What P4 and Motherboard?

[drdan]

I am still intending to build a system but the original one with the ASUS A7N8X and Barton 2500+ just seems to have some issues that I don't want to deal with. It looks like overall I could get a similar level P4 system for $50-100 more. What would be your choice in good reliable stable fast P4 and motherboard in the 2.4Ghz and up range. I don't want cutting edge/high dollar. I do want USB 2.0, SATA for future upgrade and dual DDR capability.

[Steve]

Hi Doc,

I'm a fan of Intel products. Rock solid reliability and performance. Right now, I think the 2.4ghz, 533mhz chip is the sweet spot in Intel chips.

You can't really go wrong with a genuine Intel motherboard. The question really comes down to which Intel chipset serves you best. With the P4, I would suggest the 845 series chipset. I like the 845 because it uses DDR RAM instead of the RDRAM of the 850 chipset.

The question is which chipset serves your needs. You can look HERE (http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/chipsets/index.htm?iid=ipp_home+desk_chip&) for some chipset info.

We have some very knowledgeable folks here and I'm sure you will get some good advise. Tell us what you want to do and I'm sure we can help you find the motherboard to match.

[drdan]

This would be my first build so I want a board with few issues or work arounds needed to get everything to work. I want a board that is highly upgradable, memory, processor, video, SATA hard drive, later as prices drop and I can do them one at a time. I would really like one with hyperthreading capability even if it's a while before I get a processor capable of using it. I really want a P4 equivalent of the ASUS A7N8X board I mentioned, without the incompatibilty issues. I want USB 2.0. I want a board that can make full use of the dual DDR system.

I want fast and stable. I am not interested in over clocking unless easy and very stable and I have no interest in gaming at all. Surfing the internet, moderating message boards, editing digital photos, managing websites and web based businesses - without playing anymore of the "waiting for the computer to catch up" game than necessary. I often have several tasks going at once especially with website research and I want plenty of speed and capacity for that. Want to run XP pro.

[drdan]

I assume this is the processor you are talking about

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=N82E16819116139

[hawk7771us]

this might be what you want http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=280&manufactory=1315&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1
P4C800 takes 400/500/800/fsb from asus it's at the bottom of the page.

[saphalline]

The Canterwood chipset (i875P) is a good one, but I think overpriced. Granted it was intended for workstation use, tho. Intel does have a cheaper chipset coming out that does everything the 875P does, but is cheaper!

Ok, so it doesn't have ECC registered RAM support, but who really needs that? I expect the Asus mobo based on the 865PE chipset (also dual-DDR) to be out within the next 3-5 weeks, and to be priced at ~$120 (my guess). The MSI version is out now for only $105 but that's because MSI was naughty! They released it before they were supposed to, but it's still nifty that you can get a 865PE-based board when you're not supposed to! :D

Anyway, if you can wait, the 865PE chipset will be a lot cheaper than the 875P chipset, and will meet your needs just fine. Did I mention it was cheaper?

[drdan]

Okay, I can probably wait since I have to get together the funds anyway. I could not find the 865 MSI board on their site, I wonder if they pulled it because of the trouble they got into? Anyway I saw this board (MSI 875 NEO) which seems to have everything I want but may be too expensive. Any way to find out when it will actually be available and at what price?

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=434&MODEL=MS-6758

[saphalline]

Yeah, for some reason, Newegg's search is bit screwed up. If you look under motherboards, you can do a search with the drop-down menus. If you do a search for northbridge chipsets - 865PE, you get the $105 MSI plus a couple others that are starting to emerge. But oddly enough, this isn't all of them! :eek:

For instance, if you just do a search for all of MSI's mobo's, you find a $163 865PE as well! Go figure, but maybe Newegg needs some more time to catch up the search list...

Here's (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=865PE+msi) both MSI boards based on the 865PE chipset.

Here's (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=865PE) all the 865PE boards on Newegg.

[drdan]

Thanks Saphalline. The features and price of the $105 MSI board look very tempting but I'm confused about the difference in the 865 and 875 boards. Why is it so much cheaper if it's just as good? What are you paying for with the higher priced 875 boards. In fact what are you paying for extra with the $163 865 MSI board at Newegg? It looks like MSI is really pushing the new 875 board and is not listing the 865 anymore. Is that just temporary until the official launch date?

[saphalline]

MSI got caught in a nasty legal issue with Intel for releasing a 865PE-based mobo before the chipset itself was officially released. That might be one reason Newegg's search doesn't automatically bring up both of MSI's 865PE mobo's. Of course, you can hardly blame Newegg when even MSI's website doesn't readily list their 865PE boards! :eek: This might be the reason they're pushing their 875P mobo's so much... :rolleyes:

The main difference between the two MSI mobo's that I can see is that the $163 one has onboard LAN and some extra connectors. Might be worth it, but then again, what about the 875P?

