Kicked to Desktop

[Jack Wanamaker]

I used to play alot of PC games without issue. Now I get kicked to Windows, no matter what game, even when I play in SAFE MODE. I have a PNY stick and a Micron stick of PC 2100, could this be the problem? I cannot recall when the problem started but I recently got the PNY stick of RAM and I recently got my Albatron GeForce4 TI4200 128MB "Medusa". I've tried killing every non-essential process that I run via taskbar, I've got current drivers for my sound and graphics cards, and I have DX 9 installed. My system works fine unless I game. When I game, sooner or later, i.e. after 5 minutes or 5 hours, I get kicked to Desktop. I think it may be a graphics card problem becuase it only shows up in games, but I'm really stumped. I defrag often, I run Norton Antivirus, and I even reformatted and reinstalled XP Pro and still I get kicked to the desktop. Can anybody help me? Thanks.:confused:

[E_G_Man]

If you still have your old card and memory maybe you should swap your new card with the old one and if you get kicked out than you know its a memory problem, or swap the memory and if you get kicked out than its a video card problem.
At least this way you could narrow your choices a little.

[Budfred]

Welcome to http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif

When you installed the new video drivers, did you uninstall the old ones first? It sounds like you could have a driver conflict. You might want to try going into Safe Mode and then checking Device Manager to make sure you have only one set of video drivers installed and no conflicts. If you do find either, I would Remover all video drivers and then reinstall.

Budfred

[Jack Wanamaker]

Thanks guys. I will try what both of you said to do. :)

[Jack Wanamaker]

I took out one stick of Ram and still I get problems, although now instead of getting kicked to desktop, I get a BSOD-like screen or just a black screen. So I guess the problem is not the ram. Now to test the vid card and drivers...

[ski]

It may also be caused by overheating, or by the power supply module being overloaded after installing the second RAM stick and the new video card.

Remove the computer's case, and run an external fan. If the problem stops, then install an extra case fan or two. Recommended locations are the lower front and upper rear.

If overheating is not the cause, then the system may need a higher capacity PS rated for at least 400 watts if your CPU is 1 GHz or faster, and the PS is rated for 300 watts or less.
Suggest getting a quality unit from either Antec, Enermax, or PC Power & Cooling.

[deddard]

Budfred's suggestion about the drivers is most likely the culprit - nvidia drivers can be a bit awkward sometimes, and will sulk if the old ones are not uninstalled.
Try uninstalling the old ones, and remove the new ones and reinstall them, so windows knows what it's supposed to be doing (so much for plug and play huh?!)
let us know how you get on.

[gopi_vs]

Minimise the programs running in the background. Reinstall the display adapter [Clean install from the scratch].

[Jack Wanamaker]

For those of you who have posted I greatly appreciate all you comments/ help.
Initially I would play and get kicked to the desktop. Now though I've been getting lock-ups (I kill whatever game I'm playing (usually MOH mulitplayer) with task-manager, and then hope for better luck next time) and last time I got a black screen and this clicking sound in my headphones. Also the first two times I reset my vidcard wouldn't post
I'm getting exasperated. I really hope it is over-heating / insufficient power. My Geforce4 is my newest and most valuable component in my system right now, so I don't want it to be the culprit. I have a generic (POWER MAN) power supply that's 300W. The thing is though I used to run a Leadtek Geforce2 Ultra and the other stick of ram without issue, so I wonder if the jump from a Geforce2 Ultra to a Geforce4 will increase power requirements that much.
I just rolled back my driver from 41.09 to 40.07, but I'm afraid to test it, i.e. I fear I'll cause permanent dammage with these lock-ups/BSOD/non-post situations. I have my old box, a PIII 450(slot) with a TNT2 (16meg), and I if I put the TNT2 in my new box if I get issues. Of course the TNT2 will use alot less power, and if I put my Geforce4 in my old box it'll only have the 230W PSU to draw on.
Is there any conclusive test I can do to see if it is overheating or if it is not getting enough power? Or is there a test that will tell me if the driver is messed up? Thanks again for all your suggestions/ explanations. Will I ever get my system back to running stable? :(

[Jack Wanamaker]

Jeeze I'm not much of a writer. I mean: "I have my old box, a PIII 450(slot) with a TNT2 (16meg), and if I put the TNT2 in my new box I wonder if I will get issues."

