Nightmare!!!

[andreadebiase]

hi all, i am having a nightmare with my pc. I have winXP pro.
Last week I was testing a hard drive as a slave on my pc to see if it was working. It turned out to be bad so I removed it and booted with my usual hard drive (yes, jumpers are ok !) and it couldn`t boot. I though (how the heck the second hard drive screwed mine!!!) anyhow since I couldn`t figure out what was I made a brand new installation of the OS. Now everything works but I am having one main problem: the pc reboots alone when I install files and/or games from the 2 cd rom drives (either drives). I tried reinstalling everything and did not work. I tried reinstalling again and again everything in all combinations: 1 cd drive only (both of them tried); 1 SDRAM mem module (both tried) and NOTHING. This thing is rebooting alone during heavy use of the cd-roms (not while installing the OS though). I am on my 10th attempt and I am tired!!!!!!!!!!!
And Yes I always used the most recent drivers including the VIA4in1. I also tried to revert to Win 98 and things got better but once rebooted so i said "screw it I am going back to XP".
I am getting tired of this thing and i am very upset since i built this system more than 1 year ago and has been going flawlessly until I tried that damn hard drive last week. I am tempted to put everything in the garbage can and go buy one in Best Buy (what a defeat!!!!!). Am I thinking of a very bad coincidence of getting suddenly both sdram modules bad at the same time? could it be? I also tried different ribbon cables....nothing! All i have left is the mobo battery.....don`t tell me I wasted all this time for a 50 cents battery?? or please..........YES tell me is the freaking battery!!!!!
thanks

ps

Power Supply is a good one and 400W
I also get sometimes a message like this (I have over 500Mb of sdram):
The installation failed because of low memory (low disk space for swapping file) or corrupted Cabinet file

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Hmmm, you sound more knowledgeable than I, but what about the possibility of it being a lack of adequate power (outlet or power supply or both) to support the new hard drive, thus causing your motherboard to try oven-roasting your components (thus bad SDRAM now)?

Could be the battery, too. Instead of asking, why not buy the 50-cent battery? ;)

It won't be a waste of money regardless (always good to have a new one...)!

Hope this helps,

-ShAdOWmoNkX

[andreadebiase]

It`s not the hard drive because is the same i had before all this sh.. started and the Western Digital diagnostic disk says it`s ok. The battery....mhh..I thought of it but i always knew that if it fails is going to affect the booting process in the bios area and not when the OS is up and running. Am i right?
I was thinking of a "short" of the mobo but why then it happens only when installing stuff from cd drives?
honestly i think it more as a hardware issue than software but where??????/ i can`t understand. I feel like i had a simultaneous failure of cd-roms and sdram (hell that would do it!!). Power supply? should give me problems at random and not with cdroms only

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

CD-ROM drive problems can be indicative of a LOT of things -- not least of all motherboard issues; after all, the IDE cables on the CD-ROM drives are connected to the motherboard, right? :)

So... the mobo might be faulty from overstressing the amount of power it can handle -- the new drive might have done that. Could be Windows corruption from the new drive -- not unheard of with Windows. Could be CD-ROMs are bad (not as likely if both are simultaneously bad). Could be the RAM (since you said it's bad at this point). Could be a resource conflict.

Really, it's a process of elimination.

In your case, check the power supply first -- is it within the right ranges? Usually they are: +12.x V, +5.x V, 3.5x V (sometimes another +5 V), and then the CPU (it varies depending on make and model).

From what I know, the numbers will RARELY ever be dead-on -- usually there's a bit of fluctuation. But whether it's "too much" or not is really based on the specifications of the motherboard and power supply both.

Check your mains power (the power outlet the computer and components plug into) ... short (pun) of sticking your finger in the socket, test it with a savvy surge protecter to see if there's a wiring fault, and/or a digital multimeter or ammeter. This stuff gets complicated -- it's over MY head, okay? :D

For RAM, you said it was bad. Keeping bad RAM in will only excaberate your problems. Don't use it. Get new RAM -- but not before knowing what caused it to go bad! Was it just bad, or something bigger that faulted it? Putting new RAM back in might -just- ruin that, too!

