Hangup Problem

[notmydayjob]

I purchased a socket 370 MB from ebay that works sometimes but hangs up frequently before it loads the operating system. It appears to check the DMI and then stops. It is an On Speed u-631 or 631-u SIS 620 baby AT. I haven't been able to find anything on the net about it. The manual is next to useless at least to me. I'm about ready to pitch it but hate to lose money or admit defeat. I have cleared cmos, and check jumpers. It appears that the 400 celeron that is in it was jumped wrong (I don't know why it worked at all). I corrected the jumpers but still no luck. In between boot hangs it has worked well enough for me to load up to ME and Office2000. When not hanging everything seems fine. Any help would be appreciated.
Fred.

[ranchdog]

Welcome Fred Defeat? Never. Frustration? Yes. Windoz ME = Frustration. Recommend you check out the jumper system on your Mboard very carefully. If you don't presently have much for manual support you may have to experiment a little. From there give your RAM sticks the third degree. Memory problems cause a ton of grief. Can you check the Mboard for an FCC Code # and post back what it is. Should be on a small FCC decal. It is possible to trace the MFG with this or the BIOS string # (which is in the lower left hand corner of your initial boot-up screen). If you are dealing with a BIOS that is outdated by quiet a while ME is not going to be happy. Hang Tough and the good folks here will help you find some joy.

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......Indecision may or may not be my problem......

[This message has been edited by ranchdog (edited 07-29-2001).]

[nimnorf2]

Dittoe what Ranchdog said. "We never give up on this forum." Actually the really smart guys will usually figure it out. I'm usually just a cheerleader. They're all gonna tell you that windows 3.1 is better than ME. btw, have you taken all but the bare necessity cards out of their respective slots? This may be obvious to you, but if not.....everything out except your video card then go to bios and cmos. Right?
Patience bubba, the calvary is coming! Ye ha!

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A man persuaded against his will, is of the old opinion still.

[notmydayjob]

Thanks for your responses. I checked at wim's and it says mfg is warp speed ink. The ram is PC133 128Mb SDRAM 7.5ns and is new. There was a 64mb on the board which wasn't working when I got it. Today I fired it up and it loaded like a charm. So far once it is up and running no problems until I shut down or restart or a program loading process has to restart. It occurred to me today that it seems to be more likely to hang after running a while. Once it hangs again I will try taking everything out and see if it boots. This board has sound, modem, and usb addons as well as a plug in video cable that came with it. I tried to use a separate video card but got only a blank screen and there doesn't seem to be any way to disable built in video in bios. Any ideas on that?

Hey now that I've made a connection with you folk I'm full of questions. I've been struggling away by myself for a couple of years using trial and error. With all the hours of fun I've had I'm still trying to figure out why I do this to myself.

Thanks again,
Fred

[notmydayjob]

Some additional information.

I replaced the PC133 128 MB ram with PC100 64 MB ram. No changes.

I did however note that it definitely fails to boot after it has been running for 5 minutes or so. It will hang if I restart or shut down. If I shut it down for 30 minutes or so it boots fine again.

Q-what is this dmi data pool check thing it does? It seems to hang up around this point.

[This message has been edited by notmydayjob (edited 07-29-2001).]

[danleff]

Hi;


Do you have a good power supply/fan/heatsink? Could be an overheating problem. Are you sure the jumpers are set correctly for the fsb and multiplier and cpu type?

Try the pc troubleshooter here at;
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/



[This message has been edited by danleff (edited 07-30-2001).]

[notmydayjob]

The power supply could be an issue but seems fine with other boards I've tried (QDI IB Titanium with AMD 200), it is a 200w, at the moment I have no way to check and it's the only AT I have. Fan and heat sink are new. I have an orb but won't fit in case I have. I did begin to wonder about overheating but wondered if it might be something else besides cpu although I don't have a clue what. Thanks for taking time to answer my post.
Fred

[kayofcircles]

There's a good troubleshooter Here (http://www.aumha.org/a/shutdown.htm)regarding Shutdown and start up problems. My husband went though three quarters of it before getting a puter fixed not too long back. Yours seems more a heat problem, but please keep us informed on progress because my husband is having a regular hangup problem with ME on his work puter. When you say "a program loading process has to restart"..what do you mean?

