I want two 168-pin sticks of 512MB SDRAM

[tonysolomon]

What should I look for? My motherboard manual says: "support for 100/133 MHZ memory bus", but Belarc says my main circuit board has a bus clock 66MHZ. Does that create a problem? What types of SDRAM are there? I know there is DDR, but I don't know if I should get it or if my motherboard will support it. I'm not sure what type of motherboard I have. The user's manual says things like, "pc266" "socket A M810 series users manual".

[saphalline]

Your motherboard appears to be the PCChips M810, using the SiS 730S chipset. PCChips' website seems to be down as I type this, so additional info from the manufacturer will have to wait.

However, yes, I think your mobo will only take up to PC133 SDRAM (gleaned from a Google search). Belarc can tell you many things, but I doubt it will tell you what chipset you have or what RAM type(s) you can use. MicroATX form factor, 2 x DIMM slots for 2GB max RAM, ATA/66, etc.

The only problem is that PC133 SDRAM seems to be rising in price lately. More expensive than DDR333 at most places! :eek: That's if you want good quality RAM, tho, so if you don't mind taking a risk with cheap stuff you can probably find it cheaper. This (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=kingston+pc133+512) Kingston RAM on Newegg is $77 for one stick of 512MB, so you'd be looking at $154 for a full gig of RAM. Really cheap compared to a couple years ago, but not the cheapest that SDRAM has ever been. Best to buy it up now if you need it! It's probably just gonna go up from here.

[tonysolomon]

Tigerdirect.com has a special price of $50 per stick after a $30 rebate. I'm just debating about whether I should deal with them again. Their customer service is not the best.

[Budfred]

There are some good deals on SDRAM at 2 or 3 of the chains this week. Check their ads...

[saphalline]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Budfred here. No one knows chain store sales & rebates like Budfred! :D I swear, you must scour the ads every week and post them up. ;)

Seriously, tho, chain stores with old stocks of SDRAM are probably the cheapest you're gonna find now that SDRAM is going out of production. Or at least, on 'life support' production.

[Budfred]

saphalline,

Except for the part about posting them up, that is exactly what I do... I especially look for things that I know someone else is looking for since I advise a lot of friends in addition to the questions on the forum here. I am a bargain hunter by upbringing - my mother would spend $20 in gas driving around trying to save $1 on some product... Fortunately with the web, I can do it a lot cheaper...:D

[tonysolomon]

Thank you both. I'll check out bestbuy.com.

What's a good web site to learn about the different types of RAM?

How'd you know that SDRAM is going away?

It's the only kind of RAM that my motherboard book mentions, so what will replace it?

[mjc]

DDR and sometime in the not too distant future QDR (double and quad data rate).

Just an aside, which version of Windows do you plan on running with this much RAM?

[Budfred]

SDRAM is fading because faster RAM is becoming the standard. You will probably be able to find SDRAM for a long time to come, but it may get a little harder than it is now...

To find out more about RAM, either do a search for it on the forum or check the PCGuide database...

[tonysolomon]

Thanks guys.

@MJC, I'll be using it on Windows ME.

Can I use DDR Ram even though my motherboard book doesn't mention it?

[Budfred]

No you can't. DDR RAM has a different config and won't even fit in a SDRAM slot....

[Budfred]

If you check out the OfficeMax ad, they have K-Byte RAM on sale on page 6, but it only goes up to 256MB. If you are using WinME, you can't really use more than 512 though, so you may want to go with the 256MB. They are $20 after rebate...

[tonysolomon]

Got it. I'm finding this upgrading contagious. I started out only wanting to get a bigger hard drive, then I decided to get 1 GB of RAM and a cable modem. Now I'm going to network them.

I've even been looking at motherboards, since mine only has a 66MHZ bus. I saw some with 333MHZ buses. I'm not going to get one, until I buy a new computer, though, because I will also look for a much faster CPU, Video and Sound Card. I have a 800MB Athlon and I'm clueless about the speed of my video card and sound card. I don't know how they compare to the fast cards that are out now.

