Partitioning Drives!

[Cnowak]

I have heard of people that divide up their harddrive for better utilization and ease of use. I am thinking of partitioning my harddrive into 3 partitions. 1st for the new re-install . 2nd for a duplicate of the 1st for backup purposes. 3rd for ALL of my personal files including my e-mail from MS Outlook. With this configuration when I backup up my system I would need to just backup all of the 3rd Partition, which would be ALL of my personal files. How does this sound? Is there any documentation on how to do this Step by Step as I have never done this before.. I have also read about making the drives FAT32.. not sure what that means but should I do that as well. Any other suggestions would be appreciated..

My enviornment is:

Gateway Computer
Windows 98
20 Gig h/d
Office 2000

Thanks
Cas

[Budfred]

Welcome to PCGuide!!

I can't tell you too much about partitioning, but I can tell you that backing files up on the same harddrive is asking for trouble. If the HD fails, it is likely that you will lose the whole thing. You would be ok if it is a software problem on your primary partition, but you would be in trouble if it is a hardware problem. Keeping your personal files in a separate parititon should work well. I have heard that a free program called Ranish Partition Manager is good. You can find it at:

http://www.ranish.com/part/

Budfred

[Cnowak]

Thanks for the reply.. When I would backup my Personal files from the 3rd Partition I meant that I would back them up to a zip drive. That way I would always have a backup seperate from my computer.

[classicsoftware]

If your drive is already setup and working, I wpould get partition magic. It works great and you can move & re-size on the fly.

If you are getting a new drive or re-formating and old drive, I would download the tools from the manufacturuers web-site and you can partition the drive any way you want.

When I partition a drive:

Partition one (Drive C): The Operating system and select programs that are required to be installed on drive C:. (2-5 GB depending on size of the drive.

Partition Four: (Drive F) This is for the swap file 300MB to 3 GB depending on the amount of RAM. I like to keep the swap file at aleadt 5X RAM.

Partition Two: (Drive D) This partition is for programs. I install all programs on this partition. I use half of the remaining space after deducting for Partitions's one and four.

Partition Three: (Drive E) This is were I store the data. All data files are stored here including Word Processing documents, E-mail, etc. I use half of the remaining space after deducting for Partitions's one and four.

So for a system with a 40GB hard drive:

Drive C: 3 GB (Operating System)
Drive D: 17 GB (Programs)
Drive E: 17 GB (Data)
Drive F: 3 GB (Swap file)

[Fruss Tray Ted]

From what I read thast others have posted, Zip drives are unreliable and prone to failure.

Backing up threads:

One (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5526)

Two (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16101&highlight=backing+up+files)

Tie my shoe (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14526&highlight=backing+up+files)

three (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14511&highlight=backing+up+files)

Four (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15835&highlight=backing+up+files)

Find some more (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=14624&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

[Budfred]

Cnowak,

You said "2nd for a duplicate of the 1st for backup purposes" and that is what I was referring to for taking a risk of losing everything. It is usually going to be preferable to make a duplicate on a different drive so that you have that as backup if the first one fails. However, there are other good reasons to partition anyway.

Budfred

[classicsoftware]

I agree with Budfred, DO NOT backup on the same drive....

[Gallaeglagh]

I have a Zip drive on one of my comps and I have always found it to be reliable and ez to use for backing up files especially word and excel docs across my lil' home network. On the other hand I wouldn't fully rely upon it either. I believe in the old saying that "data doesn't really exist until it's backed up at least twice".

[UPENDRA UPADHYAY]

Partition Four: (Drive F) This is for the swap file 300MB to 3 GB depending on the amount of RAM. I like to keep the swap file at aleadt 5X RAM.

I never set this forth partition What is the use of this fourth partitioon? Is it makes any change on the performance of pc?

[classicsoftware]

Windows creates a swap file that uses the hard disk as RAM on an as needed basis. I like to keep this file on it's own partition as it does increase (by whatever little bit) performance.

[sleddog]

When a thread starts about partitioning, you can be sure to see as many varying opinions as there are posts! :)

Hard drive partitioning is something of a novel concept in the Windows world. Windows is really designed to run with a single partition -- the C: partition, or first primary partition of a harddrive. Doing anything else requires some "coaxing", in some cases some real arm-twisting.

