Both drive's directorys corupt and unreadable after copying 1 partition to another

[videobruce]

I added a new drive to replace a smaller drive to my box and now after copying the old active drive to the new active drive both the orginal drive and now the new drive shows that the directory is corupt and unreadable when I try to run System Suite Jet Defrag. Chkntfs shows it is dirty.

The box has 2 drives both partitioned that I can switch between the 2 and boot from either one via a toggle switch on the front panel.
All 4 partitions were FAT32 that I converted to NTFS using the convert utility within 2k.
I used Partition Magic to partition and format the new drive. I used Drive Image to copy the active partition from the larger of the 2 orginal drives that were in the system to the new drive's active partition.
When I finished using DI, the orginal active drive's partition was hidden (no idea why, I didn't choose that option) I unhide it and then had to make it active again.

Both active partitions and the 2nd partition of both drivers are accessible. I'm typing this from the copyied drive right now.

I'm new to NTFS and have no idea what happened and how to fix it. I did run chkdisk twice, but it comes up clean.

[videobruce]

Update...........

I have run chkdsk many times and it never reports any errors. Only chkntfs doea and the Defrag program.
I also tried Norton's Speed Disk and it reported "inconsistencies" with the drive which rules out a bug in Jet Defrag.

Then I ran Jet Defarg from the other bootable drive (2 drives, 2 partitions each, first being active, all NTFS now, or at least tring to be NTFS) and I received the error, but I was able to click through them a couple of dozen times total. Some at the start and the rest and the end of the Defarg process.
I did notice the error message after looking at it closer said it was a file error, not a directory error in the title bar of the box which tells me something else.

I ran MemTest86 and Dr Memory for a total of 18 hours with NO errors. I change the IDE cable also. Remember this is with a drive that was fine before the NTFS and a brand new drive, both with the same problems.

I restored the FAT32 image (I have both a orginal FAT32 image and the image of the orginal drive after I converted it to NTFS). The restored FAT32 image seems fine. NO "dirty" error with chkntfs and no errors with JetDefrag!

It seems the converted image is/has the/a problem. I'm confused just what is wrong and where it is.

I'm hopeing it isn't 'format c:' time!

[deddard]

Did you use a boot disk for partition magic? I can't remember details offhand, but if you look at the manual, it says it likes to run from a boot-disk rather than through windows.
I've had partitions corrupted before with partiion magic/ntfs.
can you use the partion magic as a rescue disk?

[Paul Komski]

Just for clarity's sake:-

a) Which OS?
b) What was the exact partition structure of the small drive?
c) You can, from what you say, use the OS - so what more specifically is the problem and/or error messages?
d) Which versions of PM and DI were you using?
e) Was the image file on one of the HDDs or on another medium.
f) Can you confirm that you have a good image of the original on FAT and is this just of C: or of C: and D: in one image file.

A couple of comments:-

a) If the original on NTFS was corrupt then so will it's clone be. So rather than try to "mend it" why not reimage the FAT image to the new drive, check that it works and run scandisk (full surface scan) first and then defrag. Convert to NTFS later. PM has always done this well for me; but the later versions, 7 and 8 are probably more reliable and easier to use from windows. They will reboot to a virtual floppy or run a batch file if this is necessary.

b) Not only re-imaging software, but also installing another OS can (and usually will) hide any other active partitions that can be seen, without any specific instructions, since this is the "logical" thing to do.

c) The NT OSes rather than the NTFS create great confusion by the way they assign and remember drive letters (and in effect emboss these onto the HDDs) - though this doesn't sound like your problem at first sight. If your original was C and D then so will your clone be - or want to be. Always make a note of the drive-lettering and partition structure, when you create an image. If this image is not replaced into an identical structure you can anticipate some problems. If both drives could see each other when the clone suddenly appeared on the scene then the OS has to make some difficult choices about lettering since you have designated to have 2 Cs and 2 Ds around at the same time.

d) Assuming you had C and D on a lone master, then you need to replace C and D onto another "lone master" - and preferably one that has no partition letters already written to it. Using a drive copy utility might be easier than using partition image files.

e) If the image files are on the small drive, then I would master the bigger one and slave the small one. Use PM from floppies to hide all the partitions on the slave (in effect hiding it from the master) and to delete all the partitions on the master (and thereby any already allocated drive letters). Then from the DI floppy restore the partition(s) from the hidden partitions on the slave to the new master: and into what should now all be unallocated space. Don't bother with trying to create the partition structure for the new copies in advance.