[saphalline]

An Athlon at 800MHz has a 200MHz system bus speed. I don't know what Belarc was referring to for the 66MHz speed, but it wasn't your bus speed. Maybe it was your video's bus speed. AGP 2x. That's the only thing I can think of.

Well, chances are if you have a pre-built system, the sound & video are likely to be lacking. Probably onboard for both of them, tho your vid card may actually be a dedicated old TNT2 M64 (it was the trend during that era).

As to what you can upgrade to, well... worlds more powerful! :cool: That's the only way to describe it with hardware being as cheap as it is now. I dare say you wouldn't need to spend over $600 to get everything you want, if you keep your current monitor (actually one of the most costly parts of a PC these days).

[tonysolomon]

You're right about sound and video both being onboard and lacking. It is a preassembled PC. I got it about 4 years ago for $500. It was the cheapest PC that I could find, at a computer fair, that was at least 800MHZ, 30GB, 128MB SDRAM, Modem and had a CD-RW.

I look in the motherboard book and it does say:
PC266 Systemboard
Socket A M810 series User's Manual

Socket 462 processor support
800MHZ Athlon Duron
supports 200MHZ front-bus side
processors are automatically configured using firmware and synchronous host/DRAM Clock scheme.

Built-in Graphics System
Onboard 128-bit 2D/3D 100MHZ host interface AGP graphics accelerator complies with AGP V2.0
Shared memory architecture allows a maximum of 64MB main memory to act as frame buffer
Supports high resolutions up to 1920x1440 hi-colors, up to 2048X2048 Texture size and virtual screen up to 4096x4096
Supports hardware DVD Accelerator

AC97 Codec
Compliant PC97 2.1 specification
Supports 18-bit ADC (Analog Digital Converter) and DAC (Digital Analog Converter) as well as 19-bit stereo full-duplex codec

---------------
Belarc says:

Main circuit board
Bus clock speed: 66MHZ

Display
SiS 630/730 [display adapter]

Multimedia
MPU-401 Compatible MIDI Device
SiS 7018 Audio Driver - Avance Codec
Wave Device for Voice Modem

---------------
My Receipt from the vendor says:
64MB shared video card
32MB sound card

Do you think I have mainboard bus clock 66MHZ?
How does my video and sound compare to the current stuff(I don't understand those to enough to know)?

[jabarnutcase]

Hi tonysolomon -

Belarc is just incorrectly reporting your bus speed as 66mhz...Belarc isn't etched in stone, just references their database. For example, I had a computer with only two memory slots, Belarc said I had four.

Anyway, as far as your video comparing to "current stuff", sorry but it doesn't. You have on-board video that shares the main memory...Not the hottest setup.

I happened to find an very useful page on that (PC Chips) Motherboard for a member that had a question about (I think) his microphone not working on either the same board or a similar one.

Hmmm- Had to do some searching....Anyway, it's here:
PC Chips M810lmr facts page (http://radel.inet.net.nz/m810lmr.html)
According to that site, the earliest boards didn't have an AGP slot, you would have to check your version number. If yours does, you could add a better video card. (according to the site, that board is very picky about what cards it takes too.)
As far as mjc asking about the ram, I think it's because WinME won't even recognize 1 GIG of Ram without some tweaking. In any case, it may be overkill for your system especially depending on what you want to do with it.
Off for the day! Good luck....Others will be along again to confuse you further. ;)

[saphalline]

I would say that if you're going to upgrade to current stuff, you might want to ditch that mobo. What I read from my Google search wasn't exactly positive, and in any case, when you can get an AthlonXP 1700+ (more than twice as powerful as your Athlon 800) for only $50, well...

You're probably better off building most of it from scratch as pre-built systems (especially the cheap ones) weren't designed with upgrading in mind! Gut that Athlon 800 system for parts you can use and buy a new core.

[tonysolomon]

jabarnutcase, thank you very much for the link. Do you think it's wise to download all of those driver updates? Should I reboot after each one? Since, the on-board video shares the main memory won't it help if it I upgrade my memory?
What tweaks do I need to do to ME for 1GB SDRAM? Thanks for the help.

