New computer $3000 to spend

[Daywraith]

Hi
I?m looking to buy a new computer. My parents are paying up to $3000 NZ (not sure what this is in US probably about $1500) any way I will be going of to university next year to study info-tech. I am a dedicated gamer but probably wont have access to the web next year. I will defiantly need scanner and printer. The specifications of the computer I am look to buy are below. Does this deal sound good and what is the better processor? Also is a Xabre graphics card any good? Will this computer be able to run Doom 3 and other soon to be released games? Thanks in advance for any help given.

SPECIFICATIONS
:Choose Intel Pentium 4 2.4GHz or AMD Athlon XP 2400+ processors
: 512MB DDR333 Ram
: 80GB 7200rpm ATA 100 HDD
: 40x12x48 CDRW
: 16x DVD Drive
: 128MB Xabre 400 AGPx8 Graphics Card NEW!!
: 1.44MB Floppy Drive
: Altec Lansing ASV300 Sub & Speaker System
: 56k Internal Fax Modem
: PC Company Keyboard
: PC Company IntelliMouse by Microsoft
: 1 yr PC P&L return to base warranty
: Microsoft Windows XP Home OEM
: Microsoft Works 7 NEW!!
: Microsoft Internet Explorer V6.0
: Adobe Acrobat Reader
: AVG Anti Virus OEM version
: PLUS 6 Months FREE Internet option*

[ranchdog]

Welcome

Rather not advise another how to spend
their hard earned $$.

But I would have to ask which Motherboard
(mfg and model) would be supplied.

As well as brand name on the other hardware
as well.

Generic components such as DDR will only
cause grief later.

But that's how profits are made.

However, good luck whatever your selection.

RD.

[Daywraith]

Thanks for reply

I was getting the deal from PC Company I?m afraid that?s all the info they gave me.

Also what did you mean by quote

?Generic components such as DDR will only
cause grief later.?

Also how much difference gaming wise is there between DDR 266 and DDR 333

I will talk to a cousin tonight who may be able to get it wholesale.

Is there any motherboard you recommend.

[Budfred]

If this is a prefab system and they don't tell you what the brands of components are, you are not getting a good deal. For $1500 in the US, you could buy a really hot system including a LCD monitor for that money. You can probably build an even better system for that money. I would ask for detailed info on the system if I were you.

As for buying any obscure brand of equipment, RAM or other piece, sometimes you get a great deal, other times you get something that is just going to cause you grief. With the price you are paying, you should be getting top line equipment. Grief is hardware conflicts, premature failure of components and mysterious shutdowns. It can also just run slower.

Budfred

[Daywraith]

Ok I went to store and asked for more info

the Motherboard is a Chaintech Summit KT333
Chaintech GeForce4 TI4200 128mb w/ TV-Out and DVI
17" Philips 107T FlatScreen CRT

also whats the differance between 256mb PC2100 Ram and 256mb DDR 333 Ram.

[Budfred]

They still need to tell you which Chaintech board. Apparently the Summit series is not a top performer, but I would urge you to do a Google search for reviews of the equipment before you buy.

www.google.com

I am not sure, but I think those RAM options are the same. There are several different ways to refer to DDR RAM and the different numbers usually mean different speed. Someone else will know more about it.

The video sounds reasonable, but I don't know about that particular card.

Budfred

[deddard]

You're usually better off getting one made for you, with the options you want.
I wouldn't go for the top of the range in processors, because of the price loading.
A mid-high range is best, but as one of the other posts points out, get a good motherboard, which allows for a processor upgrade later on.
Memory is fairly cheap, so 512MB or 1 GB is the minimum really.
Scanners are reasonably cheap, it depends what you want it for though - are you going to be scanning text in for OCR conversion, or do you need pictures as well?
As far as printers go, are you going to be mainly printing text for your coursework? if so, it would be worth getting a small laser printer - far cheaper and faster to run than an inkjet. If you do need colour work, then inkjets are pretty cheap - but look at the price of ink cartridges for any given model first.
Are you going to be transporting the package much? will you be staying at the university town/city throughout the holidays? If you require that the machine be packed up and taken home in the holidays, size is a considreation.
Although you are a gamer, you may want to look at LCD screens (if so, make sure it accepts digital input, and get a card with digital output.)
Adobe Acrobat reader is free to anyone who wants it. As a student, you are entitled to a discount on the full package - I'm doing this myself. It is going to cost about £50 (UK) and if you want to have files that are transferable to any machine, this may be worth considering.
What about security? are others liable to have access to your machine (whether you grant it or not)? if so, make sure you have security precautions - passwords etc.
Norton systemworks (PRO) is worthwhile to keep the system in order.
This post obviously asks more questions than it answers, but these are the sort of things you need to look at. I'll try to give a few answers in my next post.