Motherboard: I dunno; having similar problems myself. I hear SiSoft Sandra is "good" for this, but I took a look a while back and it seems to be only good for benchmarking. Unless you know what the numbers mean, it's completely useless. Besides, most of the "good" stuff is only found in the pay-for version, so aah, it's not worth it. If you know of any good tools for testing this kinda hardware, pass the info on!

CD-ROMs: Not sure there, either. There must be some ways to test it...

Windows: I'm sure you know how to find out if there's a problem here -- you won't! Windows IS a problem! lol Seriously though, reinstall if not sure.

Flash the BIOS again if you think it'd help. Of course, be sure to note your settings before doing so...

Replace the battery just as a little experiment. It may help.

Hmmm... brain fart... not sure what I'm missing here.

Does this help?

-ShAdOWmoNkX

[Budfred]

I wonder if it really is a hardware problem. Have you checked the bios to make sure it is set to autodetect? How did you check the bad harddrive? If you checked from DOS, you are pretty safe. If you checked from Windoze, you could have a BIOS virus and that is a tough one to fix. I assume you have checked your connections to make sure they are all set up properly?

If these things are not the problem, then I would try taking out the CD drivers from Safe Mode and reboot to reinstall them in Safe Mode. Check all your automatic settings for your CD to see if any of them might be changed to screw things up.

There is a RAM tester that has been mentioned several times recently called DOCMem (if I remember correctly). I may be able to find the link if you want it. You could also do a search for it. It is free and tests the RAM thoroughly so that you can determine if that is the problem.

I think this is a software problem and I would urge you to check thoroughly before investing in any new hardware.

Budfred

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Budfred,

BIOS virus? How would one know if he/she had one, and how would it be eliminated? I myself have problems and some might be attributed to that... so it's interesting you mentioned that...

BTW, DocMem was one I know of too, but I use Memtest86, which is also free FYI. :)

BTW, I do NOT think this person has a software issue. Note that he said he reinstalled everything AND all the drivers -- so that would preclude it from being a software issue. It's DEFINITELY hardware, but in what capacity -- I dunno. "Hardware" generally includes the BIOS, although it's technically considered "firmware." Semantics, bah!

Cheers,

-ShAdOWmoNkX

[Budfred]

It still could be a software problem. Reinstalling Windoze without first completely reformatting the hard drive (with zeros) can leave crap on the HD. Also, apparently Klez has the ability to hide in RAM and infect the BIOS, so even a complete format may not be enough. It depends a lot on what the problem was with the bad HD and how it was found to be no good. It may require a low level reformat with the PC powered down for a while to clear RAM to get it working properly again. As for the BIOS infection, I am not sure how or if it is possible to recover from that one. mjc was suggesting that a new BIOS may be the only way to fix that one. I would check with mjc if you need to know more, he is more expert in that area by far.

Budfred

[andreadebiase]

Yes, i reinstalled everything several times so forget the virus in the hard drive. Bios virus? geeezz how do i remove it? and mostly would i be able to detect it?
I tried the other "faulty" hard drive simply by daisychaining it as a slave to my own. It did not work so i removed it. I think i`ll try with a new module of sdram from a friend.
thanks guys and keep thinking

[Budfred]

When you say you reinstalled, what does that mean?? Did you actually wipe the drive and reinstall or just a basic format or just install over the old software?? Also, did you shut your system down and let it sit for a while before a cold boot to clear RAM, BEFORE you reinstall anything on the cleaned HD? If you didn't take these precautions, your HD could be infected.

When you say you tested by daisychaining the HD, did you test it in DOS or in Windows? If you did it in DOS, there is far less chance that you got infected. If you did it in Windows, all bets are off.

If you want to save some hassle, try one of the RAM memory testers from DOS and you will confirm whether your RAM is the problem.

As for the BIOS virus, you need to check with mjc or other experts to learn anymore than what I already said. I learned as much as I said from mjc.

