How much to charge for computer work?

[Autoeng]

Don't know where to really place this thread but here will do, I suppose.

I dabble in computers and often get calls for friends, associates and referals needing help with computer problems. Everything from upgrades, virus removal to fried components. I like to do the work and it keeps me abreast of current technology but I don't work for free as it does take away from my down time when I could be doing other things.

I am having a difficult time figuring out how much to charge people for my services. For instance, a lady recently called me who had a virus that really screwed her system up. After an evaluation I suggested a format and reinstall for the fee of $100.00, a nice round figure based on $10.00 evaluation and 3 hours labor at $30.00 per. Remember I am not in business to do this and the people I deal with typically don't like open ended costs. Went to work and after numerous driver issues and trips back to there house for disks that I didn't know I would need and that they didn't know that they had it took me 6 hours. I really couldn't justify charging $200 now as that's a third of a new PC so I kicked myself and got on with my life. After all none of my money lost just my time.

If anyone else does this type of "help" for individuals and would like to comment on how they handle the money issues I would appreciate it. For that matter any professional opinions would be appreciated as well.

Thanks,
Autoeng

[classicsoftware]

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

It also depends on where you live.

It is also better to have them bring the PC to you. You have everything you need

Do you charge travel time??


My standard rate is $100.00 per hour with a minimum of 1 hour for on-site service. I do not charge travel time. Once you make a deal, you have to honor it. I do not like to give flate rate or per-job prices since you run into the problem you did. Why should you waste your time becuase your client does not have the proper documentation for their own system.

That being said there are friends who get 50% discount. There are really close friends who don't get charged at all...

It just depends....

[Budfred]

I don't charge at all because that makes me responsible for the person's computer. I do work mostly for friends and I enjoy doing it so it is worthwhile for me. I sold a basic system to one person for the cost of parts and now I feel obligated to fix anything that comes up with it, so it gets tricky.

If I were going to start charging as a small business, I would check out what other tech services in the area charge and probably undercut it slightly. I would also look at insurance to make sure I was covered if there was a problem and consider a release form letting people know what I will and won't take responsibility for....

[Autoeng]

I'm not starting a business but I've found that if you don't charge (for friends I don't) then people start calling you all of the time. I don't mind helping out but once we get into a job that take more than an hour I want compensation.

Thanks for your input,
Autoeng

[Budfred]

If you are charging, you have a small business. I'm just urging caution to avoid problems with irate customers. Check out this thread for an extensive discussion of the topic:

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17730

[Autoeng]

I wouldn't consider the 4 computers that I worked on last YEAR as constituting a business. I'm upfront with everyone that I am just doing this to help them out. Most offer money up front but to establish some consistancy is what I am after. For instance, a friend of a friend will call me and say that their computer won't work at all. I check it out and it's a fried mobo. They always pay for the parts but I never know how long it's going to take to do the work. Every time I've done it I've had different issues. If it's a Dell then I'll need to get a case and transfer all components to the new box just to put in a new mobo but on others (Gateway for example) I haven't done one of those so I don't know when I start if I'll have to do the same or not but I need to give the person a price. Hard drive replacements are harder because of driver issues. Man, some of them can be difficult to locate and then one interferes with another and has to be loaded in a particular order.

My moral delimma is if I don't let the person know upfront how much the cost is going to be then they don't have the option of saying "forget it" I'll buy a new one. It's now worth it to invest 6 hours labor cost at $30/hr (what I typically charge) into a 333mhz when you can buy a 2ghz for $500. But then again when I start out on a job that should take 2 hours but takes 6 what do I do?

Autoeng

[Steve]

I'd say that if you are just doing this to help out and make pocket money, $30/hr is plenty.

If the reason the time goes over is inexperience on your part, then you eat it. Every time you misjudge a project, you gain more experience in estimating a price. That kind of experience is worth plenty. If the reason the time ran long is an obvious error on the part of the customer, than sure, talk to them about alittle more money.

[Autoeng]

Steve,

Thanks for the response. You are exactly right in that I'm doing it as a favor to people and for a little pocket money. But I don't think that it's inexperience all of the time. For instance I recently formatted and reloaded my brothers pc (for free, I'm not that much of a jerk) so that he could sell it. Went from XP to Win98. I figured about 4 hours. This was a Dell PC and I had all of the support disks but it took 7 hours because the reference disk included all drivers for every config of that series computer so I had to disassemble to get part numbers from cards, cross-reference from supplier to Dell then found out that after installing some drivers that they interfered with others so had to remove and install in different order. What I have found is that computers and components vary so much that I can never accurately predict how long it will take to do a job. On this one if I charged $120 I would have thought that fair as he was selling it for $250 but if I had to charge $230 I would have told him to just throw it in the basement and forget about selling it as it wasn't worth the expense.