[Budfred]

By the way: AVG is also available for free online. It sounds like they are trying to promote including stuff that doesn't really cost them anything. Their vagueness about details would worry me too.

Budfred

[Daywraith]

Ok the scanner will probably be used for high quality images but as I am staying in hostel, which provides free access to quality scanners and printers, so I probably don?t need one. I will need a printer because when I leave hostel (only there for a year) I wont have access to one. I will go for an inkjet because I can clam back printing cost for WINDS.
I will be transporting It a lot to LANs etc but as long as computer is not to big I should be fine.
As for software I will be running multiple operating systems probably Windows XP 98 and a version of Linux. I am confident that I can get any software I need from friends and as I reformat my computer regular and always keep backups I don?t worry to much about hackers or viruses etc.
As to upgrading my computer I probably wont be able to afford it for 4 or more years and then will probably just get a new one.

A question about LCD screens I have heard these give very poor quality for playing high-resolution games but don?t know. Also they seem a lot more expensive than normal screens. What is so good about them?

[Budfred]

LCD monitors tend to ghost when playing high resolution fast moving games which is why they are often avoided by gamers. This is apparently improving as refresh rates improve.

On the other hand, you get more screen real estate for a much smaller footprint and the screen resolution for non-gaming purposes is really good.

If you are on a tight budget and into games, you are probably better off with a CRT. Eventually all monitors will probably be some type of flat panel, so you will get there eventually.

Budfred:)

[Mark Miller]

Everyone is going to yell at me but one advantage of a "name" system is that it usually has lots of additional software ie cd burning dvd playing so on and so for. If you can't or don't know what yopu will need this might help.
Mark:cool:

[Mark Miller]

Everyone is going to yell at me but one advantage of a "name" system is that it usually has lots of additional software ie cd burning dvd playing so on and so for. If you can't or don't know what yopu will need this might help.
Mark:cool:
By the way the new lcds are alot better I just got a samsung and while in games not as good as crt in everything else including photos it's better

[Budfred]

Mark,

I am not going to yell, but he listed the software that he is supposed to get and about half of it is free stuff. The only thing the company is providing that it will have to pay for is WinXP and MS Works. About $120 or so OEM.

Budfred

[Mark Miller]

Hi bud,
Thanks for not yelling. I bet it comes with cd burning software and dvd playing software and stuff they don't even tell you about. The reason I say this is look on any of the sites, Dell, HP, Gateway they all include software that never shows up in the ads. Now I am not saying you need all of it, but after putting a kid and his wife thru college every penny helps. Anyway I just thought it should be considered and I hope the kid gets a good deal.
Happy Holidays Mark:D

[Budfred]

If you buy the components, you generally get that stuff with them too. My concern for Daywraith is that he seems to be paying a lot for what is apparently a no-name system that has vague specs and very little extras. I am not aware of what is available for what prices in New Zealand, but in the US he could do much better.

Budfred

[JUAN DOS]

Here I believe, is the system in question.

http://www.thepccompany.co.nz/page.asp?ObjectID=16&MSCSProfile=95385A1F52DEA1A229D5B37542054464ABAB10 3336612116E49F624D5F6130245EBD5C6918BDE86EA9E858A2 D5D4053525381BA83741809133EB109C214E17F99EFDFB6094 241E9FA5908B94A5D01135F50E4FB2036F73FB370FC46A05B9 A2A402FEFE22884A920DD68F7833C11548FE5EAF59953120C9 7FA9A07EB1368D56F0F86C93E8D5A0C8E1


.
The PC Company is reputed to be the largest PC marketer in the region. That may be a plus.
I am not a gamer, so those specs should be left to the knowledgable.