Good luck.

PS Just a thought. If you reimaged just C to the new drive (as master) and both drives were connected on rebooting; then the partitions on the slave would be D and E for the new "installation". If you later restored the original D it would become F, and not D or E, since those letters have already been assigned (and even reserved if you were to take the slave off line).

d)

[videobruce]

a) Which OS? b) What was the exact partition structure of the small drive? c) You can, from what you say, use the OS - so what more specifically is the problem and/or error messages? d) Which versions of PM and DI were you using? e) Was the image file on one of the HDDs or on another medium. f) Can you confirm that you have a good image of the original on FAT and is this just of C: or of C: and D: in one image file. a; Win 2k
b; one active, the other one extended (if that is what you wanted)
c; chkntfs says it's "dirty" and JetDefrag says it is "corupt and unreadable", but this appears to mean certain files within the partition
d; PM V8 and DI 2002 both are the latest
e; image was on one of the HDD's
f; I ran the program checking verify image and check file structure at the time, no errors reported and it is only a image of the active partition not the whole drive

The last time I have used only Drive Image, no Partition Magic and both were from boot disks.

The latest is when I restored the NTFS iamge again and looked closer, before I would use JetDefrag chktnfs reported the drive as "not dirty" When I ran the defrag it would stop at 8% with that error message. After that chkntfs would report the drive as "dirty". I gave up on this route since as you said the NTFS converted image has a problem.

Now to the FAT32 image. After that was restored, I ran chkntfs and it showed "not dirty" Then I ran thr defrag and all went fine. Then I converted the FS to NTFS. Chkntfs showed good again. Now the big test; JetDefrag. That ran OK! Chkntfs shows OK!

Great except one little thing: The MFT Zone is 1 GB! Yes that's GB not MB. I e-mailed vCom and they only pointed me to M$ KB on the MFT:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/fileio/base/master_file_table.asp

(Due to M$'s "my way or the highway" that address doesn't work in Opera since M$ isn't W3C compliant!)

Now what?

[Paul Komski]

Still don't know which OS you are using. 1GB might be big or small depending on how large the volume is. It is reserved in advance, as the article points out. It will fill up with time as the corresponding data area fills. It don't work the same way as FAT. If the data area fills and there's space within it, it will then get utilised - so theres no waste of space even if the allocation is apparently large.

;)

The MFT is at the very heart of NTFS and is what gives it it's efficency, security and support for very large volumes, etc, etc.

Though maybe not obviously apparent, everything in NTFS is a file with attributes. Folders are files and so indeed is the MFT!!

:)

[videobruce]

I was updating the post when you replied.
This is all 2k Paul

[videobruce]

The 2 other drives in my other box have the MFT under 65MB!
This partition is 8GB that has 2.1 used.
The main drive on the other box is a little smaller, but not by much. The backup drive's partition is smaller than that. I forgot just what size, but the partitions are under 6GB.

The MFT isn't based on the whole drive is it? Just on the partition itself, right?

[Paul Komski]

It's not used - its allocated; to be used intelligently as time goes by.

I wouldn't worry about it, but maybe it was the way it was converted. I always use PM.

[videobruce]

Paul, I just did the same thing on my other box; a didk to disk copy using DI and the MFT Zone wenr from 65MB to 650MB!
This was from a 6GB partition to a 5GB partition with about 2GB of data!

I guess it's time for another thread.