The dreaded system lockup

[Rayista Geoff]

Howdy, all! Been *ages* since I last dropped by, but thought the assembled company might have a thought about this:

My wife's got this like 5 or 6 year old AMD K5 based computer, and, naturally, just after I built a second one to play games on, hers started locking up. I suspected heat, since it was the classic locks-up-after-about-an-hour-of-use thing. However, I didn't have time to check it out right then. When I went back to check up on it again after a few weeks it started locking up after only a few minutes. Nothing had been added or changed, and I'd replaced the power supply about 3 months earlier, so I assume it's not anything to do with voltage/power.

Something else of note: maybe it was just coincidence, but it seemed like a syntax error in the DOS command line would trigger a lockup (like I if I screwed up the path name while I was trying to get her "mission critical" files off the HDD). I'm not 100% sure about this though.

I still haven't had the 2 seconds to pull the case off and test for overheating, but, just out of curiosity, does the syntax error triggering a lockup sound familiar? Is that a well-known sign that, say, the processor is overheating/failing? Fortunately, the tech guy in my wife's department claims to have a bazillion old parts, including processors, so I've been waiting to get some spare parts before trying in earnest.

Anyway, any thoughts much appreciated!

Geoff

[BigBlue66]

Hi Ray,

In my many years of dealing with DOS, I have never seen a syntax error lock up a machine. DOS will usually just report an error, like 'syntax error' or 'bad command or filename.' Methinks this is just a coincidence.

Not quite sure about the lockups, but the very first thing I would do is check the CPU fan for proper operation. In this case, it sounds it could have gradually starting failing. This is of course just a hunch, but well worth following up on. Another equally important idea to try is to make sure the PS is putting out the correct amount of voltage. You can get a thingy at Radio Shack to test that with. Somebody here should be able to help with that, or read some of the last couple of week's worth of posts. I am sure it's mentioned somewhere.

If the CPU fan is working correctly, and the PS fan and/or proper voltage is working correctly, then post back with some more details about the system. Somebody should be able to help.

Good luck. You should probably treat the possible overheating of the CPU as a critical item, and you should not run the 'puter for any length of time until you are sure the fan is working correctly.

Cheers,

Big Blue 66


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The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability that you'll get it wrong.

[mjc]

If it has been awhile since you've been inside the case I'd go in armed and ready for killer dust bunnies.....

But seriously extra heavy dirt/dust accumulation can be just as serious a heat problem as a failed fan.

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

[Paleo Pete]

Yep, a syntax error will only get you an error message, the computer should keep chugging along. Unless it's trying to load video drivers or some such and that's where the error is. I doubt it's the problem, I'd go with heat or your spiffy new power supply has a case of the creeping crud.

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So many idiots, and only six bullets...
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[Rayista Geoff]

Thanks to all for the suggestions! I finally had a second this afternoon to pull the case off and check inside, and things have gotten curiouser and curiouser. I was sure I'd eliminated a virus as the problem, but now I'm not so sure.

Having pulled the case off, the CPU fan and the power supply fan appear to be working perfectly. I was armed to the teeth ready for tons of dust but there was very little to be found, and, at this point, I haven't cleaned anything at all. Taking the case off seemed to do something, though, as I haven't had a lockup since the case has been off. (The computer's been on and off, but it was on for about 2 hours at one point without a problem.) I know that taking the case off won't always increase heat dissipation since the fans are designed to circulate air with the case on, but I really thought I'd got heat as my culprit.

Anyway, since the computer didn't seem to be locking up, I thought I'd go back and try to fix Windows 95. Just before the lockups started, Windows 95 had been acting up and wouldn't start, which is what made me think virus. But now I figured it was unrelated. Going back to it, Windows was consistently hanging after the *second* time the logo screen appeared. It wouldn't boot into Safe Mode, though, so I started thinking virus again.

The really weird thing happened when I tried to reinstall Windows 95. I'd tried to reinstall it a couple of times but it would always hang or reboot just as the install wizard started after agreeing to the license agreement. (The only time I ever got an actual error message was when once when it said: "SUWIN caused a general protection fault in module USER.EXE.)