The software package, not withstanding previous posts, is abysmal, and the worst package I've ever seen. They list Acrobat reader, and AVG. The hardware is likely to be a real bargain too. I bet they get paid to include the 6 mo free ISP.
The operating system, if typical of name brand PCs, is only valid in that one machine, and changing motherboards will require a new OS.

I would check re complaints at a PC Company users site. They may have good or bad reputation, but judging from the price, it had better be top notch.
Get the toll free tech support phone number, and test it re REAL availability.


Many universities in the USA offer absolute bargain prices on good software. ie Office XP @ $10, WinXPpro @$10 etc. You should investigate this possibility in NZ.
Internet access is included in tuition, even if living off campus.

Transporting a PC to & fro is a pain. Seriously consider a laptop. Class schedules have lots of gaps were a laptop would benefit getting work done between classes.
On campus computer labs (open 24-7) have good quality PCs,scanners,and printers. They are free to use.

Choosing from available prebuilt machines limits your choices to the ones that are marketable profitably.
Take time to list your priorities re the use of the PC.

A cutting edge gamers PC is only cutting edge for a few days. If you are going to university, a rock solid stable PC should take top billing re priorities. A cutting edge gamers PC and a rock solid stable homework PC are seldom contained in the same case. Gamers will tell you that it certainly can be done, but how often are their own systems torn apart? They have screwless cases for a reason.

In the dorms here, there are lots of gaming machines in the rooms of the first year students. Few are found in the rooms of those ready to graduate. I ask you why?

My 2 cents is to choose from:
1) Design and build your own.
2) Have a small local shop build one to your specs, with retail operating system.
3) buy a laptop.

[Daywraith]

Ok I just talking to my cousin daniel how can get me a computer wholesale.

Note I'm Looking for a computer that will be capable of running games for the next few years the computer I have now is 3 years old and I can play most games at minimum settings, Quake 3 ect. However the newer games (Solider of Fortune, Warcraft 3 etc) seem to lag and crash etc. All I really wont is a computer that will be able to handle games for next few years hopefully until I leave Uni.

Because most of my course is computer based all my labs and most of my lectures will be in computer rooms so I won?t need a Laptop. Note my hall of residence is in the very center of Uni.

I heard that the 128 MB GeForce 4 Ti 4200 would last a fairly long time while a lesser graphics card may not last as well.

I have some friends how are dedicated gamers who think I should get a GeForce 4 Ti 4600 instead of the GeForce 4 Ti 4200 I don?t think I is really worth it but I?m not sure.

[saphalline]

My recommendations:

1) Go with an AthlonXP - they have the best gaming performance per dollar. Somewhere in the 1800+ to 2100+ range. Also, if possible, ask specifically for one based on the "Thoroughbred B core" because they run cooler, among other things.

2) Get a KT400-based board - they can handle the latest AthlonXP's (on the 333MHz bus) and will take up to DDR400 (aka PC3200) RAM no prob. I suggest DDR333 (aka PC2700) RAM for its cheaper price and nearly same performance, however. MSI's KT4 Ultra is a good motherboard...

3) Get at least 512MB of RAM - a modern gaming PC should have no less! My games, such as Max Payne and Medal of Honor, shot up in performance by upgrading my RAM from 256MB to 768MB! :D

4) The GF4 Ti 4200 is certainly all that will be needed for quite some time. Note that the SiS Xabre graphics cards are meant to be cheaper and won't play next year's games will all the cool effects turned on. Just make sure you get the 128MB version of the Ti 4200 (which is slightly slower but has more video RAM than the 64MB versions). Gainward/Cardexpert makes "Golden Sample" cards that are overclocked and guaranteed to work like that. And no, with the next GeForce card set for release in Febuary (the GeForce FX), the Ti 4600 is not worth it.

5) Also consider getting a graphics card with a DVI connector, for a future upgrade to an LCD monitor. LCD's are smaller, lighter, completely flat (absolutely NO geometric distortions), consume far less energy than a CRT, and produce far less heat. Great for still 2D work, but CRT's are better for moving 3D and video.