[ski]

To check if the power supply is the cause, temporarily install the TNT card in the new system. If that fixes things, then the PS is a likely suspect.
To confirm this, reduce the game settings to the lowest configurations, use 640x480 resolution(or the lowest possible), and 16 bit color depth.

If it still crashes with the TNT card, then remove the computer's case and run an external fan to check if overheating is causing the problem.
If this fixes things, then install an extra case fan or two. Recommended locations are upper rear and lower front of the case.

Also, did you try each memory module one at a time?

[dilsburger]

Jack I don't want to tangle you up with what ski has mentioned - go ahead and follow his suggestions first. That card may be pushing the 300W psu over the edge...

I just wanted to say that I had quite a go when I added my first GF4 card several months back and recently ran into a quirky problem all similar in nature to yours.

On my K7VTA3 mb running WinXP I couldn't get an XFX card to run at all - crashed exactly as you described even after reformatting and fresh driver install. I replaced with a PNY and things went well.

I upgraded my mb to KX7333 and the PNY card wouldn't seat properly and I could only post with the damn case lying on it's side. I sat it upright and got a post error every time.

I swapped the PNY for an MSI card and got a post error - so after messing around I booted once without tightening the slot screw down and it's run perfectly ever since. I've been reluctant to even move up to the 40.07 drivers now that I'm running so well. But I'm not happy being downlevel this far anymore and will soon have to.

I hope that it turns out to be a heat or undersized psu problem for you. If it continues I'll dig back in my memory and old posts to try to offer suggestions....

[Jack Wanamaker]

First of all, again I heartily thank all of you for your help.
I ran my system with the Geforce4 in it last night with a 2' by 2' fan blowing air on the system (case is off) and luckily I didn't have trouble but I think it may have been luck as I didn't play that long. Also I seem to be getting some artifacts now and that worries me.
Anyway, I just ran my system with my old TNT2 and IT LOCKED UP ON ME. So what the hell do I conclude now? My good friend sanity, our time was sooo short... :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Jack Wanamaker]

Oh yes, and I've not tried each memory stick individually. I suspect though that it must be something graphically related as my system is rock solid otherwise.
Then again I don't know and that's why I'm here getting help from people who know more.

[Jack Wanamaker]

Ok one more addendum

gopi_vs I like your suggestion but I've reinstalled drivers, XP Pro + SP1, I've clean booted, I've reformatted, I've killed damn near every process with Task Master and still I have trouble. Any additional ideas?

[ski]

Sometimes it's best to go back to square one, and use the configuration when the system was stable just to check if something other than new hardware/software is causing the problem.
Remove the PNY memory module, and install the TNT card and its drivers(make sure to uninstall the new video card from Device Manager and its software from Add/Remove Programs in Safe mode).

If the problem still happens, then something other than the addition of the new video card and memory is causing it.
If the problem stops, then uninstall the old video card and drivers, and install the new one.
If the problem still happens, then make sure the new video card is firmly seated, there's no looseness or freeplay in its slot, and that it does not creep out of its slot when its hold down screw is installed(Sometimes video cards work better when the hold down screw is not installed).
If those are ok or do not help, then do a longer test with the external fan.
If things work ok with the fan,, then install the PNY memory module.

[dilsburger]

What is your mb chipset? Have you updated those drivers? VIA 4 in 1 drivers and GF4 have a past history of not playing well together...