But because the virus possibility had now crept back into my consciousness, I decided to create a new Win95 emergency disk with my other computer and write-protect it. (Same installation of Win95) I started up with that and started the Win95 installation. Scandisk ran OK and found no problems, but then I got a strange message with a box-like outline saying something like: "ATTENTION: There is a serious disk error reading Drive A. Retry (r)?" This is weird because it's a *Spanish* version of Win95 that I have. I don't remember ever seeing any English. Is this a virus trying to con me? Or is there some reason why the installation needs to write to the startup disk at this point?

As I say, I thought I'd eliminated a virus as the cause of my problems, but now I'm not so sure. But then why did removing the case seem to solve the problem?

Anyway, any thoughts again most appreciated!

Geoff

[mjc]

hmmm.....that is strange....both installs are Spanish? I'd grab antivirus that fits on a floppy, likeFprot (http://www.f-prot.com/)but grab it from here (http://www/bootdisk.com)(already floppy sized) and run it...



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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

All Control Agents must memorize Rule 5 before proceding to Rule 6

[BigBlue66]

Hey Ray,

Running a virus scanner is a good idea. However, this sounds like you just had a bad floppy disk. I assume that the A: drive is the floppy drive? Try making another boot-up disk, making sure to format the floppy beforehand. The system is reporting a 'read' error, not a 'write' error. So, I think it's just a bad floppy.

As for the magic of removing the case; just because the CPU fan looks like it's working OK, doesn't mean it is. It may turn and all that, but not be turning at optimal cooling speed. You might consider getting a new ball bearing fan. They are fairly cheap.

Or, the PS fan is not turning at its optimal speed. Power supplys are more costly, so I would try the new CPU fan first.

It may have just been another coincidence in this case. If the computer was left on for several hours, even the cooling effect of the outside air on the CPU may not be enough to keep the CPU cool enough.

In other words, I still think it's a heat problem.

Good luck.

Big Blue 66


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The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability that you'll get it wrong.

[Rayista Geoff]

mjc, thanks for the pointer to bootdisk.com. That's exactly what I was looking for. No viruses found by f-prot, tho', so I guess we really are back to heat. (That English message is still kinda bugging me, as, yes, both of my Win95 installs are in Spanish. I may try again and see what happens.)

Anyway, I think for the next step I'll take BigBlue's advice and get a new CPU fan and we'll see where we are.

As ever, thanks to all!

Geoff

[tjaymadison]

I don't know for sure -- haven't seen every M$ error message yet, http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif but the wording in that
puppy seems mighty suspicious to me. I've seen 'Fatal' too many times, but never 'serious'.
Also, M$ techies don't write messages that start with "There is ...", or that are redundant like
"disk error reading Drive", and 99.9% of the time they put a colon after the drive letter.
(Why, of all things, is FDISK the exception?) The "Retry (r)?" isn't their style either. They offer letter
options for multiple-choice questions, but the default option is [Enter], or [Y]. I smell a rat! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif

Now if the message were Error reading drive A: - (A)bort (R)etry? then you'd have something
that would look like the real McCoy. And it wouldn't take much of a programmer to make either
response have the same effect, regardless of which one you chose.

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"I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage, mathematician, computer pioneer, analytical engine designer (1791-1871)



[This message has been edited by tjaymadison (edited 05-06-2001).]

[Rayista Geoff]

Yeah, I have to say the error message didn't "feel" right at all, but I wasn't sure how paranoid I was being. And I recall quite clearly that "Retry (r)" was the only option given, which also seemed odd.

I did try several times later to reinstall Windows 95 with no success (kept hanging after running Scandisk, or right away if I used the /IS switch) and never saw that message again, so I'm not quite sure what's up. I may just try to backup the critical stuff of my wife's onto floppy and then slash and burn, as the Win95 installation seems beyond repair. As long as I can keep the floppies quarrantined until I can check them with a couple of virus detectors, it oughta be OK.

Geoff

[tjaymadison]

How does it go -- Things I found while looking for something else? Well, shut my mouth! 'Serious' indeed.

Ray, here (http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q150/5/32.asp) is the M$ message you got. All may not be lost yet.

Glad I didn't have any money on this. Maybe they were interning high-school students that year? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage, mathematician, computer pioneer, analytical engine designer (1791-1871)

[This message has been edited by tjaymadison (edited 05-08-2001).]

[Rayista Geoff]

Well whaddya know! Cheers, tjay!

Geoff