freaky video card

[alex666]

Can dirt crap out a video card? I was not able to boot up my computer last night. Got weird letters all over the screen. This occurred when I went into the bios, and if I tried to boot into an OS (XP, W98se, or Mandrake), I got a black screen with faint letters moving rapidly across the screen. I fiddled with wires etc. and then finally removed my PNY Geforce 4 Ti 4400 that I bought 3 months ago. This is not a cheap card, the most expensive item for a computer I ever have purchased, my mid-life crisis, one month of my 5 y.o. son's college fund, etc., etc. A happy camper I was not. I installed another card, it worked fine. As I examined the 4400, which I've owned for 3 months, I noticed that it was amazingly dirty. So I cleaned it thoroughly tonight, reinstalled, and it seems to work perfectly. Is it possible that dirt caused all this? Or is this just coincidence? I should note that I had installed some beta drivers from nvidia on thw winxp partition a few days earlier. But this shouldn't have caused problems when I went into the bios, or could it somehow. Those drivers have been since removed now. I've been running it for about 4+ hours tonight, so far, so good.
Geez, I'm getting a weird yellow color surrounding my cursor as I type this, only in the window in which I am typing. Never saw this before. Now some of the letters are turning blue, again, only in the window in which I am typing. Now the colors went away. And now they are back. And no, I am not doing drugs.
Thanks in advance.

Marty
Verona, VA

[alex666]

I had to shut down my computer for a few minutes, as I started to get some colors even when I was on the windows desktop while in XP. Now I'm in 98se, no problems, but I doubt the OS is going to have an effect. This is my second 4400. I returned the first, O got a similar effect after only owning it for a few hours. Okay, here come the colors, my screen is getting real weird. Could this be a voltage problem? I gotta go.

[ski]

That card runs hot, and any accumulated dust, dirt, etc., will drastically reduce its heat sink's efficiency and cause it to overheat. This will create the problems you're experiencing.
You may want to consider installing filters on your computer's vents.
And make sure the card's fan is running at the proper speed.

[alex666]

I want to update this. This AM (EST), I turned on the computer with the card in it, ran fine for a little bit, I went into the bios, and then started getting the weird screen, i.e., missing letters, different letters, lines, etc. I very lightly jiggled the video cable at the point where it connects to the video card, and that affected what I saw on the screen (jiggling it by the monitor or jiggling the whole cable had no effect). Generally, it tended to clear up the screen. Not completely. There were short periods of say 15" when the screen was just fine, and then without touching the cable, it would start again. I'd jiggle the cable by the video card connection, and it would at least partially clear up. Very clearly, if I jiggled the cable at the point of the connection to the video card, I got an effect, an improvement. My next step will be to try a different monitor. This is a Dell P992 19" monitor, beautiful monitor, but the video cable does not detach from the monitor, at least that I can see. But this is the same effect I got from the first 4400 I had after only a few hours and using a different monitor. Now, I have plenty of fans running, and using WPcredit, my temps are usually in the low 30sC. That's not to say the video card is not running hot. I'm not sure how to tell if the fan on the card is running at the right speed. I certainly can look for that. For what it's worth, I bought both of these cards at the same Circuit City (they took back the first one no questions asked); could this be a bad batch of cards? This sure seems like it's a short or something. Also, I did carefully follow the PNY directions on the proper bios settings for this card. I did not do that for the first card, and figured maybe that is why the first one was acting weird. This one has run fine for three months, and now it's doing the same thing with the appropriate bios settings still in place. Thanks.

Marty
Verona, VA

[ski]

If 2 different monitors got the same results, then it's very possible that there was a bad run of video cards.

Also, this card is larger than most video cards, and there could be something around the AGP slot that's preventing the card from properly seating in the slot.
To check this, remove the screw that secures the card in place, push on the card to make sure it's firmly seated(sometimes a hard push is needed for it to properly seat), and check that the card is clearing all objects around it. If not, then you may have to get a different card.
If nothing is interfering with the card's seating, then note the orientation of the card in the AGP slot when looking at the card from the side(like a billboard), reinstall the screw, and recheck the card's orientation in the slot to see if it partially raised out of the slot. If so, then you may have to use a shim between the card's metal hold down tab and the computer's case where the screw is located.

[alex666]

Ski,
Yeah, it is one big card. Good ideas, thanks. I'm pretty sure it seats just fine, but I'll double check. I like the billboard idea, though. I'll check it out tonight when I get home. Thanks again.

Marty
Verona, VA

[BigBlue66]

Hmmm, I would start wondering about the power supply. What kind do you have and let us know the wattage ratings on 3.3, 5 and 12volt rails.

The GF4 Ti boards not only run hot, but they demand a large amount of juice.

Post back your PSU specs and we'll go from there.

[alex666]

BB, I had questioned that myself. Thanks. I'll get back to you all in a few hours after I get home from work, get my son asleep, etc. By the by, I had run a GeForce2 GTS in this machine, which I built in June, for approx. 1 month with no problems. I still have the board. That's what I used temporarily the other night. My board is a Soltek drv5. It's a Sparkle (HEC?) 350W power supply I got thru Newegg. It may be worth pointing out that I had to bump up the voltage on my mobo to my ram (256 samsung ddr 2700) just to get it to its default level. Thanks again all for the feedback.