On the other hand, hard drive partitioning is the norm in the Unix world. Running a Unix-type operating system on a single partition is something only the greenist newbie would do ;)

So perhaps we should look to the Unix world for some guidelines on how hard disk partitioning should be done. Typically you'd see separate partitions for:

1. the operating system kernel and associated boot files
2. swap file
3. software applications and libraries
4. temporary files that are created, deleted and generally managed by applications
5. user-created data files

There are many variations on that in the Unix world; I don't mean to start a Unix-partitioning argument here!

How does this relate to Windows? Well it is impossible to separate the windows boot kernel from all the rest of the bells and whistles applications that make your desktop. And while we have some software applications on a partition, we may as well put all software applications on the same partition.

classicsoftware recommends putting the swap file on its own partition so as to speed access. I'm not convinced that this is effective. Yes, putting the swap file on a separate physical drive can speed access. Unix systems insist on the swap file being on it's own partition, but the swap file works rather differently there so a direct comparison isn't very useful. I'd recommend keeping your swap file on the root partition of your drive.

Note that the Unix systems put temporary files on there own partition. This is to prevent applications running amok, filling up the harddrive and possible damaging other data. This is particularly important in a server environment. I think a separate partition for temporary files is an excellent idea under Windows as well, for the above reasons and others: tempoary files (e.g., web browser caches) are frequently small and very numerous. They create a lot of fragmentation on harddrives in Windows. With temp files splattered all over your hard drive, data files you save and applications you install also get fragmented. The easy solution is to put all temp files on their own partition and never bother defragging that partition.

User-created data files are the most important (IMO) files on your computer. They deserve a place of there own. With your data separated from your applications, it is easy to 'flatten' your C: drive, reinstall your operating system and software without disturbing your valuable data. The hard part of course is convincing your applications to put data files where you want them (in, say, E:\Addresses) and not in C:\Documents and Settings\sleddog\Application Data\Microsoft\Address Book :)

So, my simple partitioning scheme is:

1. Operating system, application software, associated libraries & swap file.

2. System temporary files, Internet browser caches, News reader cache, etc.

3. User data files

[classicsoftware]

Dear Sleddog:

Especially since WIN2K allows you to partition the drive with FAT32 for the OS drive and NTFS for ther other paritions I like to break it up.

Since I don't usually use MS products like office or outlook, I don't have the problem you encounter with the control fraks from Redmond deciding where mt data goes.

Since drives keep getting bigger and emptier, putting the swap file on a separate partiton may not be necessary as it used to be. But I like to keep the swap file on a separate partition since a full drive can get fragmented and performance can suffer....

[Bogart101]

B]sleddog[/B]

geee! nice expalnation on your part, even though i did not start this thread, i wanana thank you for that info.

well, everybody here is talaking aboout the swap file but no one even mention how can this be done or how rgis things work on a partitioned HDD. can u please expalin to us, the newbies, how can all this be done. well in my part i know the basic thing of partitioning hardrive and typicaly i set only two partiton, for my OS and files but this swap file and stuff is new to me. lastly how can you keep a temporary file, that windows use on a separate HDD? does a certain software do this stuff?

thanks.

[Paul Komski]

The swapfile (pagefile in NT OSes is a slightly different fish) is an area of HDD space that is used by applications when the RAM alone cannot cope with memory requirements. The default setting is to let Windows manage this file and this is what is recommended for inexperienced users, and in which case it dynamically adjusts its size as required (and which is one of the reasons why the drive on which it is running is likely to be easily fragmented).

Right Click MyComputer and select Properties and then on the Performance Tab click the Virtual Memory Button to see the options. If you decide to specify your own settings you should be able to select which drive you wish to use as well as set a minimum and maximum value.

There are various formulae that people use to set these; or you can monitor your memory usage over a period of time (and while using intensive memory applications) using the System Monitor and then set a maximum value, say 20%, greater than the maximum recorded on the Monitor.

[LadyGrey]

pagefile in NT OSes is a slightly different fish

My paging file in Win2000 is set as 384 min. 786 max. Is this about right do you think? I read that some set this for 5x the amount of RAM that they have, did I understand that right? So, should I reset mine to 1280 max.?
I have the space I think on my HDDs. Mine are partitioned just about in half on both of them. Would this make the computer run better to do this or should I just leave well enough alone?
Thanks very much. LG;)

[classicsoftware]

Dear LG;

I subscribe to the 5X RAM for the swap file.

