Computer buiding decisions

[cudham]

Hi,
I'm a new member and think this could be a very useful site indeed. I have decided to build my own computer and have spent weeks 'geekishly' scouring component review websites and aquiring books and a cd to help in my venture. I play some games,increasingly into digital photography, spend time on the net and my daughters play and store music...and how! (Dad takes a back seat to Christina Aguileira and Kazoo!)Although my present Pentium 2 450MHz is still going great guns, a trail blazer in 1998 feels a bit Stone-age these days.I have decided that over the next few weeks/months I will treat the family/myself and put together a machine that is Hi spec and as future proof as possible. This means I can spread the cost so money is no real hurdle (within reason)I want quality.
I reckon I will opt for a P4 2.8 CPU, 512 MB Dimms and 80 GB hard drive. Yesterday I bought a 350W case and a Gigabyte 8PE667 845PE Ultra 2 Motherboard.
Its presumptious I know for a first timer, but a few of the thousand questions in my head are


Do I get a combined CD/DVD Rewriter or would I get better results using separate drives? IDE or SSCI ?

Any suggestions for a suitable CPU cooler (Pentium 2.8) are there any particular designs that are more effective?

Should I fit any other fans apart from the one already installed in the case. eg Hard drive fan? Is fan noise a factor?

The motherboard supports Hyperthreading. Is it worth getting this enabled? Will my desired CPU support this? What does it do ?

On board sound supports 6 channel audio,will it do justice to Creative 6.1 speakers or do I disable and get an all singing all dancing sound card ?

As time is not a factor are there seasonal trends that effect component prices? e.g. do prices plummet to rock bottom in the spring? (fat chance!)

Graphics card with TV, or separate cards. How much does the TV aspect detract from the quality of the card for games?

Picture quality, CRT or LCD (space isn't a factor) which is best quality?

finally


Have I fouled up already?


Cudham

[Robbie-Knobbie]

I'll venture a stab at a few or your questions and hope I help more than hurt...

combined CD/DVD Rewriter... Having two drives is a real convenience... I'd skip the all-in-one's. IDE is more common, and a touch less expensiva as a result, I'd leave the SCSI to the network admins.

CPU Cooler... unless you're overclocking or something, just look for one recomended for your processor, it should say on the package. Copper is always better than aluminum though.

Fit other fans... only if your machine seems to be running hot. Most motherboards include a utility for monitoring processor and case temp. If you're not overclocking and running heavy 3D games, you'll probably be fine.

Onboard Sound... I don't know which sound circuit your board has, but in general most of the newer on-board sound setups are excellent, sure you might do better with a seperate sound card but mere mortals like me can't tell the difference.

Seasonal Differences... Component prices are constantly riding a slippery slope. Whatever costs $100 today will cost $75 next month and $50 the month after. Video card prices should be tumbling soon with the release of nVidia's new cards though.

Graphics cards with TV... For really TOP notch video performance (you said money was no object!) you're probably looking for an ATI All-in-Wonder 9700 Pro card. It has the fastest video engine available (this week anyway) and I've read that it's TV in/out features are very good as well. You'll pay for that level of performance though... I think about $450.

CRT or LCD... HANDS DOWN, CRT. While they may look chic, LCD's just can't match picture quality with a good flat screen picture tube. Go to Best Buy's and try to convince a salesman to put an LCD next to a Tube... IF he does, you'll see a world of difference, but he won't want to since LCD's run three or four times the price of a CRT.

[Whyzman]

Hello cudham,

Welcome tohttp://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif Forums!

Just a quick comment...I would suggest bequeathing your elder statesman computer to your daughters and build this one for yourself! ;) :D

Reason being, we've had numerous posts lately with viral infections due to programs and websites that offer the downloading of music...:eek:

Just a thought...

Have you checked NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com) for pricing? Great etail company...

