I want to buy a new computer too

[Ed junior]

I don't have much patience, I guess. I just want a "new" computer, and AMD is the chip set of choice for the cheap box makers in Eugene. I don't want to buy via mail, thank you. And, I'm using my old periphs, just buying the box.

So my questions are these:

1, why can't I find an easy Specifications page? Example, gamer, artist, printer, surfer, emailer, etc. I'm primarily looking for a fast loader (despite 56k modem and copper in the country), and upgrading to XP .. I do mostly text work, some spreadsheet (thanks, I have the software; still good after all these years!) -- so am not really looking for too much in expensive "geek stuff."

2, I have a 4-gig HD in my old Compaq 133. The new 1.7ghz will have a 20 gig HD, and an extra bay. Of course I'll have floppies, and a CD RW, but my real question is -- can I move the old HD to the new computer, as say Drive E? My CD would remain D:\.

I figure on a case price, with OS, probably about $435 or less; as I have a Zoom modem, I don't need the net card and internal modem that usually takes up more room in the case. (I'd love a case I can put a handle on, make it easier to move!)

I'm a front end man; worked on Burroughs' CP/U machine back in the 70s! -- after trying the Apple (pre-macintosh). Of course, worked my way up from an early 8088 with, count them, two memory chips. Ancient!

You guys talk about building your own, and so forth, that's cool except that if I go to a company and buy from them, I expect them to provide some service. At age 67, this "Junior" learned a long time ago to let others be the experts. I just write about it!

[Budfred]

It sounds like you may be best off with a laptop, although you won't find one for that price.

You can use your old hard drive, but you will have to use Device Manager to set the drive letter for you CDRW if you don't want it to become E:. You will also have to uninstall Windows on the old drive unless you want a dual boot system.

If you don't want to buy by mail, you will probably need to look at local vendors rather than the big chains. You are wanting to leave out stuff they generally put in automatically these days, so you need a store small enough to do that kind of custom build and still not charge too much. I would check local computer magazine to see what is available in the area.

As for why you can't find things with easy spec sheets by type of use, I don't know.....

Budfred

[Nooyawkah]

I'm only 11 years your junior and not long ago I was afraid to give out my credit card online. You can buy almost anything online and the new encripted software makes it very unlikely you will EVER have your number stolen. The folks here will tell you about some excellent, honest online dealers. As for your old programs, they may not all work on XP. Also, a 4GB harddrive is pretty useless given today's technology. Maybe you might reconsider your plan. It's kind of like trying to jam your old Studebaker parts and some stored up leaded gasoline into your new Cadillac. It just ain't gonna fly.

[drdan]

I don't know if credit card info has anything to do with your reluctance to buy online but my solution to that was to get a low limit card just for buying online. Then if something happened and Visa didn't stand behind their "no liability" claim the damage was still minimal.

As far as costs such as shipping the fact that you pay no sales tax usually cancels out that disadvantage.

With the ability to check out sellers online I'm not sure there is much, if any, increased risk of getting ripped off either.

Still a smaller local place to build what you want may be your best bet. It won't hurt to at least cruise some internet sellers or even ebay to get some ideas and price ranges.

[Ed junior]

Thanks to all of you for your responses. Perhaps if I put it this way...

I am seeking a simple list of specirications for a 1.+ GHz computer, such as 128 /' 256 RAM, 20 / 40 GIG HD...video memory? Card? Sound card?

I'm not doing image mangling, or CAD CAM, etec -- I use LOTUS 1-2-3 for my spreadsheet work. If it won't work with XP, there'll be some simple program that will. As for word processing, WordPad does for me right now. (If push > shove, I can always work in DOS too.)

My complaint is that I couldn't find a simple rundown on the various and confusing information available.

PURCHASE LOCATION / REASON. My desire to buy locally is based on shipping charges somewhat over the moon (I used to handle shipping receiving for a hardware company) AND have a local source for immediate repair and service. Also, I believe I get a more honest appraisal and price than if I deal with a vendor thousands of miles away.

[Budfred]

A lot of us here order from Newegg because they have good prices, reasonable shipping and good service. You might want to check them out at least for price comparison. They are www.newegg.com

As for specs: if I were building the kind of system you are describing, I would go with the ECS K7S5A motherboard and AMD XP 1700+ that Newegg has for about $100. The best price point for a hard drive is 80gigs and Western Digital sells a Caviar version of the 80gig that still has a 3 year warranty while almost all others now come with a one year.