Marty
Verona, VA

[ski]

One may wonder why jiggling the monitor cable momentarily clears up the display???
My guess is that either the video card or the AGP slot is defective, or the card is creeping out of its slot.

[alex666]

Okay, I'm home. The card is firmly and evenly seated in the agp slot. It is not partially raised out of the slot. I looked very closely. Also, upon close inspection, I noticed that at the very end of the card, two components on the card touch my ata cable from my hdd as it goes into the mobo controller. This has been a complaint about these cards and this mobo. This has not caused any problems for 3+ months. I have not touched that connection since I put this thing together in June. This is a kt333 system, with athlonxp 1700. It is not overclocked, nor is the card. As for voltages, I'm really not sure what to make of these, but here they are:

cpu vcore: 1.73
ddr dimm: 2.50
+3.3: 3.22
+5: 4.94
+12: 12.22
-12: -11.53
-5: -5.25
5VSB: 4.99
Voltage Battery: 3.04

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you all.

Marty
Verona, VA

[ski]

The readings look ok, except possibly for the 3.22V reading on the 3.3V leg.

D/L Hardware Doctor from this site. It will give voltage info for the AGP slot, which should be a steady 1.5V:
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/Detail_Desc.asp?strState=LIVE&ProductID=602&DwnldID=3764
If the AGP voltage is less than that, or it varies widely, then there's a problem with the MB.

Also, does wiggling the monitor's cable still make the display better?
If so, then connect another monitor, if possible, and see if the same thing happens.

[saphalline]

If it's a Sparkle power supply (from Newegg no less), then that probably isn't the culprit, unless it's just plain inadequate, in which case you should move up to a 400-450W one. Still, that would just cause random shutdowns, or am I wrong?

I guess I'm just wondering how a 3-month-old graphics card gets "amazingly dirty"? Are we talking just dust in the heatsink or are we talking grime on the whole thing? Did you notice this when you first installed either of the ones you got? More importantly, is anything else in your system like the sound card or RAM dirty as well?

That right there throws up a red flag for me, 'cause if you can't keep a graphics card (or any internal piece of hardware) clean with just a can of compressed air, a toothpick, and a vaccum, then there's something wrong! Not that it's your fault, Marty, especially if your sound card and other stuff is clean. But a layer of dirt & grime would certianly explain why your monitor cable and/or motherboard can't keep a good connection with the 4400.

There's obviously some more leads to follow on this case, but maybe you should start thinking about how to return that 4400 for a refund instead of a swap. Maybe take store credit instead of cash? It's not there's nothing else in Circuit City you could be spending your money on, right?

[alex666]

Thanks all. I guess I should define "amazingly dirty". Basically, there was dirt and grime on several spots on the card, including the fan on the video card and the area below the fan (since cleaned out). It wasn't like the whole card was grimy, as though it was set up next to a hamburger grill. Also, there was dirt on a few places on the mobo. Otherwise, things looked reasonably clean. But I was "amazed" at the dirt I did see after only 3 months. Now, when I built this computer, I did leave an opening in the back where everything is plugged in (hole is now covered). I tried to be careful about dirt, cleaning the filters, etc., but obviously not enough. For the past few weeks, the main computer has been elevated and in a place that is less likely to accumulate dirt. But I will have to be more vigilant, In any case, the amount of dirt on the video card is intolerable. However, after I cleaned all the dirt off, I still got the weird effect, letters crossing the screen, lines, etc. So, it was not just the dirt. As I type this, everything seems okay. Also, I was used the card several hours last night with no problems.

Ski, that download site is for intel boards. Mine is a soltek amd board, I'm using the athlon xp 1700. Would sandra or wcpuid have that reading? I'll check. Also, should there be a way on my mobo or bios to adjust each of those individual voltage settings? I could boost my agp voltage from default 1.5v to 1.6.

Are there ata/133 80 pin cables with a fairly small connector at the end such that the connector would not rub up against the 2 components on the video card?

Thanks all for the help. I do appreciate it. If it acts up again, and I can rule out some of these other factors, I guess I'll go back to circuit city or send this thing back to pny directly. It does have a lifetime warranty. Like ski said on another post, this card generates beautiful visuals when working correctly, so if I can hold onto it and get it working correctly, I'd just as soon keep it.

Marty
Verona, VA

[alex666]

Immediately after my last post, I closed my machine out of WinXP and rebooted into w98se to check my mail, and in the process the card crapped out. Oh well. I think I may bump the voltage just a tad to see if there is any difference. Otherwise, it's off to PNY or Circuit City, probably the former at this point. I'm not really sure what else to do.

[ski]

You may be able to adjust the voltage settings, depending on your BIOS.

I think that all 80 wire IDE cables have the same size end connectors, but I could be wrong. Check it out.