ATI All-in-Wonder cards...I love mine...cannot wait to get to the AIW 9700 Pro...http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=ati+9700+pro

[yawningdog]

Do I get a combined CD/DVD Rewriter or would I get better results using separate drives? IDE or SSCI ?
Avoid the combos.If one breaks, they're both broken. I hate that. Stick with IDE.
Do I get a combined CD/DVD Rewriter or would I get better results using separate drives? IDE or SSCI ?
Might be more trouble than its worth. Disabling onboard stuff somehow often doesn't work out like you want it to.
Have I fouled up already?
I think maybe. Check and see if your power supply is approved by your motherboard manufacturer. It's been awhile since I've built a machine from scratch, but 350w seems a bit small for a 2.8ghz processor.

Allow me to be the first to suggest Linux as an OS.

[Budfred]

Sounds like a good plan overall. I agree with Whyzman about the downloading music thing. You mentioned Kazaa and that is one of the nastiest programs out there for installing garbage on your system. You might want to run Spybot Search & Destroy to see what kind of stuff it has put there.

I completely disagree about the CRT vs. LCD. I have LCD screens and I love them. They are reported to be less good for gaming because they don't refresh as quickly as CRTs, but this is changing and the newer ones are doing well in that area as well. The picture quality is the best I've ever had and I love the screen area. I also like that they take up a lot less room and they use less power.

If you buy a DVD burner, it will also burn CDs, so the combo idea is not an issue. If you want to go that way, I would go with the new Sony that does DVD-RW and DVD+RW. I would then also get a second optical drive, either a CDRom or DVDRom.

For the 350Watt power supply: that is a bit low for future options. Also, if it came with the case, the quality may be lacking and that is an area you don't want to lack.

For the fans: I would install at least one fan low in the front (intake) and one high in the back (outflow) to keep the system as cool as possible. This will lengthen the life of your system and reduce problems.

Budfred

[Whyzman]

Graphics card with TV, or separate cards. How much does the TV aspect detract from the quality of the card for games?

As far as I'm aware, with the ATI All-in-Wonders it's a "non-issue!"

[j_sayles]

and I'll add that a P4 2.8 does not support hyper-threading, in order to use this feature you need a P4 3.06GHz processor. I have not used this yet but I have heard lots of good things about it but the processor is priced very high, might be an upgrade possibility at a later time.

[killercow]

:)

Basics for what you'll need:

Case Power/Supply:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...rtby=14&order=1

You have the CPU so i cant help very mich with a P4 mobo look around and listen to the guys here they helped me build mine.

512 mb DDR ram PC2700 or 2100 depending on what mobo supports

CD/RW drive at least 48x/24x/48x

CD/DVD drive

Floppy

80 gig hard drive for an average gamer/music sharer add/remove upon your needs

WIN XP - HOME

Video card:
This video card will out perform the GeForce 4 MX series and give you the performance you need:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=14-128-111

go for a GF4 ti model if u got $$$

u can find cheap dell and sony monitors... just look around and wait for good prices unless u got a lot of $$$ and are impatient
:D :D kinda like me just w/o the $$$;)

[Nooyawkah]

Some humble opinions:

You might consider upgrading the power supply. Most power supplies that come with cases aren't worth a damn. They're light, pooly built and don't provide the power of a name brand with the same wattage. (Unless you bought an Antec or similar case that comes with a good PSU). Some good PSUs are Antec, Enermax, Powmax, PC Power and Cooling, and a handful of others. If you're planning for the future go 430, 480, 550 watts. You'll spend a bit more but you'll be prepared for the future.

As for the cpu, the prices drop dramatically just after a bit newer technology comes out. Then yesterday's super-duper becomes todays nearly-as-good. New models seem to come out about every 3 months.

The dvd writer you want is falling rapidly in price. The $500 model from 6 months ago is now two hundred bucks. I first bought a 16X CD-RW maybe 15 months ago for way over $100. Now you can get a 52X for $50 after a rebate or two.

Using rounded IDE cables for give you a lot more airflow, and they're cheap now.

