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View Full Version : Avatar business, once and for all



Charles Kozierok
07-02-2002, 11:43 PM
Alright, let's once and for all hash out this avatar business, which is starting to get more than a bit silly.

Here's my take on the matter, feel free to provide your opinions.

The idea behind things like the titles and the avatars is to provide small perks for those who have made this site what it is by contributing to it. It's not the case that those who post less often are not valued, but by the same token, it is the active contributions by regulars that make this place what it is. Most of them come here week in and week out, answer questions and build the community, and never ask for anything in return. The avatars are a small token of my appreciation.

You will notice that "give avatars to everyone" is not an option in this poll. That's because I do not feel that this is a viable option. Part of why I chose the avatars for this small "perk" is that they consume many resources. If everyone has one of these, it will result in a lot of extra hits on the server (each of which requires a database query) and long load times for people with slow connections. And it's just not important enough to justify that.

So, let's see what people think.

Whyzman
07-03-2002, 12:05 AM
I just look at it as though the avatar is the 11th icon dealy. ;)

Donna
07-03-2002, 03:12 AM
As much as I want to use my own Avatar, I'll wait till I reach Grand Master. I figure that should be about 5 years.:D

setoguro
07-03-2002, 08:44 AM
I for one like the idea of avatars and don't want you to drop them. I've been coming here for about 2 years now and have gotten to know a lot of people through their posts. Their faceless but sometimes you can get a hint of who they and their personality by the way they write. Avatars will take it a little farther. Adding a little more color and personality to our shadow world.
As far a abuse goes. It will happen but not very much I think and no more than what has happened all ready. (One more post close to getting an avatar :D)
(I've been posting more but I'm typing better this only took a 1/2 hr. to put togather and learning more thanks all :D)

jabarnutcase
07-03-2002, 09:06 AM
Alright, let's once and for all hash out this avatar business, which is starting to get more than a bit silly.

Amen to that!!!

I for one am proud to announce that my vote was to: Leave the avatars as they are, for Grand Master Geeks and above

While I feel that it was a nice gesture for Charles to put the geek icons back, (and I do like them), this whole avatar business has indeed become "more than a bit silly"

Lets get on with helping each other with computer questions!:D

Charles Kozierok
07-03-2002, 09:50 AM
test bump - sorry :)

Steve
07-03-2002, 08:17 PM
I say...keep them for the ultimate, extreme, grand master geeks or get rid of them altogether. I think they detract from the overall demeanor of the site.

Rick
07-04-2002, 08:30 AM
I for one could care less about avatars .
As you can see I am still using the Old Icons

I also understand that a Long Thread with these little beggars could slow the loading of a page for dialup users

Paul Komski
07-04-2002, 01:58 PM
Slow dial-up here; and my early impression of the new changes is that the pages are slower to load.

As for the avatars; I have turned them off so I almost don't know what all the bother is about.

The ability to rewrite one's geekiness is a great idea since it lessens the drive to post for geek status alone.

The raw data (time since joining and the number of postings) is all that's needed for newcomers to see who are particularly active and for how long. Regulars know this anyway.

kayofcircles
07-04-2002, 01:59 PM
I am trying not to over-react to the word "silly", but I have been extremely conflicted over this because I also do NOT want to interfere or object to people having fun. And it's an appearance not substance issue..but appearance is important sometimes too. So, I just "test flew" this by a female (might be only a female opinion, guys!) friend of mine online right now. I sent her a link to one of the current threads and asked her to go look and tell me what she thought..and she said this: "But maybe the guys just don't take it as seriously as others do, they're desensitized because they're into computers all the time and don't know that outsiders would be put off by a joke photo." among other not very nice comments that I will not paste in. She also said she would not post a question here...and that's what upsets me. I also wanted her to look because it occurred to me this morning that maybe the LARGE distracting aspect for me might have been about my 800x600 resolution, and maybe on her newer screen, she wouldn't even really notice them...but she did.

I want to go with the majority..I am a strong believer in democracy (particularly on this day)..but wanted to make another try at expressing my concerns and why I am in total agreement with Steve's "I think they detract from the overall demeanor of the site." Is there any possibility that we can have our cake and eat it too? Maybe a button on the top of a page along the lines of "turn off the pics" so that those who want pics can have them, but newcomers don't necessarily have to see them?