Anyone's thoughts on this?


Would anyone care to post their standard times for the following jobs?

Format and reload software and personal files (bad housekeeping, kids screwed it up or virus caused)

Replace harddrive (not corrupt) format and reload software and personal files

Replace corrupt harddrive, try to save personal files, format and reload software and personal files

New mobo (fried existing one)

New mobo and processor (upgrade)

Add CD-RW

Add video card (upgrade)

Add sound card (upgrade)

Build complete system with onboard sound and video

Build complete system with offboard sound and video

Thanks for any assistance you can give,
Autoeng

[ErnieK]

Autoeng
With friends computers I look at/fix/repair/update I do not charge.

Reason being that once a charge is made there must be a gaurentee of some sort that the comp in now working correctly. As you know all it takes is 10 minutes for someone to totally mess up. So, for me no charge.

I do charge pertol costs to and from thier house, and for any new parts installed. I also tell people that there is no time limit. I will do at my leasure. They usually accept this.

Also when I have their computer I check for updated files etc and keep a copy of all relevant details and files in a folder on CD-RW disk. I also keep copy of sytem statistics (using Aida)

After I have the computer up and running again I make two (2) ghost images. One for them (which they normally promptly loose) and one for me for the future.

This way when the computer goes wrong again the first thing I do is re-insert ghost image (if possible and if all hardware seems to be OK and cables connected correctly) at their house, if this does not work I bring home. All I need then is any new software/hardware disks installed since repair. But as my circle is only about 6-7 people this works for me.

And besides I enjoy working with computers, and by working on others I have learned and can usually (with help from here) fix my own.

[Autoeng]

ErnieK:

I agree. I don't charge friends either. But friends tell their friends that I'm good with fixing computers and I get a call so those I charge.

I would really appreciate anyone willing to put down time estimates for the jobs I listed previously.

Autoeng

[classicsoftware]

I charge by the hour only.

Here is why:

TIME IS MONEY

1) Format and reload software and personal files (bad housekeeping, kids
screwed it up or virus caused)

2) Replace harddrive (not corrupt) format and reload software and personal files.

The problem here is: how much data is involved. Are you talking about 100 mb of word files or 6 GB of MP3's I had to re-install. How can you give a flat rate for this? Where does this take place? If they bring it in to me and I can be doing other things while the file trasnfer takes place it's one thing. If I have to sit at the client's site and do this, that's another price....

3) Replace corrupt harddrive, try to save personal files, format and reload software and personal files.

It depends on how much data is involved. Do you have to fix the data once you recover the files? Can you get them off easily or do you have to use software that can cost a couple of hunred bucks????


4) New mobo (fried existing one)

5) New mobo and processor (upgrade)

I don'y usually do these becuase unless the machine is new, why bother?? It's ok for a do-it-yourselfer, but for someone to pay for it....

6) Add CD-RW if all goes well 1/2 hour

7) Add video card (upgrade) if all goes well 1/2 hour

8) Add sound card (upgrade) if all goes well 1/2 hour but what if the sound card wants IRQ 5 and that is already used and you have to play musical IRQ's.

9) Build complete system with onboard sound and video

10)Build complete system with offboard sound and video

I don't do 9&10 so I'll leave it to others.

The message I'm trying to get accross to you is, it all depends on what happens when you get under the hood.

When plumbers,electricians and other service personell (sp?) start giving me flat rate quotes, I'll start. In the mean time it's only done one way $$$/hour.

I try to be fair. I don't charge for travel and I don't charge if I'm learning on their time. Don't be afraid to charge what you are worth. There are guys around who charge less than me, but whould you rather pay $50.00/hr for 3 hrs or $100.00/hr for 1 hour???? It is the bottom line that counts. If you are good at what you do, you won't have any trouble getting & keeping clients.

As to the warranty comments. I have a question. If your car breaks down and you take it into the shop and get a new starter and then 2 days later the alternator or battery goes, would you expect there would be some discount or warranty. The answer is NO!!!!!. If you replace the sound card or video card on an older machine and three days later the power supply goes. Well that's tough. It's an older machine.....

On the other hand if you break something, you are responsible for fixing it. I had a job where I drove 1 hour to pick a machine that needed a memory upgrade,, a tape drive and re-format of hard disk and re-install OS. Well I did not secure the system well enough in the truck and the machine bounced around and the mobo was fried from the shock.. Guess who replaced it at no charge, ,me, couse it was my fault....

So there you have it in less than a nutshell....

[yawningdog]

First of all, I don't worry about angry customers, and I think doing so is ill-advised, because it's unavoidable. You're going to have them. Period. Mind you, in my case, they're extremely rare, but I'll give one example.