I personally love LCDs. I find the picture much, much better. If you want to be safe for the future, get a 17 or 18" screen with digital capabilities. This should be great with a TV setup.

Have fun!

[malcore]

I have two machines going at home.

One is using a Samsung Syncmaster 191T LCD monitor and the other is using a Viewsonic P90F CRT monitor.

The LCD is beautiful, sleek and stylish. The CRT is beatiful and stylish.

Side by side, hands down the picture quality on the CRT is much better. For gaming, the LCD has troubles.

This LCD model is top of the line, critically acclaimed and damned expensive. While it is a beautiful looking thing, it's performance does not match its price. The Viewsonic is an amazing monitor and worth every penny and then some.

The LCD is not very good for motion, but excellent for text and 2D images.

Prices???

Samsung LCD $1100USD


Viewsonic CRT $300USD

You decide...http://www.viewsonic.com/images/IMG_p90f_lrg.jpg

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/display/samsung_19_lcd/feature.jpg

[Budfred]

malcore,

How long ago did you buy the LCD? I have heard that they are getting much better for games and are beginning to look comparable. I use LCDs at home and a CRT at work. I much prefer the LCDs, but I don't do gaming more active than the occasional pinball.

Budfred

[malcore]

Budfred,

I bought the LCD about a month and a half ago.

If you put two top quality monitors, one CRT and one LCD, side by side you will notice the difference.

The colour on LCDs seem more vibrant, but next to a CRT you can see the colours are not quite as true.

LCDs are great for text, better than CRTs. But when there is any motion on the screen, be it games, TV, DVDs, the CRTs shine.

Even comparing identical high quality photos, the CRT gives a truer and nicer representation.

You really need to see them side by side. I am speaking from what I see, not from what reviewers and manufacturers say or write.

And when you consider the price difference, the only real reason for an LCD is space and looks.

Again, if you use your computer mainly for displaying text and 2D images, the LCDs are great.

Edit_ another good reason for using an LCD monitor is that they are easier on the eyes.

[Budfred]

And use less electricity.

I had mine side by side until my CRT died, but it was older so it may not have been a fair comparison.

I believe CRTs may still have the edge on motion, but I think the gap is closing and the prices are dropping. My 17" cost about $400 and can be had for less than that now. It isn't topline, but I doubt I can tell the difference, especially not well enough to pay a couple of hundred more.

Budfred

[Nooyawkah]

I really don't want to get into this, but this guy never said he was a gamer. First of all he said he was planning for the future. This is 2003 and you're trying to keep someone ahead of the curve with a CRT monitor! hmmmmm

Also, my friend is a graphic artist. He has one Apple computer and the other machine is a home-built with a Matrox video card and a CRT monitor. He says they are both excellent for his purposes and greatly prefers the LCD to his former CRT monitors.

[malcore]

Why such a harsh tone Nooyawkah??

I was only sharing thoughts on my personal experience with both types of monitors. I said for my purposes a CRT gave more for the money.I offered what I thought were the advantages of both to maybe help cudham make his own choice.

It's not an argument. And he did say he played some games.

[Budfred]

cudham,

I noticed that we have had an active discussion about your computer options and you haven't posted back at all. Are you out there reading this and have you reached any conclusions? Do you have any other questions?

Budfred

[cudham]

Hi Guys,
Sorry for the absence (I'm still getting the hang of this forum) Your replies have been helpful and thought provoking. I have decided, on reflection,to get another case with temperature gauge and install a 420W/450W PSU. When I have finally built my 'dim the street lights' powerhouse computer,I will transfer my ageing P2 450Mhwz into the 350W case I bought previously and update the mobo to an Athlon mid range (the case takes both MOBO's) and leave that for my girls to continue polluting with Kazoo and boy bands(thanks for the infection advice)
So where have I got to..Well The new case I have in mind is Aluminium, has a 23 inch temperature sensor that can be placed anywhere inside the case (where do I put it and what temp should I be looking for?) it has 4 X 5.25 External, 2 X 3.5 External & 4 X 3.5 internal, CPU blower 80mm fan & HDD/Systems-on/off status.
I am looking at two types of PSU power supplies
1. Q TECH 450 W PSU dual fan Gold £25.99
2. HIPER TS 420 W, Gold Plate connections 2 cooling fans £54

Why the difference in price? is the extra worth it??