[Jack Wanamaker]

My DFI AK76-SN uses the old AMD 761 chipset and I'm still running the bios revision the board came with (I've never flashed my bios, I'm afraid I'll mess it up, is this fear rational?) and I've not updated my vidcard's bios either. When I switched out my vidcards I didn't unistall /install any drivers or software, so I guess I'll be trying the card switch again now. I've been screwing the card into the slot so I'll try it without the screw next time.
Again, thanks to all of you guys. You give me hope that I will fix my machine. :)

[Jack Wanamaker]

Ok I found newer drivers for my IDE BUS and my "miniport" (what the hell is that?) but the readme does not list Windows XP as a compatible OS. Should I install anyway? Maybe it's time for that ASUS A7N8X I've been looking at.

[Jiggy]

try a set of windows 2000 drivers for it.

[dilsburger]

OK. If it were me at this point I would do exactly as ski says and get everything back to where it was before you added the PNY stick. He's alot more experience then me I'm pretty sure.

I didn't mean to post directly after him as I had my post sitting idle for awhile before I sent then realized he had made that suggestion afterwards. Sorry ski.

You don't want to keep throwing things at the system at right now ... Try to get it working as it was originally. I have been there too. :)

[Budfred]

I am guessing that this is in reference to the other thread you are running currently. It is real confusing when you start a new thread and there is no real connection to the old one. Please keep them together or explain the problem over again.

Budfred

[Jack Wanamaker]

You are correct. I messed it up by accident. Can I move it over to the other thread?

[Budfred]

You can't, but you can ask mjc or PaleoPete to move it for you, they are the moderators.

Budfred

[ski]

No reason to apologize, dilsburger.
Fire away with your thoughts and recommendations.
The more people who lend their suggestions, the quicker the correct solution is arrived at.

[Jack Wanamaker]

Thanks guys, whoever fixed my posting mistake, thank you too. I took out my PNY stick of Ram and my Geforce4 and then I realized I had forgotten to unistall the Geforce4. So I put the GF4 back in and it wouldn't post. I had to jiggle it and try 3 or 4 times and then it posted. This was not the end of my trouble though. On that boot my machine reset once it showed me the desktop. On the next boot I couldn't get my MX 700 mouse to work. I'm writing this on the boot after that, which seems to be ok.
I've noticed that I get artifacts now, and the longer I play the greater their frequency. I get a black or grey horizontal stripe that varies in size between an inch or three inches and shows up at different places on the screen too. They persist for roughly a frame or two and then go away. I get them at startup too, but the desktop is free of them. I've been running an external fan with my case off and I've not had any restarts (YET) but I get the artifacts.
I really appreciate all of you guys' help but now I'm thinking I might pool your suggestions and forget about the hammer I'm saving for and go buy a new mb, a good PSU, a better case with better cooling, and reinstall everything and offer sacrafices to the gods. I mean even if I get it to stop restarting, I don't want to have to deal with the graphical artifacts and the inconsistent boot behavior.
Does this sound rational? If so, I think I'm going to get an ASUS A7N8X and an ANTEC TRUEPOWER 430W PSU. I don't know about the case though. Does this setup sound like it will work? All I'm asking for is a stable system that will allow me to play a few hours of games uninterupted, and without artifacts. Time to evicerate a goat...

[Budfred]

Well I bet the new motherboard and power supply and all will work, but I imagine you can probably still fix your current system if you just take it slow and step by step. Before taking that step, I would start over with a reformat (after backup) and reinstall. Check the manual for your current motherboard carefully to see if you need to disable anything onboard and I would probably clear CMOS for good measure so that you start with defaults. If you load everything back carefully and install your video card with a clean install, you can probably get this system going well.

On the other hand, if you just need an excuse to upgrade your system, lets say it is a lost cause and go for it.....:D

Budfred

[ski]

Based on your having to jiggle the GF4 video card around to get the system to post and also experiencing lockups with the TNT card installed, it appears that the AGP slot may be messed up.
However, to rule out that possibility, make sure the GF4 card is firmly seated. Also, do the same if you decide to reinstall the TNT card to check things. Sometimes video cards require an extra firm push.
If the cards are firmly seated and the problems still happen, then it sounds like it's time for a new MB(and other stuff).

