Boot Problem

[jonsax]

Believe it or not, I'm a MAC guy trying to help a neighbor with a PC boot problem. Neighbor is both poor and functionally illiterate. I have helped him solve some minor problems over the last year, but not sure what to do with this one. SYstem starts to boot and goes through a page or so of quickly listing what looks like system or configuration info. Then shows colorful, full screen WIndows 98 icon. Then the error messages start. They are "missing or corrupted HIMEN. sys, DBLBUFF.sys and IFSHLP. Also error in config.sys file on line 1 and on EMM386.exe, line 2. I've been learning along the way and looked through PC Guide, but couldn't locate these error messages. Is this something I can help him with or does he have to take this in to a techician? Prob is he bought his system mail order, so is likely, I assume, to be expensive to take it in to CompUSA, or some such place. I'm willing to go the extra mile to help him, if I can get some guidance. Thanks much to anyone who can help.

Jon.

[bassvax]

Welcome to the PC Guide Discussion Forums jonsax http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

How nice of you to extend your services to your neighbor http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Also, welcome to the dark side (pc's) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

If you could post back with some system information it would help. Operating System/CPU/RAM/Make & Model etc.

I'm gonna take a stab at this one by saying I gather it is a Windows 95 system...if so, the short amount of research I've been seeing is that this is a common problem with Win 95.

Let's try an easy one first:

A-Use a boot disk to boot the computer.

To create a boot disk go to Start/Settings/Control Panel/Add/Remove Programs...select the Start Up Disk tab...insert a known, good floppy diskette and then click Create Disk...you (your neighbor) may have to do this from another computer...A Win 95 or 98 computer will work fine.

B-Choose to start Without CD-ROM Support

C-Type c:

D-Then type fdisk /mbr (make sure the space is there before the /) then hit enter

It is very important to slowly partake of this action so that you do not enter the fdisk program and alter or delete the partition

E-Remove the floppy and restart the computer

Try this first, then get back with us...you may have to extract and reinstall the missing/corrupted files or reinstall Windows into another folder or reinstall Windows over itself or reformat and reinstall Windows completely.

------------------
Flush 'N' Forget
FE Stokes WWTP (http://www2.apex.net/users/hwuswtp)

[This message has been edited by bassvax (edited 08-06-2001).]

[jonsax]

Thanks very much for replying and for being willing to help. The system is Windows 98 with a pentium III. The computer was mail-ordered from some Florida company and he doesn't seem to have any documentation. Not even a name on the tower, except a model number: F-74. He also doesn't remember how much RAM he has, though I believe it's at least 128 megs. He has no floppy boot disk, but my wife has a Dell laptop running windows 98. Can I assume I can make a boot floppy from her system?

Originally posted by bassvax:
Welcome to the PC Guide Discussion Forums jonsax http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

How nice of you to extend your services to your neighbor http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Also, welcome to the dark side (pc's) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

If you could post back with some system information it would help. Operating System/CPU/RAM/Make & Model etc.

I'm gonna take a stab at this one by saying I gather it is a Windows 95 system...if so, the short amount of research I've been seeing is that this is a common problem with Win 95.

Let's try an easy one first:

A-Use a boot disk to boot the computer.

To create a boot disk go to Start/Settings/Control Panel/Add/Remove Programs...select the Start Up Disk tab...insert a known, good floppy diskette and then click Create Disk...you (your neighbor) may have to do this from another computer...A Win 95 or 98 computer will work fine.

B-Choose to start Without CD-ROM Support

C-Type c:

D-Then type fdisk /mbr (make sure the space is there before the /) then hit enter

It is very important to slowly partake of this action so that you do not enter the fdisk program and alter or delete the partition

E-Remove the floppy and restart the computer

Try this first, then get back with us...you may have to extract and reinstall the missing/corrupted files or reinstall Windows into another folder or reinstall Windows over itself or reformat and reinstall Windows completely.

