Boot or power problem. Afraid to turn off system.

[Dinosaur]

My older system is about 2.5 years old. It is a Pentium II 350Mhz CPU in an ASUS P2B AGP Motherboard with Intel 440BX AGPset.

For a few months now, it has been a bit of a problem after being shut down. Today, it was so bad that I am afraid to turn it off until I can back up everything to the new system I am now installing software on.

Symptoms as follows.

Shut down Windows 98 (SE), which automatically powers off the System.
Turn off all power via switch on surge protector.
Next day, turn on switch on surge protector.
If I try to turn computer on immediately, it acts as if there is no power.
Usually must wait several minutes before pushing button on Tower to boot up.
Sometimes it starts & dies before booting. If this happens, retrying immediately results in no response at all.
Must turn off power via surge protector. Leave off for a few minutes and try again.
As before, it seldom works if I push button on tower immediately after supplying power via the surge protector. Must wait several minutes before trying to boot.

This morning, the system sounded like a car with a weak battery grinding away. I did not think it would ever boot. I went through my procedure at least 6-10 times before it booted.

Should I replace the power supply?

Is there a way via CMOS or Windows 98 to prevent Windows from shutting off power to the computer? If so, might this help?

Could a weak CMOS battery be to blame?

Does anybody have any ideas?

The system is running okay now, but I am afraid to turn it off in order to open the case without having a good idea of what to do. I think it would be safe to restart in order to allow use of CMOS setup.

Thanx for any advice I can get.

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Gouverneur
Eschew Obfuscation!
If one hundred million people believe a foolish idea, it is still a foolish idea.

[Rick]

It does in fact sound like a power problem.
However it may also be the surge protector that is bad Not just the power supply.

Depending on the Bios. You may be able to change the power button to sleep or suspend mode instead of shutdown But that is of little or no use in your case.

I'd start by plugging the system into a clean outlet without the surge protector.
Then I'd install a new power supply.
I would also check power SW connector at the mother board make sure it is making good contact

The cmos batt should not cause this kind of problem.
If it were week of dead it would only cause the cmos to forget what you have for hardware installed/connected to the system

[tjaymadison]

Sounds like a bearing failing somewhere. There are only so many. Fans -- Power supply, CPU heatsink, or a case fan. Hard drive or CD-ROM motor. Can you get the case off (carefully) without shutting down? You might be able to isolate the noise better that way.

[Randy_tx]

The "sounds like a weak starter" is USUALLY the power supply.....any of the other motors/fans would not prevent boot up except if it was the hard drive. I have had MANY systems come in with the same problem and the solution was a new SURGE Protector...they DO go bad and dont allow enough juice to get to the Pwr Supply. If the sound continues with it plugged straight into a wall.....follow TJ's plan to isolate which item is producing the noise.

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"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[Dinosaur]

Thanx, folks. You have given me some good ideas for tracking this down. Glad I can forget about the CMOS battery as a source of the problem.

From what you say, it looks like the power supply. A few experiments based on your suggestions should tell the tale.

I can read/write to all the hard drives. This suggests that they are okay. Is it possible for them to function after they get up to speed, but have problems starting from a powered down condition?

I have my second system plugged into the same surge protector. Is it possible that one or two outlets are bad and others are okay? I will try plugging the Tower into a wall socket as an experiment to check out the surge protector.

Before trying the wall socket, I will open the case and try to hear a disc or fan with a problem.

Next, I can try disconnecting the drives. This might not tell me anything. If power supply is the problem, it might function with one less drive.

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Gouverneur
Eschew Obfuscation!
If one hundred million people believe a foolish idea, it is still a foolish idea.

[Randy_tx]

"I have a second system plugged into the same surge protector" tells me even more about this situation! How many things are on the same circuit ? There is a great power requirement at initial boot up, so having too many things trying to draw current might be part of this problem as well. Ever tried plugging a electric hair dryer and a electric heater into the same outlet.........POW.....a circuit blows http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[mjc]

If you have two computers in the same surge protector and only one is acting up then that one problably requires more power when it is initially turned on. If the system in qustion has more than one drive and almost every slot full then any power supply below 250W is is going to be straining. If you take and add up the wattage rating of everything plugged into the surge protector and then divide by 110 you'll come up with an amperage. If that number is above 10A you are probably pushing the surge protector hard, if it is 15A or higher then I'm suprised you aren't blowing some fuses or tripping breakers, because it is overloaded. No, it isn't going to use all the power all the time but at initial power up it uses all that and more (a small electric motor rated at 1/2A can draw 3 or 4 times that much or more on startup)

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Do Vulcans even have to debug?

[Dinosaur]

Thanx for all the help. It resulted in the problem going away.

I plugged computer into another surge protector. I also opened the tower to listen to noise in hopes of identitying some fan or drive with a problem. The amount of dust in there was incredible. I cleaned it with a dust buster. It looks to me as thouhg a case should be opened every few months to get rid of dust, which cannot be good.

Unless the problem went away due to magic, an overloaded surge protector seems to have been the problem. The second system is still on the original protector, and it runs okay.

It is also possible that one outlet on the surge protector was flakey, since some symptoms occurred prior to having the second system.

At any rate, your suggestions got me to do something that worked. I had been living with the problem and waiting for the ultimate demise of the system.

Thanx again.

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Gouverneur
Eschew Obfuscation!
If one hundred million people believe a foolish idea, it is still a foolish idea.

[mjc]

Also, you said that it was extremely dusty inside, the extra dust wasn't helping the cooling any. Yeah, computers should be openned occasionally and have the dust cleaned out.

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Do Vulcans even have to debug?