about network neighborhood

[Bogart101]

hi to all!

anyone here who can give me a brief explanation regarding network neighborhood in win 98. because sometimes even if im connected to my LAN ( that is by using PING to every connected PC on LAN), when im clicking the network neighborhood it shows a message that it cannot browse the said network ( u know what this message is.) and sometimes you can browse the network but some domains are not their but if you will use "find" to find a certain PC on that certain domain you can see and eventually browse the PC.
Thats why when this things happen i dont know how to expalin this things to my boss. it always happen to me on any windows 98 flatform. sometimes in WIn XP, some domains also are diappering but if you PING those PC that are connected on that domain, you will get a reply.

thank you.

[slim]

Hi,

I am not 100% sure what you are getting at with your question but here are a couple of suggestions.

In order for windows 98 to work correctly on a network you reallly need to be a member of the domain or workgroup. I assume as you mention there are a few other pcs on the network you have a Domain/workgroup controller.

If you are pinging the IP address of other pc's on the network the chances are you will get a repsonse whether your pc is on the network or not. But windows 98 needs to be logged onto to that network to be able to browse through the network neighbourhood. As for windows XP/2000 you normally can still see the network negihbour hood but are not able to naviagte around it.

It sounds like the pc is not on the domain/workgroup, so a few things to check on the windows 98 computer is the network properites (is it using the same domain/workgroup as the rest, does it have a fixed IP address, etc).

If you are still having problems, I would need more information regarding your network setup to help further (i.e. do you have a domain controller, what OS it is running, are you using DHCP or manual IP allocation,etc).

Hope this helps

Slim

[Ghost_Hacker]

.But windows 98 needs to be logged onto to that network to be able to browse through the network neighbourhood.


Not really, Net 'hood is simply a display of the "browse list". This list can sometimes take up to 40 mins. to be updated. (which is why you can use the command line to browse a computer that isn't being displayed in the list (net 'hood) or still see a computer displayed that has been turned off.)


Most problems with net 'hood can be traced back to "master browsers" problems on your network.


Here's some info if you really interested :)


Browser ops (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;q102878&)


Browsing a WAN (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q117633&)

Browse service (http://www.winnetmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=4977)


Hope this helps :)

[Ghost_Hacker]

Strange double post :)


Hit wrong key mabey......

[Bogart101]

thanks Slim and GH !!

hey slim, sorry for misleading you or confused you.. i think i have to work with my english grammar for you to fully understand what im really trying to raise here.:) :)

ok to clear things out. im on a server-based network and my server is win advance 2000 flatform and the clients are most winXP and 2 win98 (hardware purposes). for obvious reason i dnt want to write here all my network config for it will just add a lot of space on this forum.

It sounds like the pc is not on the domain/workgroup, so a few things to check on the windows 98 computer is the network properites (is it using the same domain/workgroup as the rest, does it have a fixed IP address, etc).

the PC is very much on a certain workgroup cause i can browse the PC that resides on the same workgroup using the "find" command if my network neighboorhood browser isnt working.

with regards to MR. GH post, it adds to my knowledge that it will take some time for the browser to refresh itself and dispaly all the PC on a Network or on the same workgroup. but sometimes by simly pressing F5 will do the job and it just a matter of seconds.

is there a way to prevent this? i always end up restarting my PC to browse the network neighborhood.

thanks anyway. hope im making myself clear here.:) :) :)

"Giving Thanks is a course in which you must not graduate"

[Ghost_Hacker]

Not really, because the browse service uses broadcast.



Here's some information:

Registration And Propagation Time
Because the browser service relies on server broadcasts, its communication is connectionless and by definition unreliable. When a server starts, it immediately sends a host announcement frame. This process is repeated at 4 minutes and again at 8 minutes. The process is then repeated every 12 minutes thereafter.

Allowing for the loss of a few datagram frames, it is reasonable to expect that the network segment's master browser will add a given computer's name to the browse list within 12 minutes after startup. Beyond this point, connection-oriented traffic is used and the sequences are more deterministic. Within 12 minutes, the segment's master browser will connect to the PDC to obtain the domain-wide list, and at the same time the PDC will connect to the master browser and learn of the new server.

Master browsers on remote segments also connect to the PDC at 12-minute intervals and soon learn of a new server. Within 12 minutes of the remote master browser learning of a new computer's name, all the backup browsers connect to their master browser. At this point, all browsers on a remote segment know about the new server. In a multi-segment WAN environment, the maximum amount of time it should take for all clients within the domain to see the new computer is 48 minutes (12 + 12 + 12 + 12). On a network on which broadcasts and network usage are well within safe parameters, this period should average approximately one-half as long (24 minutes).

Removing computers from the browse list may take more time. To allow for lost datagram frames, the master browser does not remove a server from its list until 3 announcement periods have passed. If the server is not shut down gracefully or if network connectivity is lost, the server can remain in the master browser's list for up to 36 minutes. After this time, the PDC is notified to remove the server name. The same communication flow follows to remove a server's name. Within 12 minutes, a master browser on a remote segment obtains the domain-wide list from the PDC, and within 12 minutes each backup browser connects to the master browser. This process can take as long as 72 minutes to finish (36 + 12 + 12 + 12). If the server is shut down gracefully, the browser sends a single Host Announcement frame indicating that it is no longer acting as a server. Upon receipt of this datagram, the master browser immediately removes the server from its local list. On a network on which broadcasts and network usage are well within safe parameters, this period should average approximately one-half as long (36 minutes).

Because a server's browser role is defined dynamically with periodic elections, determining the flow of communication used to provide the browse list to a specific client computer can be difficult. If a master browser is shut down gracefully, the master browser forces an election for a new master browser during shutdown. If the backup browser that wins the election has been present on the network long enough to receive a complete browse list, it starts as a master browser with a fully populated browse list, and browse functionality continues on the network segment without interruption.

If a server that was acting as the master browser is not shut down gracefully or if the master browser's force election request datagram is lost, there may be a delay before browse functionality is available on the network segment. An election of a new master browser is caused if a client computer requests a browse list and is unable to locate a master browser. It may take up to 12 minutes for a backup browser to discover that no master browser is present, depending on network usage.





I never use net 'hood to find network resources or map drives, instead I use the "run" window and type the computer's UNC. For example, typing \\computername in "run" will open a window displaying all shares for that computer. ( All shares that aren't hidden that is. Also if you know the share's name you can add that to the UNC to open a window right to it ) You can then map drives if you wish. I find using "run" faster than drilling down thur net 'hood to locate a share.



Hope this helps :)