[mjc]

Ok, boot to the bootdisk and type at the a:> c:\ then type dir /w /p, and look like for a file named config.sys and/or config.bak, or config.old, or something that indicates a possible backup of the config.sys file. If you do find the backup copies you can simply rename one of them to config.sys. (Simply type ren config.bak config.sys at the c: promt...it should ask you if you want to overwrite the exixting file say yes..if it doesn't, just type del config.sys at the prompt and then rename it). Also if it is Windows 98 you can actually discard both config.sys and autoexec.bat...and use the DOS edit program (from the c: prompt) to create new ones (just open a blank document) and then save it by those names...don't put anything them just create blank files.

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

Gun Control...hitting what you aim at!

[ziba-june]

Get your win98 boot disk and boot from it with CD-ROM enables. Config file in Win98 is a text file and you can see the content and you can find the location of all the mentioned files. Search your hard drive to see if you can find those files and then use "extract" command to extract a good copy from your Win98 CD.

extract /a path base4.cab himem.sys
where path is where Base4.cab is located on Win98 CD. (If he bought it from mail order, there might be a directory called "options" where all Cab files are saved.)

[bassvax]

Yes you can make a boot disk from your wife's laptop http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

The other suggestions are good ones to try also...keep us posted (pun intended) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Flush 'N' Forget
FE Stokes WWTP (http://www2.apex.net/users/hwuswtp)

[jonsax]

I used my wife's flopy and have been able to boot from that. I tried your suggestion of typing c:fdisk /mbr (with a space before the / ) and then hit enter. Nothing seemded to happen. I tried to restart without the floppy and had the original problem. Question: did I need to wait until the "prompt" was at the c drive?

I then tried other suggestions, so it would be helpfuil if you read my responses to them.

Thanks.

Originally posted by bassvax:
Yes you can make a boot disk from your wife's laptop http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

The other suggestions are good ones to try also...keep us posted (pun intended) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[jonsax]

[I have doen what you said and have gotten to the directory. I found config.sys andautoexec.bat, among many others. I also found the following [newfo"x], where there are 68 x's numbered 1-68. My friend tells me that right before his problems he was working with a camera or something and suddenly there were dozens of folders being created on his desktop and he didn't know what to do.

Anyhow, Now that I have gotten into the directory, I am back at a c prompt and don't know how to do what you suggested next, which was to discard both config.sys and autoexec.bat and then use the DOS edit program to create new ones. Can you walk me through that?

[lysdexia]

Try booting from disk again, and type sys c: from the a: prompt. It should say "system transferred".

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ya think?

[mjc]

At the c: prompt type edit...that will bring up the DOS editor...then unless you have mouse support, you'll need to use the keyboard, the alt key will get you in to the file menu the arrow keys will allow you to scroll through it, scroll down to Open...and then hit enter...it should bring up a list of the files to open...scroll down to config.sys and then open it see what it says....especially what the first line is....type rem and a space in front of what is there, save it and reboot...or post back with what the line is...

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

Gun Control...hitting what you aim at!

[Randy_tx]

Just an IDEA........before trying complicated measures...try this:
When the system FIRST starts up......hold down the F8 key.......you will see a screen with a list of options.........choose to boot the computer in "Safe Mode". If it will do that, then we can more easily help you from there.

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Will XP save Me ?

[jonsax]

Thanks. Tried that early on. Didn't work. Going to ttry my hand at the editing suggested above . . .

Originally posted by Randy_tx:
Just an IDEA........before trying complicated measures...try this:
When the system FIRST starts up......hold down the F8 key.......you will see a screen with a list of options.........choose to boot the computer in "Safe Mode". If it will do that, then we can more easily help you from there.

[jonsax]

I have now gotten as far as getting into the list of files and openning config.sys. There is has two lines: Device=C:\windows\himen.sys and Device=C:\windows\EMM386.exe. Your instructions say to type "rem" and a space in front of what is there. However in an earlier post you said to use "ren." I tried "ren" in front of "device" and then , when that didn't effect a boot, after C:\. That didn't do anything either.

I suspect we are getting close here, but please realize that I don't have a clue about DOS and so you really have to spell out every single step. You can't assume even the most rudimentary knowledge on my part.

Can you tell me what to do next? Thanks.

Originally posted by mjc:
At the c: prompt type edit...that will bring up the DOS editor...then unless you have mouse support, you'll need to use the keyboard, the alt key will get you in to the file menu the arrow keys will allow you to scroll through it, scroll down to Open...and then hit enter...it should bring up a list of the files to open...scroll down to config.sys and then open it see what it says....especially what the first line is....type rem and a space in front of what is there, save it and reboot...or post back with what the line is...