Budfred

[andreadebiase]

1)i forgot to mention that I tried the memory doc program and it did not detect anything wrong. According to that program my sdram it`s ok!
2) i reinstalled all this time the OS by formatting always the entire hard drive. As far as the cold boot. No I wouldn`t say that I waited some time to re-install. I proceeded immediately. But is true this thing? you gotta make the "virus" to get a cold!!! i`m getting entertained
3) I always installed WinXPpro
4) I did put the bad hard drive as a slave and booted the pc. I did not do this in DOS nor using a diagnostic diskette. Simply plug it in and see if I could look in to it from Windows. Pc did not boot. removed bad hard drive and booted again.....and the rest is history

[Budfred]

According to what I was told, the Klez can hide in RAM and will install itself when you reboot to reinstall the OS. If you never managed to boot with the bad HD, it is less likely that you are infected, but....

If your RAM passed DOCMem, I doubt that is the problem. Since the problem started after messing around with the HD, I would still wonder if there are any loose connections, short circuits, reversed connections and so on. You might want to do the routine of disconnecting almost everything and gradually add things back until the problem starts again. This would be most important to do with the CD since you indicate that is mostly when the mystery reboots occur.

Budfred

[andreadebiase]

i`ll try removing almost everythig. I also tried changing the cd-rom ribbon cables but not the hard drive`s one so i`ll do that. Concerning the Bios i realized that I have the Bios Guardian enabled that doesn`t allow (they say!) any virus/change into the bios.....
I think I am overwhelmed for today. i am going to sleep and deal with the beast tomorrow. thank you and looking forward to know more.

[mjc]

Most BIOS based AV will also prevent you from installing an OS...it protects the MBR and in order to install you need to be able to write to the MBR.

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Hi MJC,

Your .sig sez not to post questions to yer e-mail, so I hope you get this... :-/

This thread brings up the topic of BIOS-infecting/resident viruses; partly considering my recent spate of problems (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=97893#post97905) but mostly out of curiousity, I asked a question in it about that -- I'm curious, how does one know when one has such an infection? And how is it obliberated?

I'd assume flashing the BIOS would work, but is there some reason why that wouldn't be effective in some or all cases?

Thanks!

-ShAdOWmoNkX

[andreadebiase]

yes, i also would love to know if i have a virus in my bios. Regarding the Bios Guardian and it`s effects on installing the OS I could agree but in my previous experiences I never had to disable it to install an OS, why would be the case now? would norton detect a bios virus? and please where can i find good instructions for flashing it? this is something i never did.
thank you

[andreadebiase]

so that you guys know. The precise moment on which the pc stopped booting at that time with the bad slave hard drive installed happend after the following sequence of events:
aprox 8pm, beer on left and no girlfriend on the sorroundings. Pushed the power botton.....Bios page came on (it`s a FIC AZ11E mobo).... I entered the bios to see if the new slave hard drive was detected, it was,good!....rebooted....again Bios page....black screen with white bar on the bottom showing windows loading started to move from left to right....almost halfway the bar stopped...error message came out saying coudn`t find something in the file system.......and the rest you all know.

[andreadebiase]

I tried a new SDARM module I borrowed from work. Same problem. Thus my sdram can be eliminated from the list of possible problems.

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Hi andreadebaise,

Just wondering, did you manage to fix your problem? If not, what have you done so far?

As for flashing, it's pretty simple to do, but at the same time VERY risky unless you know what you're doing.

Soo... that said...

1.> Write down all your current BIOS settings on a piece of paper. All of them. I mean it. Make sure you can change them back based on the paper if you need to.

2.> Load the "default" BIOS options.

3.> If your BIOS has a setting to prevent BIOS updates, make sure it's set so that you CAN update the BIOS. Not necessary, but might be a good idea to disable that "virus protection" in the BIOS during a flash. Doubt it, but you never know how some BIOS's react to that sort of thing...

4.> Set the BIOS to boot first from a floppy.

5.> Install a bootable floppy disk; it has to have the BIOS flashing program and the BIOS "update" file (called a "ROM" file) on it.

6.> Reboot. Computer will boot from floppy.

7.> Type the path to the flashing proggie on your bootable floppy disk.

e.g., A:\FWFLASH.exe

8.> Flashing program will load. It will usually start by asking if you want to back up your current BIOS ROM -- respond with "Yes" and save it to the same bootable floppy (you can always transfer it later, but be DAMN sure it doesn't get corrupted. Keep a CRC or MD5 of the file noted somewhere, okay? It has a Contingency check during flash, but not always foolproof.