[This message has been edited by kayofcircles (edited 07-30-2001).]

[notmydayjob]

Thanks kayofcircles. I will check the site. I installed 98 first and it hung up then too so I don't think it's ME.

When I said "a program loading process has to restart" I meant when you load a program and it restarts as a part of the installation process.

Will post any progress I have. I am bidding on a couple other 370 AT boards right now and as I'm putting this system together for someone else if I don't figure it out before I get a new board it will likely get shelved at least for awhile (although I won't be giving up just yet)so I can upgrade my own system.

Thanks again for your post,
Fred

[ranchdog]

Fred --- Please check the core voltage setting for the Celeron. Something tells me it must be incorrect. With a flip-chip CPU be sure and use a quality Thermal grease between the CPU and heatsink. Don't overdo however. And of course making sure the heatsink is making good contact. Hang Tough Big Fellow. We have yet begun to fight. The 400 Celeron uses a 66MHz Bus Speed -- 6x Multiplier -- 2.0 Core Voltage.

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......Indecision may or may not be my problem......

[This message has been edited by ranchdog (edited 07-31-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ranchdog (edited 07-31-2001).]

[notmydayjob]

Thanks for the advice Ranchdog. I did check and found that, according to the manual, it was set wrong when the board was sent to me. I changed it when I realised this but I, and who ever used the board before me, did run it with improper settings. Maybe the improper setting did something to the chip. I have a BP6 with a 466 in it. Maybe I should try the 400 and see if the chip is damaged.
Fred

[notmydayjob]

Thanks for the advice Ranchdog. I discovered that the board was set wrong after I received it and fired it up. It was listed as a working pull and had the chip in it so I didn't think to check. Do you suppose running it configured wrong has damaged the chip? According to the manual I now have it set for the values you gave me but the problem remains.
Fred

[Paleo Pete]

DMI pool data is a database of configuration info about the hardware installed in the machine. Tells windows what hardware is there and what drivers to use for it.

If you can't disable the onboard video in BIOS check and see if you can find out if it can be disabled by a jumper on the motherboard. A manual would help there.

Did you put a hard drive with windows already loaded on this motherboard? That would explain a lot of the problems you're having, windows is having a hard time figuring whether to use old motherboard related drivers or new ones. Always do a fresh install when swapping motherboards, or building a machine witha new motherboard and old hard drive to avoid problems of this type.

Open the case and run the computer with a small fan blowing into it, see if it helps, if so you have a heat problem. Also, is the power supply capable of keeping up with the hardware? An old power supply, or wattage too low will cause hangups.

I think heat, power supply and memory are the main things to check, those are the most common cause of hangups.

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YOU! Out of the gene pool!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[ranchdog]

Fred - You stated that your PC seems to hang after it runs awhile. Now we need to go after the CPU and/or CPU heat problem. Little things mean a lot here. Example = The base of the heatsink will have a landing on it which allows the heatsink to sit flat upon the ZIF socket and processor. If the heatsink is mounted 180 degrees out, huge heat problem. Also, try running for awhile in safe mode and see what you get. (with CMOS settings at default) Let us know how you are doing.

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......Indecision may or may not be my problem......

[notmydayjob]

I must say the support I have been getting is really something. When I think that for the last 2-3 years I've been walking it alone I can only say wish I'd known about this site sooner. It has given me a renewed determination to solve the problem (with help of course) and other future problems I'm sure to encounter. I may even find a few opportunities to give some back. I will certainly be looking for them. My day job has been taking much of my time of late (10-12 hour days) so if I seem slow on the uptake it's not because I don't appreciate the support. As soon as I can try all of the advice I've been given will report back.
Thanks, Fred

[notmydayjob]

Finally back at it. The harddrive was new when I put the system together with no OS. The power supply is 200 watt and relatively new. I have tried running it barebones still hangs after running for 20 minutes or so and then after being off for 15 minutes will boot like nothing is wrong. I took the 400 celeron out and have been running it all day in my BP6 board with no problems so I guess that answers the question about whether there is a problem with the CPU and fan. As for the video I have found a jumper labelled jp1 that isn't in the book so once I get this other little problem solved I will try a video card in it again. At this point I seem to be back to this board being bad. The only thing I haven't tried is unplugging all the little things like case speaker, hd led, etc. I also tried another hdrive with no luck. Any ideas out there?

