CPU Cooler ?

[dilsburger]

This is sort of an extension of earlier thread. I'm not satisfied with my CPU temp - 48C idle, 55 under load. I have intake and exhaust case fans and dual fans on my power supply. The box is on the floor and there is adequate room ventilation. It's not in one of those "computer desks". There is virtually no dust in the case and cpu fan etc. (the mobo/cpu/ram was replaced due to a mobo failure 2 months ago)

First Question - My "system" temp hangs around 40C always, is this the case temp, mobo, or other?

Second - Should I be looking at replacing the CPU cooler? I'm currently using a Cooler Master for Athlons. It only cost around $10....

Visited my retailer yesterday he has a Volcano 7+ for $29. Also he offered me a trade on my 1.4 T-Bird for an XP 1.8, the difference to me is only $27 for the CPU. I wouldn't expect to see much of a performance boost but the price seems right. Wouldn't the XP run a tad cooler?

I've read up on replacing these 2 components in this forum and elsewhere, and feel I could do it, but sort of have cold feet in case something goes wrong. I've spent alot of $$ lately and couldn't bear the thought of frying the CPU.

My biggest question to you guys is if it seems like I'm going in the right direction to get this temp down?? Thanks alot!

K7VTA3 2.1
1.4 T-bird
512MB 2100 DDR
SB Live Value
PNY GF4 Ti4200
500 watt PSU
30GB Western Digital HD
1 Floppy Drive
52x CDROM
LG 12x CDRW/DVD combo
* Front & rear case fans (2500 rpm) / dual fans on PSU.

[Rick]

48C to 55C is about normal for that chip.
The Volcano 7 may drop your temps down 1 or 2 C

I’d work on the over all system temp ( 40C ) if you drop that the cpu temp may also drop.
The inlet area of your case should not be blocked.
If the case is on floor and the floor is carpeted .
It may be reducing the air flow.
I place a plastic floor/rug protector under my desk for the chair
I extended it to include the system case.
Keeping the case off the rug and removing any restriction

I Personally would stick with the 1.4
As you say it won’t give you all that much of a boost

I have the MP1800's and they run at 48-55C also
Using Volcano 6+ and 5300 Rpm fans

[dilsburger]

If the case is on floor and the floor is carpeted .

The case is on medium-pile carpet. Sounds like good advice Rick. Thanks!

[BigBlue66]

I personally would opt for the XP 1800+. Can't remember how many actual Mhz that is, but it's more than a 1.4, plus it will run up to 23% cooler and has quantispeed architecture which supposedly provides up to a 25% boost in performance.

System temp, as measured by monitoring software is board temp. It will usually run a few degrees within actual case temp.

The Volcano 7+ will get you more than 1 to 2C cooler. The Cooler Master is just not cutting it.

If you want a really good heatsink, go with the Thermalright AX-7 which can be had for ~$24 and a good 80mm fan. I use an AX-7 with a 53cfm Mechatronics fan that keeps my XP 1900+ nice and cool. Another fan that's good is the 47cfm Panaflo. You can get the AX-7 and a good fan at almost any online vendor.

[dilsburger]

Thanks Big Blue. If I go the upgrade route - some of these better heatsinks have thermal tape on them. From what I've read I doubt it would do the job that the Arctic Silver compound would do, correct? Should that tape definately come off? Talked to someone today who left it on and applied a thermal compound..... not sure that's wise?

BTW - Rick, I got the box on a hard piece of plastic and system temp is holding at 34C & CPU 50C. (these temps are not under graphics stress)Both down 4-5C though..

[BigBlue66]

Heh, nope, it's not a good idea to use both the thermal pad and thermal grease. Tell that boy he had better re-do the HSF installation.

The AX-7 comes packaged with generic thermal grease and a thermal pad, but neither of them are applied. Or maybe it's just the thermal pad, can't remember now. Haven't bought any AX-7s for quite some time now. Anyway, the heatsink doesn't have anything on it. Get yourself some Arctic Silver III and follow the directions on their website.

If you happen to run across a heatsink that has a pad pre-applied, scrape it off with an old credit card or similar. Then use Goof Off, found at your local friendly neighborhood Walmart store, and clean the rest of the goop off. Then follow that with a final cleaning using isopropyl alcohol.

[dilsburger]

Thought I'd post back here. I compromised with the "upgrade" etc and I tried a Volcano 7+ with my T-bird 1.4 today at my retailer shop. I waited/watched while they did the dirty work. Was brand new out of the box - no thermal strip, nice shiney clean bottom. Arctic Silver 3 was applied about as good as any illustration I've seen.

Upon booting up the cpu temp climbed steadily to 55C and finally held, as opposed to low starting in 40's before settling about 48C as it had. The adjustable fan speed was even set to high - 6,000 rpm and case cover was off!

Removed the HSF, cleaned all surfaces with Goo Gone & isopropyl, tried again, same result.

Everybody scratched their you-know-whats,,, and I still have my Cooler Master HSF with same above-desirable temps.....

Was the HSF just bad? any thoughts, ideas, comments?

BB66 - there were no Thermalright heat sinks in the store so I tried this one. Seemed like the best one they had.

Thanks guys!

[mjc]

My guess is the heat sink was slightly cupped and not making even contact with the CPU, so only part of the HS was doing any work....

Solution: lap the heatsink, may not be a bad idea for your current heatsink, either.