A guy wanted to build a web server and I sold him the hardware, and he built the machine himself. It turned out that he didn't have the bandwidth to get it running properly, and the T1 line was out of his price range. Then he wanted to return the $1100 machine and get his money back. I told him that I could give him credit (because that's what the wholesaler would give me), but I couldn't afford to buy back the machine from him since it was custom built and odds that I could sell it to someone else were slim. He was mad, but it's not my fault he didn't do his research, and he knew full well I cannot give cash refunds.

I always require a customer to sign a disclaimer, saying that they have backed up everything before I touch it. You fix a machine, and a month later it crashes and the customer tries to blame you thinking you must have screwed it up.

I do house/business calls only, because I work out of my home. I charge $150 for a trouble call, no charge for repairs outside my capacity. I get $100 labor for motherboard and hard drive upgrades, all other upgrades are $50. A thorough cleaning is $65, and a bargain at that price. Custom built systems are hardware plus $100. Labor intensive work, (routing cat5 and building networks) is $75 per hour. I undercut every shop in town.

My family and church get labor free and hardware at cost. My friends get labor about half off and normal markup for hardware. I try to avoid working for friends because it just feels awkward.

[Budfred]

I just spent about 6 hours helping a friend set up a network. Actually setting up the router and configuring it took about 30 minutes, but getting his current computer ready to network with his new laptop took hours because he had done no file maintenance since he bought it, his antivirus had expired 2 or 3 years ago, he had no spyware scanning, he had no firewall, and he had all sorts of background garbage running. If I were charging him (he paid for dinner) and had given him a price for doing the network, I would have felt really ripped off or I would have left him with an unstable system. Basically, if I were charging, I would want to go with an hourly rate....

[Autoeng]

Thanks to everyone for their input but I still need to compare how much time I think a job takes with what others think it takes. When a person calls you and asks you to do some work you need to have an idea of how long it will take (so you can give an estimate of charges) because I find in some cases it is better to scrap the current system and buy another.

Here's what I think..

Would anyone care to post their standard times for the following jobs?

Format and reload software and personal files (bad housekeeping, kids screwed it up or virus caused) 3-6 hours

Replace harddrive (not corrupt) format and reload software and personal files 4-8 hours

Replace corrupt harddrive, try to save personal files, format and reload software and personal files 5-10 hours

New mobo (fried existing one) 1-2 hours

New mobo and processor (upgrade) 2-3 hours

Add CD-RW 1½ hour

Add video card (upgrade) 1½ hour

Add sound card (upgrade) 1½ hour

Build complete system with onboard sound and video 6-7 hours

Build complete system with offboard sound and video 7-8 hours

Would anyone care to comment if they think my time estimates are off?

Thanks,
Autoeng

[Budfred]

Most of the times you post look reasonable, but the CDRW, sound card and video card are only about 30 minutes if it goes smoothly. Assuming that all the drivers are handy, I can usually install a CDRW in about 15 minutes actually, but I would specify some additional time to make sure it is working properly. The video and sound card can be trickier, but I have had some go in without a fuss....

[bassman]

I will agree with Budfred here in that most of your times seem a bit long. This is most likely due to inexperience. By no means am I suggesting you don't know what you are doing technically, but repetition will cetainly bring your times down. As some have mentioned, knowledge is invaluable, so on those occasions when you average $3.00 hr. instead of $30.00, make notes in a log what you did and refer back to that on your next estimate.
I think the one thing that is clear form all who responded and I will agree 100%, there is no set-in-stone circumstance when working on computers. If you want to see where you should be pricing yourself, go to the local Comp USA. They have a giant billboard on the wall over the tech area that has set pricing for many differnt proceedures.
Another tip, although some have suggested that if you do not charge, you are free from liability. NOT TRUE. The first time you lean on this crutch, you will own a burnt machine. If you remember that, you will always be as careful as you can be.
Here is a breif list of suggestions:
1)Keep a time log. Fill it out in detail and start with past jobs you can remember clearly.
2)Read your time log.
3)Read your time log.
4)Read your time log.
5)Use a disclaimer. Read other peoples disclaimers for some guidance (e-mail me if you would like to view mine).
6)Use a pricing sheet. Be sure to discribe in detail what you will do for that price and what you will not do for that price. Do not be tricky in your descriptions but leave some openings to other descriptions. By doing this, you not only define to your customer, you also define to your self ;)
7)Be sure you understand AND follow your own pricing sheet. If you are clear here, you and your customer should not feel cheated.
8)Make a checklist (parts, software, manules,...) and use it. There is nothing embarrassing about paying attention to details. Your customer will appriciate it.
Did I mention "Read your time log??";)

Hope this helps

[cnm]

Don't forget to tell IRS about income, unless you get it in cash.

[classicsoftware]

What's cash???

[Autoeng]

Thanks to everyone who offered their opinions.

Autoeng