I would go with SDRAM rather than DDR since you don't need speed. I would want at least 512meg, especially if you go with WinXP. If you are open to an alternative for your needs Win2000Pro might be a better choice. It has been around longer so more things are compatible and you don't have to deal with XP's activation hassle. It is very stable.
Most motherboards come with decent sound if you don't want hi-fi sound. Speakers can be had very cheaply as well. Video is pretty simple for your needs. I bought a 64meg ATI type from Newegg recently for about $25 if I remember correctly. Cases can vary a lot, if you want to be able to access it easily, go with one that has thumbscrews. You will probably want at least a couple of fans as well, newer CPUs get hot. You will need a heatsink and fan for your CPU as well, get good quality here, fried CPUs are not nice.

Power supply is important also. If you don't use more than a hard drive, optical drive and other basics, you can probably get by with 300watts, but I would want 350 to be sure. Get a good quality power supply since many of the cheap ones cause all sorts of problems and dies prematurely. Most of the ones that come with a case are garbage.

For optical drives, I prefer to have a CDRW and DVDRom drive so that I can copy from one to the other if I wish. CDRWs are going for peanuts these days and DVDRom are often pretty cheap too.

Hope this helps. The number of products available is so overwhelming that it is nearly impossible to be more specific. If you have a system you are looking at and want to run it by us here, we can give you a more helpful analysis of whether it will suit your needs.

Budfred

I just noticed I forgot to welcome you so:

Welcome to http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif

[Ed junior]

Thank you very much for the specifications. In regard to the OS, I'd forgotten the WinXP registration hassle. So all I need is a LEGAL copy of Win2000Pro.

From your description, I have a clear picture of a moderate-speed response unit that by itself should not cost much -- and should not have any problems.

I have a 17" video, plus a couple of mice and keyboards and printers -- it's only the tower I really want to replace. I expect to save my old HD, small as it is, only because I don't want the hassle of duping off the text and finance files. They're not active, but I need to have them handy without fumbling through various floppies.

I've done business consulting, where clients have the option of purchasing all materials and files pertaining to their businesses -- so that I have no onhand records (other than ancient file copies, of course: paper!) I've even sent negatives to the subjects I've photographed, or as an alternative, to the various historical societies, just to cut down the litter about me. I know have it down to one three-walled and shelved roo!

I've made my notes, and you're just in time as I wanted to go shopping tomorrow (Tuesday). I've a list of shops in Eugene, Oregon, and I'll find a suitable unit there -- now that I have your input.

I don't know if I'll buy, tomorrow, or just take notes.

[BigBlue66]

Originally posted by drdan
As far as costs such as shipping the fact that you pay no sales tax usually cancels out that disadvantage.

Oh crap, here we go again. :rolleyes:

Should I? Nah, ignorance is bliss, I reckon.

As for a good SDRAM board, you can't go wrong with the MSI K7T Turbo2 motherboard. Read the reviews on Newegg. You'll see.

[drdan]

Apparently I missed something. What do you mean by "Oh crap, here we go again"?

[Ed junior]

Not paying sales tax PLUS paying shipping -- equals or balances out. I guess.

However, think for a moment. Most of you guys and gals know what you're doing under the hood of your machine. I may know now to kick the tires, and make sure my CPU fan stays clean -- along with the rest of the board. I can change oil on my car. Neither fits me to be a mechanic for the respective machines! SO, if something goes wrong, I much prefer to have a local dealer being able to handle the machine -- I can drive there and back, and wait the bulk of the day if necessary.

If I have to ship the machine somewhere else, how long does THAT take?

I made a major mistake in buying a customized computer, and printer, for a business. When the printer went down, I was out of business for two weeks as the business WAS the printing. Standard printers wouldn't have produced anything. Yes, it was a major mistake; I should have sweated my way to use a PC, standard software and hardware -- and I don't mind admitting it was a very costly error: $22,000 cost.

Although TODAY I am not faced with making a business decision, I do enjoy reading your remarks (and others) enough to be on line nightly. Can't do that if my box of cookies is somewhere else!