If the system is running fine and you have plenty of free disk space, leave well enough alone.....

[sleddog]

Originally posted by LadyGrey


My paging file in Win2000 is set as 384 min. 786 max. Is this about right do you think? I read that some set this for 5x the amount of RAM that they have, did I understand that right? So, should I reset mine to 1280 max.?
I have the space I think on my HDDs. Mine are partitioned just about in half on both of them. Would this make the computer run better to do this or should I just leave well enough alone?
Thanks very much. LG;)

It would only make your computer run better if you are doing very memory-intensive tasks, like video editing or editing of complex vector graphics. And even then it would be beneficial only under certain circumstances:

1. If you are doing such tasks, then your applications may require large amounts of virutal memory, in excess of the minimum setting of 384mb. In that case Windows will increase the size of the pagefile. This resizing can slow your system (while it is actually happening), plus the new, larger pagefile may be fragmented (broken into pieces located at different places on your hard drive). A fragmented pagefile is less efficient for data transfer than a pagefile that is all in one piece.

2. The maximum setting is the limit to which Windows is 'allowed' to increase the pagefile. If your memory-intensive tasks demand more than 786mb of virtual memory, then you will receive an error message in Windows (actually, it is a useful error message, that tells you to increase your virtual memory settings).

The best way to determine an appropriate pagefile setting is:

1. Run your machine for a day or two without rebooting, doing all the tasks you normally do;

2. Open the Task Manager (press Ctrl-Alt-Del and click Task Manager);

3. Select the Performance tab and examine the results in the Commit Charge section:

Total: is the total amount of memory (real + virtual) in use at the moment.

Limit: is the total amount of memory (real + virtual) available.

Peak: is the highest memory usage (real + virtual) reached during this session -- i.e., since you booted Win 2000.

The 'Limit' should be a fair bit higher than the 'Peak', or else you may frequently encounter the error message I mentioned about. And of course you increase the 'Limit' by increasing the pagefile size.

Setting a huge pagefile when it is not required is (IMHO) only a waste of harddrive space. It is better to create a pagefile of a size suited to your real memory (RAM) and your usage pattern. A 384mb pagefile is a standard setting for a 'typical-use' PC with 256mb RAM. Once you've decided on an appropriate size (by watching Task Manager) then work on ensuring that the pagefile you create is not fragmented. But that's a topic for another thread :)

[LadyGrey]

Thanks so much for all the help. I think since the computer seems to be running ok I will leave well enough alone at this point. I do have an awful habit tho of roaming around and changing things just to see what happens.:D I have printed out all the good advice just to have it in case I get in a mess (which I have been known to do). I think now I'll go search the forum for instruction on backing up files. I've gotten lazy as I have the two HDs and I just keep all the programs I don't want to lose on the second drive. But as has been so stated here even that could go belly up on me at any time so I really need to learn to back things up the right way. Thanks again. LG;)

[sleddog]

Backing up from one harddrive to another is (IMHO) perfectly acceptable. This means two physical disks, not separate partitions on the same physical drive.

All you need is a good tool to help you do it, so it isn't a chore.

http://tp.lc.ehu.es/jma/win95.html

Scroll down the page to "Directory Compare". Its free, give it a try :)

[Budfred]

The probability of both drives failing at the same time is very small. The only exceptions to that would be in the case of an electrical event that fried everything, like lightening or a major power surge. So backing up from one drive to another is reasonably safe, but if you really really want to save those files, use another back-up as well.

Budfred

[aussieolie2]

From my experiance of partitioning in Windows (i am only talking about Windows), I have found that if the one OS has to access different patitions e.g. programs on C:, Music/movies on D:, and Docs & games on E: - Windows has a tendancy to wear down areas on the HDD, as it has to access some partitions more than others. This is what I belive and have heard.
Its ok using multiple OS's on seperate partitions as they dont need to ask the other partitions. Windows was not designed to use multiple partitions.
Anyway I know it can be faster using seperate patitions.

I would say use Partion Magic its great.

Olie