9.> It will then (or before # 8) ask whether you want to update your BIOS. Of course you do. So, "Yes". Type the path to the ROM file if it asks you; e.g., "A:\update.rom".

10.> It might confirm whether you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to do this (Windows does this with stuff sometimes too, but with a BIOS flash, there's some sense in them nagging you with "are you really sure?" prompts.) Yes, you do want to do this.

Note: DO NOT TOUCH your computer, reboot, or otherwise mess with anything until it's done. If you do, or the update isn't successful, there's a big chance your BIOS is a piece of scrap metal (well, and silicon...).

For the love of Betsy, print of your motherboard manufacturer's instructions on how to recover from a bad BIOS flash, okay? Generally, you don't want to reboot. You want to just flash again until you know it's successful. But this varies based on manufacturer, so again, do check with them.

When it's done, it will usually tell you to reboot your computer by pressing a certain key, key sequence, reboot button or whatnot. Just hit CTRL ALT DELETE unless you're given a specific button to push.

If it boots up, BIOS flash was successful!

You may get an error message saying that the BIOS settings are "bad". This is normal. Just go into the BIOS immediately, load the default settings, and then change them to what they were before (this is where that piece of paper alluded to above comes in handy).

If you don't get any such BIOS error and/or the BIOS fails to load, it's time to power down your computer and find that CMOS/BIOS Reset jumper on your motherboard and short it out! The method varies based on the motherboard you have, but it's usually pretty easy to do. Do an internet search on how this should be done BEFORE flashing and print/remember the instructions if you have any doubts as to whether this will need to be done.

--BTW, in case you weren't aware, you get the BIOS flashing program and latest ROM update from your motherboard's manufacturer. If it's a pre-built machine, get it from the company who built it. Because if it's not a "vanilla" board and modified in ANY way, the BIOS update won't be the right one for the board as some or many of the components will be different in "OEM" boards. Also, be sure to check the board numbers to ensure that if it's a different "subtype" or "subset" of a general series of boards, you have the update for the right one.

For example, if your board is "1234A," get the ROM for that board, not 1234B or C. If you only have an option for 1234x series boards, go with that.

You said it's an FIC AZ11E motherboard, so you should probably get it from FIC's US website.

Cheers,

-ShAdOWmoNkX :)

[andreadebiase]

hi guys, first of all thank you for your simpathy and help.
The pc is working fine. I burned some cds and loaded my games without a problem. What was it? i don`t know, but what i did was to 1) remove all the parts from the box 2)remove the 2 inches of dust from inside the case 3) remove the dead "fruitfly" that was laying in the sorroundings of the 2nd eide channel 4) put all together plus a corrugated cardboard between the mobo and the case to prevent any short....e voila`...it`s fine now.

thanks you all again

Andrew

[Paul Komski]

Virus must have been concealed in the dust! :D ;)

[ranchdog]

Dust...

Dead Fruitfly...

Where's the G/F when you need her.

Beer on the left. Dust Devil on the right.

:D


RD.

[andreadebiase]

I got it again and there is no fruitfly in it!!! mhhh i am wondering if it has anything to do with all the fix patches downloaded from updating windows..........

[integral]

case 3) remove the dead "fruitfly" that was laying in the sorroundings of the 2nd eide channel

Ahh.... Looks like you found the bug!

[andreadebiase]

ok! stripped down the entire thing. Made varius tests. Seems like my soundblaster is going bad. Soundblaster inside...pc reboots alone, soundblaster out.....no reboots!! seems like the cause!

[Budfred]

And here you had accused that poor innocent fruit fly of the carnage!!!:D :D

Budfred

[andreadebiase]

ofcourse!!! the fruitfly fried my SoundBlaster:D

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Wow ... glad you figured your problem out! But A L L T H A T work for a fruitfly frying your soundblaster?! Grrrr... I'm starting to see why people charge $40/hour to fix computer problems -- basically, sometimes it comes down to having to remove everything to solve the problem!

Cheers,

-ShAdOWmoNkX

[shanmuga]

Enthralling! :D