@Saphalline, I don't want to buy a new motherboard, video card, sound card or CPU. I just want to get a bigger hard drive, more RAM and a faster Internet connection. Your suggestion has crossed my mind, though. It's just that this one's not that bad. Thanks.

[Budfred]

The thing about using more than 512MB RAM with WinME is that you have to tweak it to get it to work and it may even run slower after you do. Chances are that you will see no benefit from it as well. If you were running WinXP with heavy graphic work, I would say to go for it, but not with WinME. Also, are you sure your board will even support that much RAM???

[jabarnutcase]

I agree with Budfred, 512MB is plenty of Ram if you're going to stick with that system and WinME.
For that matter, 512MB is plenty for most people anyway.

Go with your new hard drive, a Cable modem-(I think that's what you were after in another thread, right?) And, if you want to do some gaming you may want to add a new video card.
Again, from the link I provided, it looks like the selection of video cards that board will take is limited....Certainly would not take the latest high end cards.

As far as the drivers go, I would be careful about going nuts with new drivers if everything is working to your satisfaction.
I'm not really sure what you mean by downloading "all of those driver updates"....But to me it's one of those "if it aint broke, don't fix it" kind of things.

I think you'll be happy with a broadband connection, a bigger hard drive, and 512MB of ram. And keep WinME up to date......The next step would be, as saphalline mentioned, building a new system rather than trying to tweak much more out of that particular motherboard.

(Edit) I just noticed you have a 30GB hard drive....I realize by todays standards it's not so big, but unless it's filled up, it aint so bad either!

[Fruss Tray Ted]

...and contrary to popular belief, this series board with onboard video does support a max 4x AGP video card. That would be quite an improvement over the onboard you are now using. You haven't told us EXACTLY what board it is so some info may be off slightly per version differrences.

This look like your board?
http://www.pcchips.com.tw/product/image/810l71a-1.jpg
http://www.pcchips.com.tw/product/image/810l71a-2.jpg
http://www.pcchips.com.tw/product/image/810l71a-3.jpg
http://www.pcchips.com.tw/product/image/810l71a-4.jpg
That's a weird one, the pic is in 4 parts?!?

[jabarnutcase]

Hey! Here's Another Pic (http://www.pcchips.com.tw/M810LMR.html) ...And it's all in one piece too! :p

Tony did mention in his last post though, that he didn't really want to buy a new video card.
Anyway, there are different models like you said- And from my first link:A brief motherboard history:
Motherboard version 1.0 = No AGP port
Motherboard version 1.3 = No AGP port
Motherboard version 1.6 = First version with AGP port
Motherboard version 3.0 = Some support 266Mhz but not sure which
Motherboard version 5.0 = First with official support for 266FSB and 4 channel sound codec
Motherboard version 7.0 = First to support XP+ CPUs and "Morgan" Duron CPUs
Motherboard version 7.0a = First to support XP+ CPUs and "Morgan" Duron CPUs higher than 1600+
Motherboard version 7.1 = Current series
I assume my pic is the "latest version" 7.1 (?)
And since Tony mentioned he got his computer around 4 years ago, I would suspect it falls somewhere in the middle of the model numbers.

The purpose of this post? Beats me! :confused: :)

(Edit) Here's another pic (http://www.pcchips.com.tw/product/M810Lv71a.html) ...Looks like yours Fruss....And the purpose of this edit? Beats me! :confused: :)
Apparently, the "L' or "LM', LMR is the same board but with built in Lan/Modem (or not).
(Edit #2) Really strange....Looks like an older PCChips site and a "new" updated site if you click on the "news tab". Both found in a search.
And the purpose of my second edit?..The heck with this, I'm going to bed! :( :D

[tonysolomon]

Hey guys, I've been doing quite a few threads and I put the name of the PC motherboard book onto one of those threads. Here's the info: PC266 systemboard; socket A M810 series User's Manual. I just verified how old it was and my receipt says that I bought it in March of 2000. My motherboard looks more like the second picture(it's not red). I'll have to get into the case for a better look.

EDIT: I just saw the comments at the end of page 1. I thought I had said how much memory my board would support, but it must have been another thread.