[dilsburger]

This was in my thoughts from other posts I have read here. Didn't know how to tell if it was cupped by "eyeballing" it. I suppose you can't if it's ever so slight. Thanks mjc.

[dilsburger]

I completely forgot to ask this question last night.

After putting my Cooler Master HSF back on we let it idle for 20 mins or so with the case open and the CPU temp stayed at 43C. This is about 5C cooler than with the case closed.

Wouldn't this lead one to believe the heatsink is doing a fair job but the hot air is not getting moved out? My case fans are only 2500rpm.

[mjc]

The way to "eyeball" it is to take it off, use a straightedge (a metal ruler works well) and place it across the heatsink, with the straightedge standing on its edge, and then look across it (heatsink) at a light source, any gaps will show light.

Align it like the X in the below pic...diagonally from corner to corner, and also straight up the middle.

A cupped heatsink can also show a several degree drop by removing and reseating it....

[BigBlue66]

Originally posted by dilsburger
Wouldn't this lead one to believe the heatsink is doing a fair job but the hot air is not getting moved out? My case fans are only 2500rpm.

Yep, lower CPU temp with the case open is a sure-fire way to tell if your case airflow is adequate. In your case, it isn't.

Are you using a standard mid-tower case? Are there spaces for extra fans or just the standard intake and exhaust 80mm fans?

If you can only use two fans, then by all means, find yourself some better case fans. You should consider cfm output, not rpms. I would say anything over 40cfm would be good. You can get a 47cfm Panaflo that would work well, but there are other cheaper ones, like Top Motor, that kick out just as many cfms.

Just as important as good fans is a tidy case. Do you use rounded cables? They work well for not restricting airflow. Even if you use standard ribbon cables, you should at least bundle them up and try to get them out of the way of the airflow.

EDIT: Additionally, you could use a System Blower to help with exhausting hot air. They fit in an open PCI slot. If you case will allow it, try to mount inbetween the video card and the HSF area. It doesn't hurt to have more exhaust than intake and sometimes will help matters.

[dilsburger]

I was wondering if I should upgrade both intake & exhaust fans but from reading your reply I know I should.

I added a blower yesterday, may have helped 1-2C.

Have no more room for rear fans just the standard 80mm front & rear.

While I have bundled the cables up I'll see if i can improve on that.

Knew of CFM but didn't know a recommended number, thanks.

Had retailer look into getting Thermalright ax-7 HS

I can't imagine having any more questions on the subject! I've learned a great deal. Thanks so much guys!!

[BigBlue66]

Hope you can get it sorted out. The main problem here is you have the hottest TBird they made.

I ran that same processor for a long time before I tossed it in my son's direction. We have both managed to get the processor to run in the high thirties to mid-forties under load. We had to modify a few things in order for that to happen though.

First, we modified the front of the case to house a 120mm fan that kicks out around 126cfm. We also added a 92mm top blowhole set to exhaust and used a fan with low to moderate cfm. Next, we used 47cfm Panaflos for the rear exhaust. We also used a PSU with two fans, one to suck the hot air off the CPU/HSF area and blow it out the back of the PSU. Next, we both cut a hole in the side of our case, right over the HSF. We used a fan duct which was cut to length so it butted right up to the HSF, thereby enabling the fan on the heatsink to blow outside air onto the heatsink. As for the HSF, we both used a lapped, funnelled and ducted AX-7 w/53cfm Mechatronics fan. By funnelled, I mean that we took an old 80mm fan we had lying around and gutted it so that just the fan shell remained. We then placed that inbetween the AX-7 and the Mech fan to create a funnel (I don't recommend this procedure with a low cfm fan) which not only helped to get rid of the fan's deadspot, but got the whole thing closer to the side of the case to draw in fresh outside air all that much easier.

As you can see, good cooling is a matter of several variables. The more you can do, the cooler that chip should run. If you would like detailed instructions with some pics of the final product, email me. I think my work addy is listed here. I'm on vacation this week, so could get back to you next week.

[dilsburger]

As you can see, good cooling is a matter of several variables. The more you can do, the cooler that chip should run.

Yes I definately got the picture now!;)

Upon further consderation I think I'm going to opt for a CPU upgrade to an XP CPU since he's willing to give me $70 for the T-Bird and some higher CFM case fans, as opposed to hacking up my case:D since I'm not very handy with a jigsaw.

From there I feel I should be able to run consistant 40's from what I've experienced and learned here. If not, then I've learned again.:) Thanks once more for your time and interest!

[SirPaladin]

From arcticsilver.com (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as3.htm):

"Important Reminder:
Due to the unique shape and sizes of the silver particles in Arctic Silver 3, it will take a minimum of 72 hours, and as many as 200 hours to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink.) The CPU's temperature will drop as much as 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period."

This may be the reason temps appeared high for the intial period.

[BigBlue66]

Originally posted by dilsburger
Upon further consderation I think I'm going to opt for a CPU upgrade to an XP CPU since he's willing to give me $70 for the T-Bird and some higher CFM case fans, as opposed to hacking up my case:D since I'm not very handy with a jigsaw.

Excellent choice. You should have no more cooling problems.

I was amazed when I went from the 1.4 TBird 266 to an XP 1900+. The temps were almost unbelievable, and this is with a motherboard that reads temps from the internal diode in the CPU core.

You will enjoy cool temps and more performance.