(What d you call an old computer? A Box of Cookies.)

ON THE OS. I have been informed that the XP machine is highly stable -- so my question on OS becomes, is Win XP worth the difference from Win 2000Pro?

[Nooyawkah]

Good point about having it built locally...if it makes you feel more confident then do it.

As far as XP/2000 the debate will go on and on. I use XP myself, but you mentioned you were using old software, old printers, etc. XP may or may not work with XP. Have drivers been updated? It would pay for you to go to each manufacturers website and look for XP drivers for each item.You might look also to see if they have 2000 drivers as well. That would let you know right there.

[Jumby]

If you still want to use some of your old stuff and you really don't need the most powerful computer you can buy, go here and check out some of the buys. If you want to build your own, go here and get good parts at a good price. If you really aren't sure what and why and how, do what some have said here, go to a local shop and tell them exactly what you want and they'll build it for you...using some of your parts or not.

[Jumby]

Sorry, the links didn't copy. Here http://www.compuplus.com And http://www.computer-show.com/Modern/index.asp?CartId=1384220RPZFI46

[drdan]

Okay, good point about buying from a distance. I've had good luck with the five computers I've bought online but it always seems like things are going well - until they don't.

I also deliberately did not put an online purchased computer to any use in our business where we were dependent on it or even inconvenienced much if it didn't work.

[BigBlue66]

DRDAN:

I've made mention on this forum before about the misconception people have about sales taxes. That's what I meant about 'here we go again'.

If your state has a sales tax, and the last time I checked, CO does, then that state will most likely have the complement of the sales tax, known as use tax.

Basically, if you buy something from out-of-state without paying sales tax on it, and then bring it into your state and use it, you will most likely owe use tax on the purchase. (Sometimes includes shipping and handling costs as well)

The only way you can get out of paying use tax is if you're buying the item for resale or some otherwise tax exempt purpose.

Check your state tax return for a line item called something like, "Use tax on out-of-state purchases." This is where you report the "sales tax" that you owe on things you bought out-of-state and then brought into your state and used.

See here:

http://www.revenue.state.co.us/PDF/dr025299.pdf

I'm not saying this applies in your specific situation, Dr Dan, but it might behoove you to check it out. Same goes for everybody reading this thread that thinks they can get out of sales tax by buying from out-of-state.

Do not confuse this issue with the Moratorium on Internet Taxation. That is a whole different ball game.

[Budfred]

I think I said before that I would go with Win2KPro, but the other option to consider if you have a lot of old software and hardware is to do a dual boot with either WinXP or Win2KPro and Win98SE. This way you can run just about anything out there, including most DOS programs. If you get at least a 40gig hard drive, it wouldn't be difficult to make 2 partitions and install both OS.

Budfred

[Ed junior]

Who pays use taxes? I don't know about your state, but in California if they didn't know I had gone out of state -- they didn't know I'd spent any money -- by mail or i n person. Unless, of course, I told them. As long as I paid sales taxes, they left me pretty much alone.

DUAL BOOT. Okay, my idea of keeping my old 4-GIG HD isn't so bad, after all. Reading your "driver update" information, all of a sudden, I realized I've a HP ScanJet 3200C Scanner, an old 17" color monitor, the Epson Action Printer 5000 with long lastingh 24-pin head and longer lasting fabric ribbons...b/w, not color, of course.

So while I'd XP on the internet, I could 98 on what little I need the extra stuff for. Like tonight, making scans of my deceased wife to submit with the obituarys I'm sending to 12 newspapers. (She has out of town relatives.)

Then, using the ^X, ^C and ^V I can copy to a WordPad blank as necessary and work, in 98, on my old stuff.

All I need is a decent driver for the monitor -- which I feel confident XP would have -- ?

[Budfred]

The monitor driver should be pretty easy to come by, if it is standard VGA anyway. If it is EGA, you may have a problem.

I did install several Win95 programs on my sister's WinXP computer that I built for her and had no problems with them. XP does provide some ability to do that.

I think using your old hard drive for a Win98 install makes a lot of sense, but I would run the maker's diagnostic utilities on it before I got too comfortable with it. It may not be able to function much longer or it may go another 20 years.... it might be a good idea to find out how healthy it is.

Budfred

[Nooyawkah]

How long ago did your wife pass away?