I've decided to go for a 120 GB 7,200 rpm hard drive and stick with the 512 Dimms memory. I will probably get a P4 2.53 CPU (although if a 2.8 at a reasonable price comes along in the next weeks I may be tempted. 3.06 with hyperthreading....£500...forget it, for now!!)
The advice you have posted about the screens I find totally confusing CRT & LCD obviously both have staunch advocates (Budfred & Malcore!) but as the screen purchase is still some way down the road I'll bide my time.

Unfortunately(fortunately?) I am going skiing in Switzerland in 2 weeks time so the computer building will have to take a back seat for a while. Much as I am itching to get started my funds are not unlimited.... Of course if a kind person would want to send me $1,000 I'll get stated straight away ?

Anyway thanks again for all the advice and interest. I don't feel I am walking alone!!

Cudham

[Nooyawkah]

No offense meant, malcore. I posted that after midnight (AND past my bedtime as well) and I guess I was getting a bit grouchy.

[Whyzman]

I am going skiing in Switzerland in 2 weeks time so the computer building will have to take a back seat for a while.

Well...your decision to allocate funds in such a "non-geeky" manner definitely is disappointing! :( :D :D At risk of my reputation...I would agree, there's more to life than just computers! This attitude does not come as a result of any mind altering drugs or social pressure. However, if required to testify under oath, I would have to point out a serious blow to my head the other day which might have had an impact on my "failed" judgment! :rolleyes:

Hmmmmmm.....it would appear in light of the "debate" regarding LCD and CRT monitors proffered in this thread it might do us well to take a closer look at where technology is taking us in this regard. In fact, I'm going to start an investigative task force to look into the matter in another thread! ;)

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20197

[Budfred]

Thanks for the update.

I am not familiar with either brand of power supply you mention, but here is an article that might give you some guidance on selection:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/index.html

Budfred

[killercow]

if you cant decide between the 2 monitors ... why not use both:)

[Budfred]

Maybe because that would be quite a lot of money for most people.

[killercow]

well he must have a good bit because he has an lcd and a crt

[Budfred]

"well he must have a good bit because he has an lcd and a crt"

Who are you talking about? The person that started this thread is looking for ideas about building a system from scratch.

[killercow]

malcore...he said he had a lcd and crt ... oooooooo i thought he started the thread ... my bad

[saphalline]

I have decided that over the next few weeks/months I will treat the family/myself and put together a machine that is Hi spec and as future proof as possible. This means I can spread the cost so money is no real hurdle
If you want to spread this out, I suggest buying the less cost-sensitive components first, as this will decrease your chance of losing money on the parts that will be sitting around waiting to be used.

Parts whose prices stay relatively stable - case, power supply, CD/DVD drives (they've gotten so common that they really can't be made any cheaper!), cables (rounded IDE cables!), surge protectors (you are getting one, right?), case fans, CPU heatsink/fan units (Alpha makes some excellent P4 heatsinks that can use ordinary 80mm case fans for cooling), speakers (maybe only a 2.1 set-up unless you want to listen to your own music ;) ), CRT monitors, and the ol' floppy drive (if you even want one).

Slightly price sensitive - CD-RW drives (tho they have leveled off quite a bit), hard drives, sound card (the SB Audigy is a good deal), and the motherboard (these don't have huge price drops but they do go down in price steadily).

Extremely price sensitive - Processors, video cards (the low-end cards change less than the upper-end cards), and LCD monitors (these often drop 50% in just a year!).