My motherboard book says:
Memory Support
Two DIMM for 168-pin SDRAM memory modules
Support for 100/133 MHZ memory bus
Maximum installed memory is 2x512MB = 1GB

I don't play video games, so that's why I'm okay with the current video and sound card. I will build a new one someday, in the future, and get all of the best features.

I want a hard drive, because my 30GB only has about 6GB left.

[saphalline]

Here's (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=wd800jb) one of the best 80GB hard drives out there, only $96. You wanna go up from there? 120GB? 200GB? :D Storage is cheap.

[jabarnutcase]

Hi Tony-(BTW-"Tony" is ok right?)
Anyway, yes we see that the board supports 1 gig of Ram. Do you understand that 512MB is PLENTY for your needs though? (Especially with WinME). Don't waste your money on a gig of Ram.

Now, the Hard Drive. :D Yes- That's a sweet Western Digital...(Im kind of partial to WD anyway).

My first "really HUGE" HDD was 420MB.....Not even a half a Gig. I got one of those..."Wow! you'll NEVER use all that space!"....HeHe- I couldn't even fit my OS on that one now!

Like saphalline said, storage is cheap these days....Enjoy.

(Think I just read somewhere that drive capacities are almost doubling every year....Before long, people will be laughing at the 200"Gigers", and bragging about how many TeraBytes of storage they have.) :eek: :D

[tonysolomon]

Yeah, Tony's my first name. I agree with both of you when you say that storage is cheap. I think if tigerdirect's rebate is for real then memory is cheap too. I posted a hard drive that I saw last night, at Best Buy, on another thread. It's 120GB, 7200RPM, and has 8MB of cache. It's $120 after the rebate.

Edit I just checked with Tigerdirect, since they had 512MB for 49.99, after rebate. You were right about only getting 512MB. The guy was very knowledgeable about RAM. He said that Win 98, ME, and 2000 only recognize a maximum of 512MB, unlike Win XP. He also said that since I had an 800MHZ CPU that I should get PC100 instead of PC133. He said that my CPU has a 100MHZ bus speed and that I would end up returning the PC133 to Tigerdirect, since it wasn't compatible. He said China stopped making the PC133 backwards compatible, since January, and that they've received 1400 returns of PC133 sticks. He also said that they are sold out of 512MB sticks until next Friday. I guess I'll wait, but I hope it will still be around $50, after rebate. By then I'll have my cable modem and my 120GB drive.

[mjc]

He said that Win 98, ME, and 2000 only recognize a maximum of 512MB, unlike Win XP. He also said that since I had an 800MHZ CPU that I should get PC100 instead of PC133. He said that my CPU has a 100MHZ bus speed and that I would end up returning the PC133 to Tigerdirect, since it wasn't compatible. He said China stopped making the PC133 backwards compatible, since January, and that they've received 1400 returns of PC133 sticks

Not all that knowledgeable...

1. Win2K most certainly can and does recognise more than 512MB, in fact ican see and use the theoretical maximum for a 32 bit CPU...4GB. Infact, NT can do this also.

2. There are 133FSB 800MHz PIII...also if your board is able to do a 133FSB setting, it is possible that you could run you CPU at 100 and your RAM at 133, most BIOS of the era allowed the RAM to be set at bus +33MHz.

3. If that is true then the memory IS NOT PC133 memory...part of the spec, last time I checked is backwards compatability...he is just making excuses to cover for the fact that they are selling crappy RAM.

[tonysolomon]

I hear ya, MJC. I'm going up to Best Buy to buy a hard drive and check on the price of their ram. Thanks.

[Budfred]

Best Buy has 256MB SDRAM for $20 after rebate this week. Since you have WinME, you are probably better off getting two of those rather than one of whatever TigerDirect is trying to foist off on you.

[tonysolomon]

Thank you Budfred. That is a perfect deal. Best Buy and Office Max both have the same offer. Since I was taking my hard drive back to Best Buy, I decided to get 2 256MB SDRAM sticks, for $20 each, after rebate. I can't believe these two stores are outbidding the online stores. I have seen the light.

Windows ME will only recognize 512MB and I got an excellent deal I love saving money! Thanks again.