and try this one step at a time;

1) make sure there are no expansion cards in your system except a graphics card if you don't have onbaord graphics.

2) check all your cables/connections-connect only the new bigger harddrive-check and make sure it's jumper is set to master.

3) Boot from your bootable win98se floppy-select "start without cd-rom support, you don't need it at this time.

4) It should pop up and say something to the affect about supportting FAT32 etc..say yes.

5) When you get the A:/> type fdisk /mbr, this will reset the master boot record so you can start a clean install.

6) When it is finished, shutdown-wait a minute then restsrt and stil tell it " no cd-rom support " for now

7) When you get the A prompt again choose fdisk and delete any primary and secondary partitions( any logocal ones also)

8) shutdown/ restart go back to A prompt again with fdisk set your primary partition( i would suggest just using the entire disk space) { still start w/no cd-rom support for now }

9) Once you've successfully created a master partition then use the format c: /s command to set it up for windows install.

10 ) finally restart and tell it to start with cd support; make sure you put your windows cd in the cdplayer( Do Not choose setup windows install from the menu option)

11) Now at the A prompt type in your cdplayer drive letter, so yous should now have D:/> as a prompt-now type in setup hit enter.

The reason i'm telling you to use a command line to setup windows install is that a lot of times windows will not properly install when you try to use it's " friendly " menu setup installation item. Especially if it detects a previous version of windows on a drive. Hopefully this will help you in getting this system up and running. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
iisbob
"Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run."

[Computer Deb]

iisbob,

Thank you ... I will follow your step by step instructions. I have done many of these things, but possibly not in this order. I have done it soo many times, I can't remember.

I do not have any expansion cards other than the video and sound (should I take out the sound card?) No modem, no USB, nothing.

I didn't spend alot of time on this over the weekend, so I will start fresh tonight.

I did try to boot with my old hard drive, but haven't been able to get all the way into the system. It started recognizing the new elements of the motherboard (and installing them) but then would freeze up. It did adjust the monitor, which I had noted before as a problem. It still hasn't recognized mouse (which has a new PS/2 port.) It sees it when I turn it on (Mouse - detected) and has once or twice provided the message "found new pointing device, will search for drivers ..."

Thanks for helping, iisbob ... iisdeb ... and iisstilltrying!!

Debbi

[Computer Deb]

It appears as if my problems might a WIN98 issue. I finally broke down and called Microsoft. After reviewing some codes from a setuplog.txt, the tech checked and thought it was probably due to bad data. The files that are copied are corrupt; so they are sending me a new CD.

In the meantime, though, I did upgrade my BIOS which now recognizes both my PS2 mouse (so I can use it) and my correct processor speed.

I am STILL offline, but closer, I believe, to conquering this situation. From this posting, I did find out that I had not fdisk correctly for FAT32; which, of course, I have since corrected.

Thanks for all the advice ... I hope that by this time next week ... I will be operating!

[kayofcircles]

Cool! Microsoft actually came in handy this time. And what you've learned from this experience will be useful too..trust me. Good luck, and I too hope you're back online by next week.

[Computer Deb]

Postscript to a Computer "Wanna Be" ...

My problems installing WIN98 was not the software ... it was the "suspect" motherboard that I bought! I wasn't able to maximize my new CPU because the MOBO was unstable. It is up and running but performance is no better than my old processor and motherboard. The only difference is that the new MOBO has more connectors on it, such as PS/2 ports for both the mouse and the keyboard. I also didn't have to use a few of my old ISA cards which were for a SCSI and my floppy drive, so that was good.

So during this "upgrade" I had purchased a faster CPU 450 AMD (socket 7) from a reputable company. The CPU wasn't supported by this motherboard because of the speed. So I bit the bullet again, and purchased another motherboard that WILL work with the new CPU. I will be able to assemble these while looking at the current motherboard. It should be smoother. I won't be changing the harddrive at the same time.

My learning curve was expensive but I haven't given up yet ... and will soon be faster than ever!

[kenja]

If you're still wondering about CMOS vs BIOS, the terms are used interchangeably by PC techs. Speaking more precisely, CMOS is a chip fabrication technology while BIOS is software (aka firmware). PC Guide (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/bios/compCMOS-c.html)