[dilsburger]

See how convoluted it can get? Totally agree Budfred. In essence I took the same route in upgrading awhile back. But hey, I know how it feels. :D :D Jack, this kind of thing will make you crazy! But it most likely can be worked through.

Ski - I was wondering if the AGP slot could be the culprit? Possibly from all the activity something could have gotten in there to cause wacko behavior? Maybe a shot of compresed air couldn't hurt...? Or maybe it's not fixable.

forget about the hammer I'm saving for and go buy a new mb, a good PSU, a better case with better cooling, and reinstall everything and offer sacrafices to the gods
With a new mb/psu you will get what you need to support the new technology of the graphics card and take you back to happy computng/gaming... I love excuses to upgrade providing my wallet agrees.

[Jack Wanamaker]

You guys are cool.
I have to admit I'm not sure I'm up to all the time/effort to rebuild my system from scratch. Then again I don't want this box to end up in a landfill prematurely.
It's interesting that you mention the force reqiured for proper AGP insertion ski, as I couldn't get the TNT2 to post untill I really shoved it in there, but it had a comforting solidness to the fit after I had. My Geforce has a big #@$%ing copper heatsink so even when I really jam it in the slot it leans down if I don't use the screw. If the culprit is my AGP slot, what can I do? I'm not sure how else I can play with getting the card in the slot, save for the manifestly likely-to-cause-permanent-dammage methods.
I hate the idea of quitting on this though. Do you think a newer bios could "fix" my AGP slot? The DFI bios revisions don't list any AGP issues. What is that sound? ... I hear NewEgg calling me... must resist... must ... stay strong... ;)

[dilsburger]

Some of the new mb's I've seen at my local shop have a plastic clip to help secure the agp card in the rear. I don't know if you can get such a thing to retro-fit yours or not. If you have a retailer nearby perhaps you could check on it. Have you tried standing on it? :D

I know for a fact the slot on my board is fussy so maybe something like this could help...

[ski]

Did the problems stop with the TNT card firmly seated(after removing the GF4 from Dev. Mgr. and uninstalling its drivers, and using just the Micron memory module)?

Also, if your MB has an older AGP 1.0 style slot, then there could be issues with this, even though Albatron states that their GF4 TI 4200 medusa card is AGP 1.0 compliant.
These new cards seem work better with an AGP 2.0 slot.

[Jhorner1]

Just a note on the AGP cards. They usually click twice before they are seated properly. If they don't they will not work right.

[Jack Wanamaker]

**Once again thanks for all your suggestions and support.**

Well I've been running the 2' by 2' fan on my open case again, and I've been using my Geforce4 without the slot screw and I'm not using the PNY module. I find that at near-safe mode settings (resolution is 1024 x 768, otherwise it's safemode) I've had no kicks and no artifacts. Thing is I don't believe I've changed anything but the resolution, but for three days I've had no kicks or crashes. I guess maybe you guys were right about the fan, even though it did crash on me with the fan using safemode settings... I'm not sure what to think though. Right now I'm soaking up all the stable-gaming justice I can get. What do I do now though? I mean I guess I could stick with this but it seems dumb to use a Geforce4 TI 4200 to run games in near safe-mode settings. Whatever though, at least my machine is stable in some configuration. Thanks all.

[dilsburger]

Can you run in normal mode with the TNT2 and without the PNY stick and the case closed as you did before you added anything?

Running "near safe mode" doesn't really help to fix anything at this point especially if you haven't proven you can run in the exact previous config you were in before you added both.

If you can run in normal mode with the original config, I would add the PNY stick and play games to eliminate the memory. If you can game then add the GF4, play games and post back with the results.

I think at this point it's got to be done 1 step at a time only. You must get back to running normally & successfully before you added anything if that is possible. If not, that's another angle. ;)

[deddard]

Don't know anything about the particular Mobo you are using, but i do know that AGP has several different flavours:
IS the GF card you are running VOLTAGE compatable with your AGP slot?
Some of the newer cards need AGP4 and higher as well - just check that this is available on your machine.