Pianorak
07-04-2002, 02:19 PM
To quote Kay: <<I am in total agreement with Steve's "I think they detract from the overall demeanor of the site." >>

Amen to that. And at the risk of sounding churlish I feel what we have gained so far in style we are about to lose in substance if we are not careful.

Edit: Something strange going on: Initial posting did not have Kay's quote and my response was for some unknown reason in italics. Hmmm.

Second edit: Quote still not there, hence this repeat:
<< I am in total agreement with Steve's "I think they detract from the overall demeanor of the site.">>

Paul Komski
07-04-2002, 02:19 PM
Kay
I would go along with something like that but have it the other way round. "Distracting"/"Demeaning" features turned off by default, but the ability to turn them on (should one desire it) once registered.

There are many new features that I like. It will take a while for everyone to settle down until they have finished playing with their new toys.

In another thread, you used a metaphor about visiting a clinic with the doctors all wearing masks etc. I think that clinic is a bit of a MASH unit. The ones working in it are mostly nutcases but are at the same time skilled and dedicated once the need arises.

My own serious concern is that the new elaborateness of the site (rather than the bells and whistles) might turn-off newcomers; particularly the not too computer savvy. Time will be the judge of that by watching the number of new registrants and levels of activity.

kayofcircles
07-04-2002, 02:41 PM
YES ..."the ability to turn them on (should one desire it) once registered." idea is much better, Paul. We have the most awesome techs on the Net..in my opinion..and I really don't want newcomers "judging" the forum by pics...cool or otherwise.

ErnieK
07-04-2002, 03:31 PM
On other forums that I have viseted one of the things I have wondered about at times is "Who are the Moderators". If the avitars were restricted to moderators only, with the word "Moderator" underneath. By doing this new users/visitors would be able to see at a glance who is responsible for the running of the forums.

Charles Kozierok
07-04-2002, 04:38 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kayofcircles
I am trying not to over-react to the word "silly", but I have been extremely conflicted over this because I also do NOT want to interfere or object to people having fun.

FWIW, the "silly" thing I meant was the complaints about who is "entitled" to have this new feature. Not objections to them in general.

And it's an appearance not substance issue..but appearance is important sometimes too. So, I just "test flew" this by a female (might be only a female opinion, guys!) friend of mine online right now. I sent her a link to one of the current threads and asked her to go look and tell me what she thought..and she said this: "But maybe the guys just don't take it as seriously as others do, they're desensitized because they're into computers all the time and don't know that outsiders would be put off by a joke photo." among other not very nice comments that I will not paste in.

The avatars are supposed to be for fun. Anyone who finds an avatar offensive should let me know by PM or email and I will deal with it (anonymously).

I have to concede that while I respect that you have an issue here, I can't understand what it is personally. For every person who thinks the forums have now been "trivialized" or made "distracting", there are likely several who consider making the forums more fun a pleasant change from the older ones that were "stiff" and "boring". I don't know what to say.

She also said she would not post a question here...and that's what upsets me.

Without knowing why she wouldn't post a question here, there's not much I can say, other than no site can be perfect for everyone.

I also wanted her to look because it occurred to me this morning that maybe the LARGE distracting aspect for me might have been about my 800x600 resolution, and maybe on her newer screen, she wouldn't even really notice them...but she did.

I will agree that the avatars could certainly be smaller. I will talk to the mods and perhaps we can change the size of the avatars to make them smaller.

I want to go with the majority..I am a strong believer in democracy (particularly on this day)..but wanted to make another try at expressing my concerns and why I am in total agreement with Steve's "I think they detract from the overall demeanor of the site." Is there any possibility that we can have our cake and eat it too? Maybe a button on the top of a page along the lines of "turn off the pics" so that those who want pics can have them, but newcomers don't necessarily have to see them?

This feature already exists, which is part of why I don't understand what the issue is. Go into the User Control Panel. Edit Options. Set "Show user's avatar in their posts?" to "No". Hit "Submit Modifications".

That's it, you'll never see an avatar again.

Did you not realize this feature was present? Certainly understandable due to the number of new features. But if you can turn them off entirely, why is it such a problem if others like them? :confused:

Charles Kozierok
07-04-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Paul Komski

I would go along with something like that but have it the other way round. "Distracting"/"Demeaning" features turned off by default, but the ability to turn them on (should one desire it) once registered.

