A Problem!

[akif]

I bought a 80GB Maxtor today.
when i tried to connect it to my comp, the BIOS Setup did not detect it and stayed there freezed.
I have 440LX chipset on board and Award 1998 BIOS.
If the mobo is too old to detect such a huge HDD, what can be done now?

[Budfred]

It looks like you can't use the full drive easily:

http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/mature/450_440.htm

but I believe there are programs you can install to use it. I would check the website for the drive maker to see what utility they offer to help with this. Others will be able to tell you more. You may want to consider getting an PCI IDE expansion card to help in using it, that might even get by the bottleneck....

[akif]

Presently, i m using my older 6.4GB HD and cannot simply make my system detect the newer HD (80GB)

I contacted my HDD vendor and what he told that 440LX can't support HDDs greateer than 20GB.
He suggested that i need to install a new mobo alongwith the processor in order to connect the new 80GB HD.I can;t presently afford such a big upgradation.
I m waiting for detailed suggestions.
thanx.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Budfred already mentioned a good workaround for you. Buy an IDE/PCI card to attach your new HDD to. Transfer any files you want to keep from the old to the new drive. Reformat the smaller one and reinstall your OS onto that but use the larger one for data storage.

Effectively you will now have 86.4 gigs to work with.

[Sylvander]

I DON’T BELIEVE YOU NEED A NEW MOTHERBOARD

PC FREEZING AT DRIVE DETECTION
1. Are all the disk drive parameters correctly set [in the BIOS Setup] for all the drives?
You may have changed the drive arrangement by changing connections and/or jumpers and failed to alter the drive parameters to match the new arrangement. The best thing to do is set all the drives to “Auto” so that all the drives are “Dynamically Auto-Detected” and configured correctly and the results displayed on-screen at every startup so you can see all is well. If you specify them manually or use “Static Detection” [“IDE HDD Auto Detection” in the BIOS Setup] it only matches provided you do not change the hardware connections or jumper arrangement.
1. Did you connect the new HDD as master and try to boot from it?
To boot from a drive [connected to the Primary IDE controller with the jumper set at “Master”] it must have a “Primary Partition” which is marked as “Active” and have an Operating System installed [even if it’s only DOS].

MAXTOR
If you go to the Maxtor website they may supply utility software for free [Western Digital does this] which will test your new drive and also whether the BIOS is capable of handling [giving addresses to] the full capacity of this drive.
There is commonly a problem for older BIOS’s addressing drives greater than 8 GB.
This can be overcome by a number of methods.
1. The cheapest and simplest, though not the safest [I’ve never had a problem with it] is “Drive Overlay Software”, which your drive manufacturer may supply free as part of the utility package.
They may also supply a program [and instructions for use] to move the contents of the old to the new HDD [if that’s what you decide to do, Ted’s advice is good].
2. The PCI IDE controller card is safer, though more expensive [1 is free] and has the advantage that it can run concurrently and simultaneously [side by side at the same time] with one drive on each of the other controllers. [Only one drive (at each instant in time) can run on each controller.]
If you have three controllers you can have three drives running side by side at the same instants in time.
Hence there are advantages to the extra expense.

The utilities I have include a program for re-partitioning drives which is better than "fdisk".

FLASH UPGRADE THE BIOS
This is another alternative to the above problem of addressing HDD’s greater than 8 GB.
It’s a little risky [so I hear]. If anything goes wrong during the procedure you’re in trouble.
However, “faint heart never won fair lady” and “who dares wins”.
I didn't do this because there were difficulties getting the Flash Upgrade program and it was so easy just to use “Drive Overlay Software”.

[saphalline]

Why not just partition the 80GB drive into four smaller 20GB partitions? That way, your PC would see a 6.4GB HD, and four 20GB HD's. :D

I think that would work, but if I'm wrong someone please tell me! :eek: :p

[Budfred]

The IDE is ATA33 and the BIOS is apparently not even able to detect the drive, so it can't be partitioned into smaller drives. An add-in IDE card is still probably the best option other than a major upgrade.

[akif]

i visited the Maxtor website and found that software can't be a solution to my problem as i am using Award BIOS v4.51PG; which (specifically) has a limitation of 32 GB.
So the only workaround is either to get a BIOS update or buy an Ultra ATA PCI card; which most of you people suggested.
Thanx for all the suggestions.

[Sylvander]

I went here http://tinyurl.com/aea2 to the Maxtor website and found the following:

The BIOS does not detect the ATA hard drive.
 Capacity of the hard drive is too large for the BIOS to support
On older systems (pre- November 1998) the BIOS may not support drives that are larger than 32 GB. If the ATA hard drive you are trying to install has a capacity larger than what the BIOS can support the drive may not be detected by the system.
To troubleshoot this problem, follow these steps.
1. Enter the system BIOS. This is usually accomplished by pressing the F2, Delete, or F1 key when your system is powering on. When you first turn on your computer look for a on-screen message indicating which key to press to enter Setup.
2. Select User or User defined and enter:
 Cylinders = 1024
 Heads = 16
 Sectors = 63
 LBA Mode or IDE Translation Mode = Normal, Standard CHS, or disabled.
These parameters will tell the system that your drive's capacity is 502 MB or 528 MB, a capacity that most, if not all BIOS's can support.
3. Ignore the Write Pre Comp (WpCom) and Landing Zone (LZ) settings; they can be set to zero.
4. Save BIOS settings and exit.
5. Restart the system with MaxBlast. MaxBlast should detect the drive. MaxBlast will install a disk overlay that will allow the BIOS to support the full capacity of the drive.