[jonsax]

I did this and it did say "system transfered." But it still wouldn't boot. Any suggestions?

Originally posted by lysdexia:
Try booting from disk again, and type sys c: from the a: prompt. It should say "system transferred".

[mjc]

Never mind the rem or ren...if you typed that first line exact it should be:
device=C:\windows\himem.sys
not:

There is has two lines: Device=C:\windows\himen.sys and Device=C:\windows\EMM386.exe.



Here is a copy of a working config.sys file.....


DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=128 /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=C:\windows\EMM386.exe /noems
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
SWITCHES=/F /E
DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO
BUFFERS=10,0
FILES=80
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=0,0
LASTDRIVE=H


rem this line is just a test.....



The ren I refered to in my earlier post was if you found a backup of config.sys...type rename config.bak config.sys, the rem stands for remark...to turn a line from an active line to just a comment,

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

Gun Control...hitting what you aim at!

[jonsax]

So are you saying that I should type exactly what you have here in the config.sys file? And is there another such set of lines that I need to type for the autoexec.bat file?

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=128 /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=C:\windows\EMM386.exe /noems
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
SWITCHES=/F /E
DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO
BUFFERS=10,0
FILES=80
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=0,0
LASTDRIVE=H

Originally posted by mjc:
Never mind the rem or ren...if you typed that first line exact it should be:
device=C:\windows\himem.sys
not:

The ren I refered to in my earlier post was if you found a backup of config.sys...type rename config.bak config.sys, the rem stands for remark...to turn a line from an active line to just a comment,

[mjc]

You can, but other than the first two lines the res isn't really needed...just make sure that it reads himem.sys...and hopefully the autoexec errors will work themselves out with the proper wording in config.sys. Also if there isn't going to be any DOS used outside of Windows you can just rename the file to somethng like config.bad and autoexec.bad and reboot...Windows98 doesn't really need them to run but it can't run any DOS programs outside of Windows without them...from a DOS box in Windows, yes.

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

Gun Control...hitting what you aim at!

[jonsax]

I had just copied down "Himem" wrong. I just tried to go into the DOS editor to rename the config.sys and autoexec.bat file with .bad, as you suggested. But all I have been able to accomplish is to create new files named config.bad and autoexec.bad. I can't find a way to either delete the originals or rename them. I did go into the original files and erase what was in them. But that hasn't enabled a boot.

Can you tell me how to rename or delete the original files? Are there any further steps or options that you can detail? I just can't believe that this should be this hard. Are you -- or is anyone -- willing to let me call you and have you talk me through some of this?

[jonsax]

I do have a copy of the windows 98 upgrade cd that was used to upgrade his system from windows 95 about almost year ago. Can I boot from a floppy and somehow just reinstall windows? Can I do that without wiping out everything on his disk?

[mjc]

First at the DOS, switch to the c: drive and then type "del_config.*" and "del_autoexec.bat", (type it in with a space instead of the underscore and without quotes) that will delete all the files of those names...you can use the file extensions instead (.bad, .bat, .sys) and delete them one at a time...

You should be able to select "with CD_rom support" as one of the options when boot ing from the CD, you should then be able to pop in the CD and switch to that drive (usually e:), and then type "setup". But be forewarned, installing over top may not fix anything, if the file version on the hard drive is newer than that on the CD it may not be overwritten.

------------------
mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

Gun Control...hitting what you aim at!

[jonsax]

[Well, despite all of your kind help, I have not been successful. I tried deleting the config and autoexec files, but that didn't help. I then tried to run setup but the CD I used, the win98 upgrade disk used to install (upgrade) the system back in December, said it couldn't find any qualifying previous files on the C drive. I browsed and tried to select many different files, including one that said "windows," but to no avail.

I am giving up and will advise my friend to take it to CompUSA or some such place. I will now happily, thankfully go back to my MAC G4, counting my blessing that I chose a mac back in '84 and stuck with it. The PC world really IS the dark side, as one of you said initially . . .

But thanks again for trying to help.

Jon.