[BigBlue66]

As far as use taxes go, it's basically an honor system. I'm an accountant by trade, so I have no excuse not to pay them.

Sure, you may be able to go years and years without paying use (sales) taxes on out-of-state purchases, but when the big I comes in to audit you, your checkbook, your credit card statements and your bank statements, you'll wish you had.

[Ed junior]

WIFE passed on Sonday 7:45 am Pacific. She opted to be cremated, I have her cremains at our Oregon property. If we keep the property she'll be buried here. Otherwise, she'll stay with me for a while.

COMPUTER. Hard Disk, 4GIG, was installed a year ago. The OEM 2Gig crashed. Looking forward, I'd use it for the software on it, unless I could reload that software in XP. Won't really know until I try!

DRIVERS. I have to presume superVGA, for the 17" -- thing is, if for some reason it fails, on XP, by purchsing locally I'll be able to pick up theright monitor (etc.)

SOFTWARE. Only critical is Lotus 1-2-3, I'm using verr. 5 for Windows. Other software on the Win98 HD includes a "video poker" game which is nice, but goes nowhere; and Kaodai Majong, which I downloaded. I can reload both in XP, I think.

Okay, guys, I've got my list together, now to get my face into some local stores and see what's popping. (Oh for a WIERD STUFF store like San Jose, where the techs knew their hardware and could spot me a decent upgrade!)

[Budfred]

Condolences for your loss. I hope you are ok.

For the Lotus 123, unless it is a really old version it should install ok. If it is a really old version, you can pick up a OEM of Lotus Millenium Suite really cheap at any number of computer shows and probably some stores and online. I use Lotus and picked up my copy for about $25 two or three years ago. Since it is even more obsolete now, it may even be cheaper. It should be compatible with your old files and I am pretty sure it would install on WinXP since I installed it briefly on my sister's.

Budfred

[Ed junior]

Costco has a 2Mha 60 Meg HD and other stuff, XP, even monitor and keyboard and mouse, $480. A similar outfit, a little less powerful, at Wal Mart, is $500 but it doesn't list the software that's preloaded.

Both are for complete outfits; and, after a lot of thought, I've decided to go for the slower unit at Wal Mart because they're closer. And because, well, a lot of reasons. Neither does any tech work, of course.

With these prices in mind, I can check with a couple of black box resellers on their lower priced units (by over $100) -- I may find a 2GHz CPU, 128Mb RAM, CD-RW, 10/100 network and 56k modem...of course I want a 3.5er on there, too -- and a good fan.

I deeply appreciate your good efforts in giving me a brevit lesson on today's computers. I'll be able to come back to your comments, before I spend my money.

Again, thanks to all of you.

ED

[Budfred]

Walmart has been selling computers without an OS or other software installed, so unless you are willing to pay out more you may want to check real carefully what it includes before you buy.

Also, the lack of tech support is not good, but you do have excellent resources here as long as the warranty doesn't keep you from doing your own troubleshooting. I would make sure they will back up the hardware with replacements without you having to contact the makers of each part.
If you can get some of the detailed specs before you buy, we may be able to tell you if you are buying headaches.

Budfred

[Nooyawkah]

I was just going to say that. There is no operating system in the PCs at Walmart. But you might consider this one:

http://www.gateway.com/home/prod/hm_dtp_300.shtml

Don't get confused by higher price when you try to customize it. It'a $449 ($549 less the $100 rebate they send you). If you want a monitor it's an extra hundred. The $225 they try to add in is for an LCD monitor, which you don't have to take. A floppy drive is an extra $5 and you're a proud owner. At least you'll get support.

[Ed junior]

Bud, I think WalMart got stung by advertising what their computers might do -- but could not right out of the box. I took a hard look and found that "software is included" -- the outside of the box clearly states you can do certain things such as get your email and do something with pictures. (Okay, I forget.)

However you're right in that they do NOT state the software that's included. I pity the WalMart clerk who refuses me entry into the box to find out WHAT is loaded! I'm NOT a quiet shopper, I can be quite nasty in fact! (In Silver Spring, Maryland, in one of their major multi-floored department stores, I found a book I wanted but no sales person to pay. I didn't even get a sales person when I said quite loudly, DOES ANYONE WANT MY MONEY? I put the book back and left.)(No, I dont remember the name; plus that was 1970, and they might have changed managers since then IF they're still inbusiness.)