Note: Windows XP and 2000 users: Please download MaxBlast version 1.30. Older versions of MaxBlast will not support Windows XP and 2000.
If MaxBlast doesn't detect the drive and you followed all the troubleshooting steps above you may need to contact your motherboard manufacturer for a BIOS upgrade or purchase an Ultra ATA PCI adapter card. Maxtor's online store, www.MaxStore.com, offers a complete line of Ultra ATA PCI cards that provides support for large capacity drives.
-----------------------------------------

Did you notice it said:
MAXBLAST WILL INSTALL A DISK OVERLAY THAT WILL ALLOW THE BIOS TO SUPPORT THE FULL CAPACITY OF THE DRIVE.
My bios is also “Award BIOS v4.51PG” and I am using drive overlay software.
I have successfully used both Western Digital Corporations version and Samsung’s version.

[classicsoftware]

Do you have an 80 wire connector? If you are using a plain IDE ribbon cable it will not detect the drive.

[akif]

Classicsoftware, what is this 80 wire connecter?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Sylvander,
Yes i read exactly the same solution, and besides, a link inside it read the following:

Problem:
After connecting my new drive, my system hangs after counting the memory or during Auto-Detection. Why?

Answer
If your system hangs after installing the new Maxtor hard drive - either before or after setting the system BIOS - this may be an indication that the BIOS has a capacity barrier or cylinder limitation and does not correctly support the hard drive's capacity. This could also be caused by a conflict with another device on the same cable as the new drive. For either of these conditions, try the following:
Remove any device that is on the same cable with the new drive and try booting with the Maxtor drive configured as the only drive. Use the master or cable select jumper setting and make sure your BIOS is set to auto-detect. If this step resolves your problem then you will need to make sure the jumper settings - such as Master, Slave, or Cable Select - are properly set for both devices (or put the other device on a seperate ATA cable by itself). If this doesn't solve your problem proceed to step 2.


Note: Award BIOS version 4.51 PG has a known 32 GB capacity limitation. Setting the Cylinder Limitation Jumper and using the MaxBlast Plus II software may not allow you to work around this limitation. Contact your system or motherboard manufacturer for a BIOS update that may resolve this issue. Another way to overcome the BIOS limitation is to install an Ultra ATA PCI card like the Maxtor Ultra ATA/133 PCI Adapter Card.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone tell if the IDE card will provide the same performance as i get from the onboard IDE controller?

[classicsoftware]

Did a ribbon cable come with the drive?

What color is the connector that plugs into the drive?

[Sylvander]

It seems you can get a controller card that's as fast as the drive [same ATA rating] but I have a book that warns:
"Keep in mind that the CPU, RAM, and system bus MAY limit the drive's performance."

[Budfred]

The controller card will definitely be limited by the CPU and overall speed of this system, but it should allow full access to the hard drive without using a software overlay. That said, it may give you slightly better performance over the onboard IDE port.

You do need to use the right cable as classicsoftware indicates....
All IDE cables have 40 pin connectors, but newer ones have 80 wires while older ones have only 40. The 80 wire ones do look different, but it is hard to be sure unless you have one of each to compare. If you have round cables, you can't tell by the way they look at all, but the connectors are a different set of colors.

[s8r Dude]

I just recently bought a AMD Duron 1.3 Ghz po and m/b but it won't detect my crappy cd-write its a TEAC CDW45E so someone please tell me do i need a new cd-rom?? i cant afford to but another m/b please someone help!!

[Budfred]

s8r Dude,

Welcome to http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif

I would recommend that you start your own thread to ask your question since it isn't really even along the same lines as this thread. When you do, you will need to provide a lot more detail about the problem. The motherboard is unlikely to be the problem, so we will need to know what Windoze you are using, more details about the specs of your system, if the drive was working before, what troubleshooting you have already done and anything else that might give us a clue to the problem. Most of the regulars here read all the new posts, so it will get seen in a new thread.

[akif]

Budfred and classicsoftware,
I was not given any cable what-so-ever with the HDD.
The only thing other than the drive were mounting screws.
I connected it to the older data cable that i had.

By the way, i placed a jumper on the CLJ position and now this HD has been detected and working with the BIOS barrier(32GB).
However, i'll definitely find a card and the 80 cable soon to get the full 80GB access.