"Distracting"? Fine, I don't agree but I can understand it. "Demeaning"? What is demeaning about a small picture in the border? :confused:

Rick
07-04-2002, 04:56 PM
IXL

I did much the same thing that Kay did
I asked my wife ( Computer Illiterate ) to open the forum links and look around

Her reaction was nothing special to the Avatars or anything else.
Until I told her to change her settings.
There in lies the problem for the new user

The “user CP” button
She had NO idea what it was and wasn’t willing to even explorer it till I told her it was the
User Control panel

This could present a possible problem with new users

Vic 970
07-04-2002, 05:27 PM
Grand Master Geeks and above

I do not want to see the site over run with them, but the occasional one (at present) does add a little something to the 'feel' of the site. and I did notice that we could switch them off, so I'm happy with that too.

and if you any doubt IXL about this or any other issue, maybe just keep to the old 'system' until there is reason to change it ?

we are of course all still exploring our new home, and for the many features/options that I have found so far, there are a LOT more that I've missed. and I'm sure that goes for most of us. it will no doubt take us a while to 'tailor' the system.

but so far :) :) :)

Paul Komski
07-04-2002, 05:28 PM
ixl The quotation marks were supposed to indicate that this was how others have already described some features. I nearly did, and should have, suffixed the adjectives with (sic) to emphasise this. Some people are obviously not happy; well so far anyway! LOL. :D

A great deal of work, thought and effort has gone into the redesigning of this site and in making many features customisable for the users. IMHO it is much too early to be over-critical or vice versa.

Even though I am familiar with the basic templates (now upgraded and embellished) of the pages here and of the forum structure, I have found the new setup relatively daunting. My main concern is that if that is the case for me - then how must it be for a newcomer? But then I am, of course, a bit of a retard! ;)

Ghost_Hacker
07-04-2002, 06:05 PM
This whole thing just reminds me of something.

Folks just don't like change. Good or bad doesn't matter,just the act of change can sometimes just not "set" with some. Oh well.... :)

To help new users perhaps we can come up with some extra "FAQs" that can help them to learn to use the options of this site. So that we help to increase their knowledge rather than decrease the funtionality of the site.


As for people who judge a site or a poster by "looks"...Well that's their lost. :)

schooch
07-04-2002, 07:05 PM
I second GH....nobody likes change. I myself do! I tried with and without the avatar. I'll keep it on. Thanks ixl

sea69
07-04-2002, 07:50 PM
personally- I like the new forums quite a bit.

The features will take a little learning for some to even appreciate them or know what they do. This is part of the learning process. As people stay they will become aware of these features, learn to use and appreciate them compared to less functional boards, why not have these features here to BEGIN with, as pointed out above they can be adjusted by each individual.

One comment I saw was very good, except I would reverse the order.

There seems to be concern about new "browsers" being turned off by our expressing our own individualities, therefore perhaps by default these options could all be turned off- until one joins and THEN they would have the option to adjust them for themselves.

how's that??

;)

kayofcircles
07-05-2002, 10:51 AM
sea : Your "There seems to be concern about new "browsers" being turned off by our expressing our own individualities, therefore perhaps by default these options could all be turned off- until one joins and THEN they would have the option to adjust them for themselves." is what Paul suggested above and what I am thinking would certainly solve the problem. setoguro said that he liked the atavars because it gave him another insight into the "personalities" here. Yeah..totally agree with that..the only problem is that some newcomer, who doesn't "know" the master will react to the atavar according to their own taste and perceptions, and since they haven't been here long enough to know that our tech masters are extremely intelligent..they're only reacting to their perceptions. And, let's be honest about this, we all have some preconceived perceptions that come into play when meeting new people..and one aspect of the Net is that people cannot be judged by their appearances.

Ghost : You're absolutely right..I hate changes, particularly those forced upon me. I am a rut person, and like to wallow happily in my little ruts. But, I was allowing for that and although muttered a bit, made some "habit" changes to my daily schedule and actually like some of the new stuff. Like being able to skip to last page of a post..can't do the "first unread" stuff cuz need a "refresher"..but like the skip. Like the breaking of the post into several pages..might actually be able to go back and read/admire some of those awesome After Hours posts (like the one on screenshots that sea did awhile back) that locked up my puter before. Like the new link to website insert. Etc.