Thank you for the Gateway note. Until I went shoping today, I didn't know what was being offered. Gateway has an outlet in Eugene, so I can check out their web site to preshop then Monday or Tuesday -- normally slow days -- I can go shopping in person. The rebate may not last past Jan 31, but I'll find out.

I've tried shopping on the internet. However, there does not seem to be a standard "small size model." I doubt I need more than 10GIG HDs, a floppy, and a CD/RW. (CostCo added a DVD on theirs.) Ram is nice, but is 128 enough? Or too much, we can get by on 64? And of course there's video ram; 36Kb? 64 KB?

And I thought PCGuide would have some simple PC specifications for different operations! Oh well, things can still happen!

Thanks again, one and all. (Guys and gals. Guys.)

[Budfred]

If you want to run WinXP, 128 RAM is a minimum. 256 will give you more assurance that it can handle it. For video RAM and the needs you have, you could get by with a pretty minimal settup. I would probably try to go with 16megs just to be sure you are covered, but even that may be more than you need. If you are doing 3d shoot-em-up games, you need BIG video RAM and speed... but you aren't so....

Gateway has a rep for decent service and quality, but their machines do tend to be rather proprietary, so changes in future could be limited.

It can be nice to have 2 optical drives (DVD and CDRW) so that you can record from one to the other if you wish.

Good luck,
Budfred

[Ed junior]

The WalMart unit is by HP, clock at 1.53, and is more expensive than the 2 gig setup at Costco. I'm going to continue my checking, thanks to your and others' contributions.

I wasn't sure about the 128 Meg RAM, and XP. Thank you for clearing up the 256 potential need. I am not a wild graphics man, don't pursue the latest in gaming, CAD CAM, design, etc. -- however I think the Costco unit allocates 64 Megs to video. WalMart's $498 HP allocates 16 meg.

Glad as I am that Intel has competition, so that pricing is more in line with reality, I'm NOT happy with AMDs nomenclature. A 1700+ chipsete with a speed of 1.53? That leaves a BAD taste in my mouth.

On the tower versus set, I checked a local source for a tower, $399 -- with a 1.53 Gig chpset, 16 meg ram, no OS. Buy an OEM XP for $130.

At WalMart, I can buy an upgrade for $81. As I can preload on a blank HD -- I can load 95, then upgrade to 98, THEN upgrade to XP. My printer driver is the same in 95 and 98. I was informed that if I do it the three layer way, I may find my Epson AP 5000 working tomorrow as hard as it did yesterday. (On the other hand, by being able to scavage my rinkydink 4 gig HD from the old set, with 98 on it, I can work in WordPad and print direct THAT WAY. )

All I need do is...make up my mind, I guess. You have been a big help, and I thank you heavily for that.

ED

[Budfred]

I'll give you a couple more thoughts:

You can get WinXP Home OEM online for about $100. I know you aren't into the online ordering, but you don't get support for OEM anyway, so it might not make a difference.

With AMD vs. Intel. The naming is irritating, but it also is somewhat accurate in that the 1700+ really does run about as fast as the 1.7Ghz Intel. Also, you will pay a lot more for Intel's more accurate labeling.

I think you can use WordPad in any version of Windoze, it has remained fairly constant.

I just started a thread about a deal I found on OEM WinME for $34 plus shipping. While you have to tweak ME to get it running well, this is an incredible price for a full version of Windoze. It is at Directron:

http://www.directron.com/millennium.html

And last, but not least: printers have gotten real cheap these days, so even if you do eventually need a new one, it won't bite too hard. The ink is the expensive stuff, but if you don't use a lot a cartridge can last a long time.

Budfred

[Nooyawkah]

Why upgrade twice every time you need to reinstall? Look at Newegg. XP Home OEM edition (the one I use) for $91.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=90&manufactory=1149&DEPA=0&sortby=14&order=1

[Ed junior]

You guys can really confuse a newbie!

Oh, Mistuh Neuwyawkuh, waddya mean about dat stuff? Okay, I do a bad job of writing Bronx. I'm not so bad in person, as I seem to handle different New York accents.