[danleff]

Hi;

You have received a lot of good advice on this board, but let me share my experience with my AT board.

Have a Cyrix MII 300 processor on my at board. Same problem. Boots when "cold, then when rebooting, it would not boot-up. Finally figured out that I did not use my own advice, checked the mobo. I had mounted the board with 2 metal screws to keep the board secure. Remounted the board with plastic stand-offs and insulated washers on BOTH sides of the mobo where I used screws - booted every time.

Then, I attempted to add a known working ISA sound card, no boot. Took it out, booted every time. I was using a 230 watt AT power supply.

I wonder if your problem might be related to how the board is mounted - check for possible shorts. A 200 watt power supply, even for this machine, may not be working properly/consistently all the time.

All the above suggestions are great! Through all this make sure that you do have a small amount, evenly spread, thermal compond on the heatsink. Also recheck to make sure that all components are seated well. Sometimes, a video card just a touch mis-seated can mess things up. I had one that did not quite seat properly and would raise up on one end just a little...

I'm waiting for a conversion cable for an 300 watt ATX power supply that I have to see what happens.

[This message has been edited by danleff (edited 08-05-2001).]

[ranchdog]

Fred you are now getting down to where the rubber meets the road. The CPU and HS/F have proven themselves. Now it's on to the power supply. However you said that you didn't have a spare AT style so that the 200W could be swapped out. Is it possible you have access to a volt meter? I would be curious as to the voltage from the PSU after the PSU gets put to work and things want to hang. Then you have a cooling-off period and more or less back to normal. This means checking while the PSU is in the on mode, so easy does it. Yellow leads are 12V and red leads are 5V. There can be a small variation but a couple volts variation and the PSU is the culprit. Also, depending on the pin you are checking you can get a minus reading. But still using the 5 or 12 figures. As -5 or -12. Hang in There. Luck.

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......Indecision may or may not be my problem......
...... Kickin' A Rock....

[notmydayjob]

Thanks danleff. Will check mounting suggestion out, I hadn't considered it. This conversion cable is new to me. Didn't know such a creature existed. Where does one find one?
Good luck with the 300w ATX.

Ranchdog, I am a tad embarrassed to admit I discovered the mbd has an alternate atx power connector on it. How I missed it I don't know but when I was hunting around for jumpers that may disable the built in video, lo and behold, there it was.

I don't have a volt meter but I'm going to get one. I'd like to learn how to use one beyond checking to see if there's a current or not. Plenty of time for that though, I'm sure, as I go along this happy road of adventure and discovery in the land of technophilia. Thanks.

[notmydayjob]

I just discovered what jp1 is for. It switches between the AT and ATX power connectors. There are three pins. 1-2 shorted is for atx and 2-3 is for at. If the numbering is orientated to start at the top of the board it is set for atx power. Would this make a difference or does the fact that it even powers up indicate that it is jumped properly?

[notmydayjob]

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Victory is sweet!!!

To:
Ranchdog
nimnorf2
danleff
kayofcircles
Paleo Pete

Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you!

The problem was the power supply. Once I discovered that the mbd had optional atx connector and used one of my new atx cases the problem vanished. I have stressed it running video for 1/2 hour, shut it off and restarted it repeatedly and it boots perfectly everytime.

The amazing thing about this troubleshooting is although the problem may be one thing the process of analysis yields so much more insight into the number of things that could be wrong. I have learned a bunch of good stuff that will serve me well in future adventures.

One final question. How do I get power LED to light when there is no place to plug into board?

[ranchdog]

Cowboy we're proud of ya. And your determination is commendable! It's difficult to work 10-12 hr. days and try to sort thru a PC headache with the time remaining. Gold Star for you. Should be able to wire a power LED to the "cold" side of the power switch itself. Power on the LED is on. Don't be Bashful. Stop by the forums when time permits. Have an awesome evening. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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......Indecision may or may not be my problem......
...... Kickin' A Rock....

[danleff]

Hi;

Hey, thank you! I had not considered that there might be a jumper for the at/atx switch! My mobo would not work with the atx power supply. I thought that I was missing something when it would not power up with an atx power supply. Thought that the atx had some sort of safety feature, given the at power button not being used. I'll have to check this out. See, we all learn something! Reading the directions....