However, I disagree with the statement "As for people who judge a site or a poster by "looks"...Well that's their loss." because it could very well be our loss too. We have "new" talent/people coming in all the time. Some of them stay after fixing their original problem, learn, and contribute enormously to the site. I come here to help if I can and learn..and yes, without the After Hours club, it would have gotten "dry" after awhile. I figure that if I can handle the easy questions from newbies..then you master techs can focus on the "hard" stuff. And there have been days when I haven't needed to do anything because some of our newer members were handling the newbie stuff quite well..and even days when I saw that the masters didn't need to "work" at all and could focus on their putting "food on the table" job, or just relax and do something else.

ixl : Is it not possible to "flip" the default view? To do what Paul and Sea suggested...to have the forum appear pretty much as it did before, and then provide them with a bit of detailed instructions after joining as to turning off/on atavars and other features? I didn't even know what an "atavar" was! Figured it out, but I like to think that I am a bit more puter savvy now than some of our newcomers.

sea69
07-05-2002, 11:28 AM
my mistake, I must have had a momentary dyslexic attack.

Paul said the same thing I did but first- I saw it backwards somehow.

:eek:

;)

Charles Kozierok
07-05-2002, 12:18 PM
I'm tied up with family affairs this weekend and don't have time to respond in detail to the points raised.

I am picking up a tone that seems to indicate that certain people thinks they "trivialize" the forums or make them less "professional". Well, my response to this is that, frankly, I don't care. I have no idea where the concept came about that these forums are supposed to be "professional" -- they are not.

The goal of the forums is to provide a place for computer professionals and enthusiasts to participate in discussions, share information and otherwise engage in social interaction to help each other solve problems and learn. There is nothing "professional" about the forums. We strive to prevent swearing and other crude behavior here, but that's to keep the forums "friendly" and not to keep them "professional".

To be perfectly honest, I agree with GH: if people come here and are "turned off" by seeing a few pictures in the margins, I don't really care if they leave. Those who are already part of the forums should not have to worry about what newcomers will think about simple features that add some color and enjoyment to the forums. It's not like we are posting pornography or anything else actively obscene; they are just small pictures. If people are expecting "professional" behavior then they should look elsewhere.

That said, I will give consideration to a hack that suppresses the avatars for those who are unregistered. This would be primarily to save server resources for guests to the forums. Those who are registered can turn them off, as we have discussed. I believe this is basically what Sean suggested.

I do not see sufficient support amongst those who want the avatars turned off to support having them off by default for new registrations.
I will be sure to provide specific instructions for doing this in the "FAQ" forum -- when I have time. I realize the forums have a lot of new complexities, which is why I created the "FAQ" forum in the Admin section. But I only have so much time and have spent most of my forum time dealing with the code and features. The FAQs will come.

kayofcircles
07-05-2002, 12:41 PM
ixl : Okay, I understand your post and wish to apologize for causing you any aggravation...which was never my intention. Please have a wonderful weekend.

Paul Komski
07-05-2002, 04:50 PM
ixl I'll second Kay on that: have a good break - you truly deserve it. This is, was and always will be your "baby" - everyone knows that - and you have every right to be a proud father. Please understand that anyone's concern about the way the baby is growing up is utterly distinct and quite different from unadulterated criticism. Parents with teenagers are likely to know exactly what I mean. I think it is far healthier for any concerns to be expressed and later found out to be wrong than for there to be silence, even if the end result is a perfect one. Good on you.

jabarnutcase
07-05-2002, 06:58 PM
All I can say is Well put ixl

Actually, I can't even believe this thread has gone on this long.

The more I "Play" with the new features of this forum, the nicer I think it is. And "newcomers" will learn just like the rest or us are learning.

And when they do, they will come to know this as the best place on the web if they have a computer problem!

So lets have fun, and learn, and help others to learn! :D :D :D


And please , no hard feelings for this post for those of you that don't like certain features- I think it's GREAT !

RKBA
07-07-2002, 09:41 AM
Kay never followed up on her friend's reason for saying that she "would not post a question here...", but I suspect the reason is because of the "geek" icons. Perhaps I'm way off base, but I know that my own reaction when I first visited this forum was something along the lines of "Oh, I see... They have a caste system all set up, and inferior members without a lot of status symbols underneath their names are supposed to bow and scrape to their superiors." Yes, I was turned off by that aspect of this forum and still am for that matter, even though virtually all forums have some type of status symbols for high volume posters whether it be titles, stars, or "geek symbols". I think they're totally unnecessary since a member's post count speaks for itself. Quantity doesn't necessarily equate to quality however. I've seen forums where total jerks had huge post counts, and sometimes they were known troublemakers whose posts disrupted the forum routinely.