[s8r Dude]

errrmm,

well this is basically my computer,

AMD Duron 1.3 Ghz
dontknow what m/b it is
but heres my specs

256 sdr ram pci 133
a crappy 2 gb hardrive but im getting anohter one soon
GeForce 2 mx400 graphics card
17" monitor
i think my harddroive runs at 54000 rpm (not sure)



i think that it is my hardrive that is causeing all of the problems because it is so old!! ne way im not useing any windowz cuz i had to format the harddrive so i could use my new m/b and pro


i think that i need just a new up-to-date cd0-roma dn a new harddrive then i should (hopefully) be sorted so i play my black hawk down and counter strike

[Budfred]

s8r Dude,

Please start your own thread and please use English....

[s8r Dude]

i have...

[rond36]

When I installed a 40GB WD hard drive in my 333MHz P II with a 440LX chipset and 1998 BIOS I used a Promise Ultra 66 ATA/66 PCI controller card it came with an 80 wire 40 pin IDE cable (I still have it). The card has its own BIOS for large drive support. I cant find that card for sale but I did find Promise Ultra 133TX2 IDE controller card at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=11&manufactory=1119&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1) (first item on page) it supports ATA66/100/133 drives and comes with IDE cable and driver diskette (click on the "see it" link after the product description to see the product). It is only $35.00 that's much cheaper than a motherboard and processor upgrade.

[s8r Dude]

Thanks for that m8 but its too l8 my mdad wenbt out and bought me the upgrade but now i cant even ionstall any games and how do you install sound drivers?? because ive tried instqall all the m/b drivers but the sound still doenst detect :'( please help me i dont know what to do:'(

[akif]

I need to know what should be the considerations in buying an EIDE card for my 80G HD;Considering me as a layman.

[Budfred]

Any IDE controller card should be ok. Get one to match your hard drive, so if it is ATA133, get a controller that will handle ATA133. I probably wouldn't get a RAID card if you don't want to do a RAID array, but it probably would be ok if it was cheaper. Look here for some options:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=ide+controller

[akif]

well, i do have heard about RAID but don't know its importance/advantage.

[Budfred]

RAID is used with multiple hard drives in the same system to make data access a bit safer and/or faster. It tends to be tricky to work with and usually not worth the hassle for the casual user. I would not encourage going that way unless you really want to be challenged. However, I think most RAID cards will also work as regular IDE ports.

[akif]

Budfred, u r always more than helpful
The problem now i m having is that i live in a locality where there aren't much computer experts(i m talking about the vendors)

Yesterday, i went to the market and almost none understood the idea of using an IDE controller card to support larger hard disks for old BIOSes.At one shop, i was able to find a (2nd hand/used) IDE PCI card, but it was without any packing or manual. i wasn't sure such a card will work or not when the shopkeeper was also not willing to take it back if didn't fulfilled the purpose.
Another shopkeeper had a card but said that the BIOS will still not let to connect a HD more than its barrier limit(32G).
I can't buy anything via the internet.

Plz help if you have a solution.
Or atleast tell whether i should look for a card with a BIOS on it or any card will work and will keep the mobo BIOS chip away from interferring.
thanx.

[Budfred]

Here is some info on a Promise UltraATA100 controller from their website:

Ultra100 TX2



Promise Technology delivers the first Ultra ATA/100 controller card to
support 66MHz PCI motherboards. The broader bandwidth assures
maximum drive performance over the PCI bus with CRC error-checking,
greater data reliability, and faster transfers

http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?productId=11&familyId=3

And here is some info from SIIG on an UltraATA 133 controller:

Key Features and Benefits

Works with various brands of Ultra ATA
133/100/66/33 hard disk drives and ATAPI
devices including CD/ROM and CD-R/RW
drives, DVD-ROM and zip drives
Auto-detects drive types and fine tunes to
the best performance for each Ultra ATA
drive
Breaks the 137GB barrier! Supports various
types of large capacity hard disk drives.
Achieves burst data transfer rates up to
133MB/sec with Ultra ATA/133 drives

Requirements

Pentium or equivalent computers with one
available PCI slot
Windows 95 or later

http://www.siig.com/products/ide/features/Ultra_ATA133PCI.html

From what I have heard before and what I can tell from these ads, you can use a PCI controller card to boot larger disks on an older system. I think the guy that told you it couldn't was wrong... does anyone else know??? I have used them to give me more ports for loading devices so I haven't even tried to use them to go around the BIOS. However, I believe they all have their own BIOS on them to run drives...

As for where to get them if you can't order from the web.. where do you live, maybe we can come up with something in the area for you....

[akif]

i live in Pakistan-specifically in Rawalpindi.

[Budfred]

That could make things a little tricky. There are some companies that will ship internationally, but it could get a little pricey to go that way.

What are return policies like in your area. If you get one of the available cards and try it unsuccessfully, will you be able to return it? It is unlikely that it could damage anything in your computer, so it might be worth a try if you can return it. Otherwise, you may have to look at finding a newer motherboard and CPU if you really want to use that drive....