If you want some juicy details about the differences between the two chipsets, take a quick look at this chart (http://www.anandtech.com/chipsets/showdoc.html?i=1806&p=4) from Anandtech. The 875P supports ECC RAM and has some type of "turbo mode", which might be extra overclocking features since I've seen ads for 875P mobo's stating "1000+ FSB". Looks like Intel's latest chipsets have been fine-tuned for Prescott! :D

For standard, everyday use, even the cheaper 865PE can challenge the 850E & RDRAM king of P4 hill no problem. Dual-DDR for the P4 is just that good! If you want overclocking headroom for Prescott, the 875P might be more your style. Just stay away from the 865P - the chart says this chipset can do dual-DDR but can't do the new 800MHz FSB! :(

Your call which chipset you want. Personally, I don't think I'll be overclocking quite that much, so I'm holding out for more 865PE mobo's. The good thing about these new Intel chipsets that the NForce2 chipset for the AthlonXP can't boast is chipset-level support for SATA. NForce2 mobo's have been relying on third-party SATA controller chips that run off the PCI bus and are thus limited to 133MB/s max (not to mention have been reportedly causing a few problems). With the i865/i875 chipsets, SATA is built-in so you get the full 150MB/s of the SATA 1.0 spec! ;)

[drdan]

Thanks again, that makes it much clearer.

What is ECC memory?

Is there any reason for a LAN if I'm not planning to be on a network?

[saphalline]

ECC stands for "error correcting code" and is used mostly in servers and workstations because it provides redundant data checks right on the RAM sticks. ECC RAM is generally very expensive but it's the only type of RAM that comes in large quantities (ie - the only 1GB & 2GB sticks of DDR RAM available are ECC and/or registered types). That's another term you'll see - registered. Registered RAM often works in conjunction with ECC checks, it works by providing extra bits to the data for parity checks. You can always tell registered RAM because it uses 72Mbit modules instead of the standard 64Mbit.

On a related note, ECC registered RAM is also required for a normal computing experience at high altitudes. The reason is that at high altitudes, the radiation content is higher (less atmosphere above you) and can actually interfere with your RAM! :eek: Probably other things, too. I wonder if they make 'high altitude' cases? :p

If you don't need LAN then don't worry about it. I only mention it because a lot of people are probably gonna want to upgrade from their cr*ppy 56K dial-up to a real internet connection :p if they haven't already. LAN is a networking technology, so it doesn't matter if you have a home network or want to connect to the world wide web network, it's all the same where the LAN hardware is concerned.

[drdan]

I very much appreciate you spending so much time on this. As usual though, the more answers I get the more questions it brings up.

What exactly is a LAN (Local Area Network) and why might I need it. It seemed like you were saying I might need it for higher bandwidth internet connections as well as networking with other computers. I have no plans at all for networking computers but may very well share a DSL or other high bandwith connection with other computers whether wireless or wired.

I am at 6,114 feet elevation in a dry climate and the sun is noticeably stronger here than at lower elevations due to thinner atmosphere. At what elevation do ECC cards make a significant difference? How does that affect laptops on planes?

[saphalline]

Heehee, yeah laptops on planes can get affected, depending on the amount of radiation that penetrates the plane's hull. It's not dangerous to humans so not all planes protect computers the same! ;) I think the lowest altitude you'd have to be is like on top of a mountain and out in the open on a clear day, so you should be fine.

Well, networking topologies are better instructed in the networking section of the forums :p but basically the LAN connector on a network PCI card or built-in to a mobo looks like a big phone connector. 56K modems have a phone connector called RJ11. PC networking connectors are called RJ45, so you can see that's a jump of 34 RJ's! :p

Seriously, tho, the RJ45 jack is strictly for high bandwidth networking using cables called CAT5, CAT5e, or the new CAT6. You can find these cables at your local computer store next to all the USB cables. CAT5e is rated for 100Mbits/s, which is the standard speed for most networking. This works out to about 12.5MB/s, but you're not likely to ever get that much out of a cable or DSL connection! Usually 20-200KB/s is the average internet surfing speed, so you're not likely to need CAT6 cables (rated for 1000Mbits/s = 125MB/s).

Here's the generals of what you'll need for the type of networking you're talking about. You will probably get a DSL modem from your ISP/phone company. This is a little box that plugs into the cord coming out of your phone line. It will then 'spit out' a CAT5e cable to plug into your network. Now here's where you can creative. The network end is the part that your ISP isn't responsible for, which means you have both freedom and no support when setting up this end of things.

The best way of doing this IMO is to buy a router (either wired or wireless). This takes the internet connection coming out of your DSL modem and splits it up so that other computers can use it at the same time. The bandwidth will be split equally among all PC's on the network at any given time - so if only one computer is turned on, you get full speed. If 3 are on, each gets 1/3 of the bandwidth. Anyway, routers are more expensive than hubs or switches (which more or less do the same basic thing) but the benefits of a router (besides being better :p) are: 1) - any computer can use the internet (no 'gateway' or 'main' PC is required to be on) and 2) - it also acts as a hardware firewall. This will give you limited protection against hackers & viruses (because obviously no modem can be bothered with such meaningless tasks :mad: ) but having anti-virus software is still recommended.

Note that if you set-up a wireless network, you won't be using a built-in LAN/RJ45 jack on a mobo. Instead you'll be installing a PCI wireless card.

There you have it. Networking 101. If you need more networking advice & specifics, visit the networking section of the forums.

[squarenuts]

I have just upgrade from a ASUS nforce2 board to a 865 chipset. I went with Abit's IS7-E model. I also picked up a 2.6Ghz Pentium4 (800FSB). I haven't ran any benchmarks yet. Also I am still running DDR 266 ram. So I know I am not seeing the full effect of the 800FSB.

THis was one of the easiest upgrades I have ever done. I didn't even need to reinstall WindowsXP Home. I just pop in the new board and off I went after a few restarts. (anyone know why this wasn't an option when I upgraded to the ASUS board?)

I have heard that only some brands of DDR 400 ram work with some brands of motherboards. So I would go to the web site before ordering.