This is by far one of the most conservative and orderly of any of the forums I've seen, and the fact that is this way with very little action on the part of moderators is a testament to the maturity of everyone here. In fact I was amazed to see a thread discussing the merits of avatars at all. If they slow down the server significantly then disable them, otherwise enable them for everyone (or at least for paying members - and no, I didn't vote because that wasn't one of the choices). I think they should be small enough so that they don't distract from the text too much however (I think around 60x60 pixels is a good size). I've seen some forums with so many huge animated GIFs all over the place the text was hard to find, much less read. Those who have slow dial-up connections can easily disable all graphics from within their browser. BTW, "Avatar" usually means an image selected from a predefined list. If we can't chose our own pictures, then I think they're a waste of time because they wouldn't reflect anything of our own personalities or preferences. Personally what I'd like to see, is a recent picture of everyone next to their posts so that I could associate a face with their text.

IMHO, if you want PC Guide to be an elitist forum frequented only by select members of the inner circle and unfriendly to outsiders, then by all means give "special" members titles of nobility, privileges and insignia that set them apart from the proletariat lower class rabble. If you want newcomers to feel welcome here, then treat them as equals. If they stay, they will eventually form their own opinions as to who deserves their respect and admiration, and no amount of artificially bestowed symbols or icons will change that. If they don't stay, then it doesn't matter anyhow. I was born to a family of farm laborers and grew up poor until I got my first computer job in 1968, so I dislike anything that smacks of elitism and snobbery. If any of you have ever been ridiculed for using an outhouse because your family couldn't afford indoor plumbing, you'll know what I mean.

One last point - I don't understand all the concern over the "complexities" of the vBulletin software. I think it is vastly superior to the old UBB software, and is easier to use. It's not as though vBulletin is some totally new forum software never before seen by the eyes of men (and Kay;)) on the Internet. Quite a few forums use it, and there is even a support forum (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/) dedicated entirely to vBulletin software. If a member is too lazy to read the FAQ's (which BTW I think are already adequate to get a new member started) or to figure out the answer for themselves, they could simply post their question in the Suggestion Box (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=10) or one of the other PC Guide forums and someone could probably answer it.

-- Ron

Charles Kozierok
07-08-2002, 06:44 PM
Kay, Paul: I don't have any problem with criticism and am glad that you brought up the issues you raised. The reality is that we are all individuals who will have opinions that don't necessarily agree. I don't want to "rule" this place as I see fit but rather ascribe to the wishes of the bulk of the users here. While I recognize your concerns, I think the current mechanisms are sufficient to address them.

I am going to do something about the avatar size.

Originally posted by RKBA
Kay never followed up on her friend's reason for saying that she "would not post a question here...", but I suspect the reason is because of the "geek" icons. Perhaps I'm way off base, but I know that my own reaction when I first visited this forum was something along the lines of "Oh, I see... They have a caste system all set up, and inferior members without a lot of status symbols underneath their names are supposed to bow and scrape to their superiors." Yes, I was turned off by that aspect of this forum and still am for that matter, even though virtually all forums have some type of status symbols for high volume posters whether it be titles, stars, or "geek symbols". I think they're totally unnecessary since a member's post count speaks for itself. Quantity doesn't necessarily equate to quality however. I've seen forums where total jerks had huge post counts, and sometimes they were known troublemakers whose posts disrupted the forum routinely.

Agreed with this in general terms, and I believe I said this earlier in this thread (or was it the similar one in After Hours, not sure.) Anyway, the idea behind these things was to just add a bit of spice to the forums. The "geek" level doesn't indicate anyone's expertise, just how much they have decided to post here on the forums. We can each figure out the limitations of such a metric.

As for "bowing and scraping to superiors", again, that's specifically why I chose clearly jocular titles. Calling someone an "Exalted Grand Master Geek" should be considered the equivalent of the "Grand Poobah" of the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes on the Flintstones, or whatever it is. :) Geeks aren't usually the objects of much fawning. :)

BTW, "Avatar" usually means an image selected from a predefined list. If we can't chose our own pictures, then I think they're a waste of time because they wouldn't reflect anything of our own personalities or preferences.

That's why there are no predefined avatars.

Personally what I'd like to see, is a recent picture of everyone next to their posts so that I could associate a face with their text.