6) Ask about other amenities like the mouse, keyboard, and speakers. Other than the monitor, these devices are your main interface with your PC, so don't overlook them! You can get wireless mice, but until battery technology significantly matures, you'll have to change them every week or two (which is an ongoing cost just like printer cartridges). For a good wired mouse, I suggest the MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 (the 3.0 version has a faster optical refresh). For a keyboard, get a fairly fancy one with a scroll wheel (good for older games that don't support the mouse scroll wheel) and internet/application quick keys. For speakers, Logitech has been making some awesome value speakers. The Z-340's and Z-360's are 3.1's, and the Z-540's and Z-560's are 5.1's. Any of those will probably greatly enhance your listening experience if you have cheapo speakers right now. :cool:

7) Definitely look into what JUAN DOS said about getting software through your school - you don't even have to go to a big-name university to get student discounts on most applications. Things like Adobe Acrobat (the full version, not the free reader), MS Office/Works, MS Visual Studio (with C/C++, Java, VB, etc), and maybe even WindowsXP Pro itself are all waaaay cheaper through a student discount.

8) I don't know if you can specify everything I've said here, but this is the kind of stuff that you can get in a custom-built PC. But you are going to school for computers, aren't you? Don't you know anyone who builds their own? I go to a fairly small college where comp sci is of slightly above average quality, and there are tons of people in my classes that custom build, so maybe poke and prod them? Maybe even ask them if they build PC's? :p

[Daywraith]

Arrrrrr just typed up a nice big reply and my computer crashed (dad blew a fuse fixing the toaster) anyway to lazy to type it all out again.

I am getting the computer custom built by my cousin because he can get the parts wholesale. I was just looking at the PC Company to get an idea of what I should buy.

I have been talking to friends how custom build there computers and are extremely dedicated gamers this is what they think I should get.

The guts of the system is as follows: (note its from www.ascent.co.nz)
AMD Palomino Athlon XP2100+ $306.37
Asus A7v333 motherboard $287.30
512MB generic DDR-Ram 333mHz $380.52
Procase PC-860usbb case&300w PSU$209.05
Leadtek GeForce4 Ti4600 128Mb $709.29
Weston Digital 80gb 7200RPM HHD $342.72
Pioneer 106s DVD/CD rom $129.53
Panasonic floppy drive $39.23
Genius KB-10X PS/2 keyboard $34.79
microsoft intellimouse optical $66.19
Philips 107e23 17"monitor(black)$340.83
Canon S200sp inkjet printer $184.37
GRAND TOTAL $2977.43

Note I will probably drop the Gefroce4 Ti 4600 down to 4200 and get a
Sound card and speakers. It doesn?t come with any software but I can get
that from my friends. What do you think?

[Mark Miller]

I take it thats in Nz currency, I'm not how that translates in US but the stuff sounds cool.
Mark

[Daywraith]

Yer Its in NZ currency which is like half that of US

[Budfred]

Sounds like a nice system, but no CD burner???

Budfred

[Daywraith]

I all ready have one.

[JUAN DOS]

100.00 NZD = 50.1286 USD

Gee, why not let dad build the PC?

[Daywraith]

lol..
Because my dad has a tendency to pull things to bits, spend years tampering with it and once/if he puts it back together it never works.

PS: sorry I have been absent so long I was at a LAN.
Ok this is what I decided to get in the end

AMD XP 2400-DDR AMD Athlon XP 2400+
* Onboard Video, Sound, LAN, 4X AGP, 56K modem
GeForce 4 Ti4600 128mb DDR, TV Out
512 MB DDR
80Gb (7200rpm) hard disk drive
LG 16x DVD IDE ROM Drive, 24mth warranty
HP Deskjet 3325, up to 1200x600dpi, 8ppm blk, 6ppm col, USB 2.0
1000W Skyhawk Subwoofer
LG 17" Digital Monitor - 3 year onsite swap out warranty
XP PRO
Optical Mouse
PCI TV Tuner with Remote & FM - TV Tuner and Capture

It comes to $3000 NZ deliver to my door. (hopefully in the next week).