Now, if I can understand you. You think I'm upgrading twice, my way? Well, I"ve 95 and 98 on hand, from an old machine. I mean the diskset. So all I'm doing is buying an XP update, not a full (new) version.

Of course, now the XP picture gets cloudy...before we get into that, I took a look at the history of software (somewhat). It boils down to Microsoft turning off the WSin95 update machine, and it's changed the 98 update machine twice in the past four years. I don't know bout the others. I know that WalMart has some OS cheap, I forget what besides XP, but no 98. (I'd probably have bought a complete 98 set, if they'd had it. Wait until I get into the big city again!~!)

TO ALL. I've not satisfyed my curiousity bump. I plan on checking a couple of shopping centers, look at what Gateway has to offer, before I return to the internet. I've got three machines, a P60 laptop by Epson, a Compaq 7500 (tower) at P133, and an HP at P233. Each has a keyboard, printer, mouse, monitor -- all which can be given away to kids who don't have a thing. Not a problem.

Gateway may beat Costco's $479. If so, great! however, they're going to have to work hard to do it.

Note re Costco. The $45 signup fee is nothing considering my OTHER need, which is new glasses (two pair). I can get lenses at $42 each (bifocals) versus a couple of other vendors' prices for bifocal lenses. I have my own Navigator style fraames, which helps me. Costco optical gives me a better price break for haing my own frames, than the other sources do; that makes the difference. SO, the membership fee is not part of the computer purchase price. (Even so, I"m not shopping at Costco very often, not at my age! I have everything but the dancing redhead!)

Okay, loyal helpers, thank you very much. Please don't expect me back for a couple of days, please!

ED

[Budfred]

For when you get back:

Win98 almost never comes with computers anymore unless you go with a small local build. WinME is basically the same as Win98, but DOS is less available and you have to tweak to get it more stable. To buy Win98SE in full is about $100 and to get the upgrade from Win95 is pricey too, not as much. Since you already have 98, this may all be irrelevant, but maybe you can use it. Ok, I'll shut up for now....

[Nooyawkah]

Nooyawkah here, taping Budfred's mouth. How long can he be silenced?????
:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Budfred]

Probably not long enough...:D

I looked at the Walmart ad in the paper today and I think I saw the HP you are looking at. If so, a couple of warnings. If it is a choice between HP and Gateway, HP is probably less expandable and more proprietary. Also, the video in this machine seems to be onboard and uses 16Megs of SHARED memory. This means that it doesn't really have any dedicated memory. If you are never going to do graphics intensive tasks, like watching animation or movies on your computer, then it probably doesn't matter.

Ok, tape back on...;)

Budfred

[drdan]

Another thing that may not have been stated clearly is that it is almost always better to do a clean install than to upgrade. Going from 95 to 98 to XP is almost guaranteed to have some problems.

[Jhorner1]

I was looking at these computers at WalMart today. On the side of the boxes they list the software included. The one I looked at included Windows XP, and Works suite among others.

[Ed junior]

re WAL MART MACHINES. I think HP boxed east coast and west coast hardware in different boxes; no software is listed on the two different stores' MDSE that I could find.

re UPGRADES. Given a blank disk, I formatted, installed 95, then did an immediate upgrade to 98. THEN, I flew to ZoneAlarm for my free copy; Gator, ditto; then on to Microsoft, for the 98 updates including IE 6.

Sidebar YAHOO. With IE 6 on board, I got hung up at Yahoo for five minutes every time I went there. Microsoft says in effect that this happens when the URL software's trying for a third 'socket' and is only finding two. I switched to Mozilla, sailed right in to Yqhoo. Meanwhile Yahoo apparently got their act together; now IE ^ also sails in.

Tangent, GATEWAY vs. COSTCO vs. who knows? At present, Costco's computer "Seems" a good choice. Challenge: I want to add a 4-gig HD, and double the RAM to 264. I won't know, until I ask, if the Costco item can handle it easiliy. (Didn't ask when I was there before.) I'm sure Gateway can handle it.
HOWEVER, I have to add STAPLES to the mix, as they weighed in
(today's Sunday) with a Compaq for $519.96 including all hardware AND COLOR PRINTER. AMD XP processor 1800+ ...what's better though is the page cutline that says one can build one's own PC. I will be checking this out!