But 99% of people will never do that, for a variety of reasons -- they just use cutesy or fun images. And that's why this feature is just a perk -- because it really serves no specific functional purpose.

IMHO, if you want PC Guide to be an elitist forum frequented only by select members of the inner circle and unfriendly to outsiders, then by all means give "special" members titles of nobility, privileges and insignia that set them apart from the proletariat lower class rabble.

Eh, you're being a bit hyperbolic here Ron. The "titles of nobility" and insignia have been here since the very start. They were just for fun, and still are just for fun. The "lower class rabble" for the most part has no problem with this, and I know many people enjoy watching their "rank" increase as they participate.

To be honest, I think that perhaps elitism is a bit overcriticized. I am sure I will incur the wrath of some people here for saying this, but I always speak my mind: not all the participants here are equals -- most of those with 1,000, 2,000 or more postings have spent a lot of time and energy getting to those levels and bringing up the forums as they did so. That doesn't mean that those who have participated less are not valued, just that they have participated less. While I would never make the forums so that those who are experienced had a significant advantage or benefit over newcomers, I don't think the logical equivalent of a "gold pin for N years' service" is out of line.

Anyway, while participation in the poll has been meager, it does suggest to me that most people are reasonably happy with the setup as it is. I will make a few changes, however.

c

sea69
07-08-2002, 06:52 PM
was actually the first rename I did as that option 1st became available to me- anyone else see that??


then I changed it back to the "default"- cause some said we were being silly, I guess I get to be "exhalted" level because that's the next level (number of posts) after "Grand Master", and then someone was somewhat criticle of that so I changed it to what it is now.


hehe

;)

Charles Kozierok
07-08-2002, 07:44 PM
Ya know, I kinda like the "Grand Poobah" now that I think about it.

Wish I could get one of those nifty hats though. :)

c

Paul Komski
07-08-2002, 07:46 PM
What a great place this is. I might even be sad when the froth from this minor storm settles.

:D :p :D

iisbob
07-08-2002, 09:14 PM
I wouldn't mind it if people judged be by my avatar, i think ol Bill had the right idea about the world-and could generally sum it up in one word;
ACKKKK!!! :D


As for the " geek " icon's and titles; eh...i could care less about them -i know what i know-and so does my employer. Not too mention that if you read my posts you can see that i at least have some clue about how to use/fix a PC.

For me, being in a stuffy business world all day-it's nice to be able to help people and have some fun. As ixl pointed out, this is not supposed to be a " stuffed " shirt forum-but a place of learning and fun.

Wish more businesses adopted this casual attitude, maybe then they'd keep more of their good IT pro's around.

RKBA
07-08-2002, 09:57 PM
Notwithstanding everyone's opinions of personalized graphics (aka; Avatars) and "geek" icons, I am nonetheless very curious as to why Kay's unnamed friend said the following (boldfaced in the quote below):


Originally posted by kayofcircles
...
And it's an appearance not substance issue, but appearance is important sometimes too. So, I just "test flew" this by a female (might be only a female opinion, guys!) friend of mine online right now. I sent her a link to one of the current threads and asked her to go look and tell me what she thought..and she said this: "But maybe the guys just don't take it as seriously as others do, they're desensitized because they're into computers all the time and don't know that outsiders would be put off by a joke photo." among other not very nice comments that I will not paste in. She also said she would not post a question here... and that's what upsets me.
...
Kay, are you out there? Perhaps you could clarify?

-- Ron

kayofcircles
07-09-2002, 11:39 AM
Sorry, Ron. Yes, I am still perusing but husband said I was obsessing and ordered me to take a break..lol. He said wisely that the only way we shall know if there's any effect from recent changes is to wait and see.

Okay, as regards your question, I need to tell you that my friend is a professional female in her late thirties (so a certain mindset there, okay?) and she has NO interest in computers as long as they work. In other words, if hers emails and surfs, that's all she cares about. Another thing I need to say first is that my understanding is that some of the avatars she saw last week are no longer there, but she thought then that one in particular was obnoxious and distracting. She said then that it appeared like a bunch of juveniles fooling around and that she wouldn't post here because they didn't seem "serious." Charles stated quite clearly in an above post that "professional" is not a concern, so okay.

I spoke with her yesterday on the telly, and asked her about the "elite" aspect that you were speaking of above. She said that did come into play somewhat..that she saw the "status" stuff, and that sometimes puter techs tend to be arrogant and condescending to those who know a lot less. I told her that I had only very, very rarely seen anything close to that here at this forum.

My husband's right..as is the case fairly often. :) Let's just wait and see how it shakes out.

Vic 970
07-09-2002, 01:47 PM
I 'found' the forum when I was desperately in need of help, I posted a question, and what I saw was many friendly helpful people (wiser than me) who were ready & willing to give their time (willingly & freely) to help someone that they didn't know, to solve a problem with a pc.

It was such a friendly & interesting place that I stayed, & have continued to learn (& hopefully passed on some of what I've learned along the way.

This place is not about avatars or status, as anyone who has been here a while knows, it's about enthusiasts helping and learning from each other.

kay must coment about your friend, it appears from what you say that she is not interested in computers, and that's ok, but as such she wouldn't come here anyway, so I'm afraid I can't give here remarks much credence.
and that is in no way meant to be derogitory, each to their own.

Matt
07-09-2002, 03:55 PM
Wow, a lot of thought has gone into this avatar business! Well, here is my one and a half cents on the whole deal:

Would like the ability to post a neat avatar to express myself, will wait, and earn the ability to do so, may take a while, but will wait.

Like the new look of the site, was a bit of a change, but I think it was a change for the better. :D

Mark Miller
07-09-2002, 05:43 PM
I am very new to this site and one of the reasons I like it so much is because of the avitars, they add personality and show how people want to be viewed. As far asI am concerned, NICE TOUCH.
Mark :)

Eutychus
07-09-2002, 10:47 PM
I have participated in several other forums. Some allow avatars for all, some eliminated them altogether. One, that might cramp some styles but helped with the slow dialups, limited avatars to 48 x 64 pixels and about 6KB file size.

But the current system is fine with me. Anyone who devotes enough time helping others and earn the distinction also deserve the honor. There are plenty of us who only pop in once in awhile or post a few and disappear. The members who stick with it day in and day out are the real heroes & heroines.

sea69
07-09-2002, 10:52 PM
I saw on one forum where the members were all rated by their fellow members, I don't know how they did this (setup) but I liked that.

and while content is more important than quantity, consistency and longevity cannot be discounted.



;)

Mark Miller
07-09-2002, 11:21 PM
I think rateing other people is not a good idea at all. What one might think is silly is what another feel is cool. Diversity is important. I would not feel comfortable judging anyone, or have someone judge me.I mean no direspect, but hope this does not happen. Reward for the good stuff{avitars} forget the rest.
Mark

sea69
07-09-2002, 11:54 PM
allow me to elaborate; I meant that people who felt inclined could rate the member that helps them out- in other words people that actually help could get like a vote or credit from the person they helped... that way the value of the post in terms of actually being helpful to people that the post solves the problem for.

say if myself and 50 other people were helped immensely by a post of YOURS where you explain a solution to a problem- we could all "vote" for you on the value and helpfulness of that information

it would be like a thumbs up type thing where people who provide good answers and useful information get rated accordingly.

you wouldn't be "judging" anyone, you would have the opportunity to thank them (anonymously)- the rest of everything we already have here could stay as it is.

that's real.

;)

edit: this is the LONGEST "Once and for all" segment ever!

edit#2)


Member Ratings
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;)

Mark Miller
07-10-2002, 11:13 AM
Sorry I misunderstood what you meant. Rateing the replys does make sense. Thanks for clarification.
have a great day Mark

Dazzler
07-11-2002, 07:23 PM
G'day People.

I'd just like to offer my opinion on avatars.

I feel it's the energetic and influential question respondents that assist in greatly making this forum an outstanding forum. Recognition to those people is not only fitting but; deserving.

If avatars is the easiest way for the owner/moderator/administrator to recognise individual efforts, then I applaud those efforts.

The point that I'm trying to make and one that I'm sure we all agree on, is that the major question respondents do deserve something, however small it may be. Those people that feel like wearing that recognition, then wear it with pride.

Personally, I'm not focused with increasing my "geek icons/symbols" or earning an avatar. I'm, like the majority of us, am only interested in asking a polite question and hoping for a polite answer. And if I can help someone along the way, then that's a bonus.

I also feel that any other responsible new forum user would feel the same; he/she just wants their computer question answered.

Once again these are just my personal thoughts and in no way are meant to conflict/offend others.

Ciao,
Dazzler.