BOTTOM LINE. I'm cheap, however I'm slightly savvy enough to realize the better I plan, the better I'll be as this will most likely be my last machine. I expect the 3GHz and faster machines will be slower coming, as the market for that speed is smaller than the 2 GHz market and so forth.

Gang, you're all great. Thank you so very much!!!!!

:cool: :D

[hawk7771us]

This system boasts excellent speed at a budget price. The motherboard has an AGP socket.
Mid-tower Case, Antec 630-2 w/300 Watt Power Supply, Front Panel USB

Asus A7N266VM motherboard

On-board 10/100 LAN
On-board Sound
AMD XP1700
On-board Video, Sound

256mb PC2100 DDR RAM
30gb 7200rpm UDMA-133 Hard Drive (Maxtor)

52x Sony CD-ROM

3.5" Floppy Disk Drive

Windows XP Home Edition

Built and tested, O/S and all drivers loaded, one day burn-in

Note: System price does not include keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

$599 http://www.jncs.com/

[Nooyawkah]

These are all Walmarts with XP:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=86797&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A86796%3A86797

Here are bare bones with XP at Walmart that you can customize:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=96952&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A86796%3A86797%3A969 52

[Budfred]

Most companies these days have build your own options, I know Best Buy, CompUSA and Circuit City do. I have found that the price mounts up fast, but at least you know what you get. They still tend to have a lot of proprietary stuff, so changes may be limited. My HP is a build you own from Best Buy and I have maxed out customization on it, so I built another system myself with a lot more room for change.

You mentioned installing Gator; this is a program that is assciated with spyware and other nasties. If you don't already run Spybot or some other spyware scanner, you may want to do so.

The big advantage to Gateway over Costco is that they will provide service while Costco will refer you to their service provider. Gateway's service has been falling, but it is still one of the best in the business. Again, make sure they allow you to open the box without voiding the warranty.

For upgrading from Win95 to Win98, no real problem. For upgrading from Win98 to WinXP, likely headaches abound.

[Ed junior]

Please don't be upset with me. I gave Gateway a chance, but NOWAY! They wanted $800 plus for the system Staples has about $700. The name is changed, that's about it.

Instead, I went the cheap partial build route; a tower, 1.6+Ghz, 20-GIG HD, CD RW, Floppy, network, 300W power supply, 256k Ram ... XP home...they'll swap in my 4GIG HD (the 133's almost toast as we speak!) -- $580. I did a lot of shopping, revisited Costco but decided against that unit because there's no service AND the "emachine" parts are in many instances ONLY available from emachine (such as power supply) ... WalMart didn't stand a chance as their HP package is NOT well marked, on the west coast (two stores). I don't mind the extra time spent in pinning down the machine; the local business has been here, and will be here --

I know XP has a driver for EPSON AP5000 printer. Didn't know, and won't until tomorrow, about a scanner driver for the HP 3200C "ScanJet" scanner. I can most probably find one on the web at the HP site.

i CHOSE LOCAL BECAUSE I can get service fairly easily; the store is about 45 - 50 minutes away, three blocks off the freeway! I should be able to cable and go. I pickup the unit tomorrow, save $45 shipping.

Staples and Gateway would build what I want, but they charge me for the box. Gateway, $800 plus $45 freight! -- I compfort my local purchase with the thoguht that more of my money stays "in town" than if I went to Staples or Gateway. Or WalMart, for that matter.

I thought about the web, quite hard -- the lack of true local service or representation isn't all that comforting.

HD ITEMS. I will use the old 4-gig drive for a while, until I transfer over the cookies, MY DOCUMENT files and a few programs I downloaded. If necessary, I can go back and redownload -- but it IS a pain in the butt, to sit here and wait for the copper pair to twitch the load down at 26,400 bps.

Thanks, guys. I made sure the fan is robust, and it is. It's AMD powered, but with a great fan and heat sink.

Considering that the most I do is a few internet pages, and some text ahd simple numbers, a check book and such, now I'll feel up todate and can consider a few of the more recent games that require more RAM and a faster clock speed. We'll see!

Okay, I've started to close three times now; perhaps I'll make it real, this time, with my appreciation to you all.

[Budfred]

Sounds great and well suited for your needs. A local store means you get off the shelf parts and can upgrade when you want, if you want. The hard drive and using yours with it sounds good.

Have fun!!