Question of linux vs Ms

[Mark Miller]

After reading lots of posts and seeing linux on some of my friends machines, I have a question. Why are most of the distributions so much like Windows? I would think that to get a real change that it would have to be really different. Could it be that most of the people writing the code are stuck in 86 chip mode. I agree that Linux is interesting and can be changed quite easily and it not part of the evil empire. But most of what I have read and seen is that it is 'almost as good as Windows"
With XP stability is not such a question, so what is going to drive Linux? For it to hit mainstream I also don't think it will stay free or be so easy to change. I think this part of the problem with MS, too many choices and trying to support legacy hardwaree and software.
Just curious, and is this eventually going to be "Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss"
Mark

[Budfred]

I think the reason it looks so much like Windoze is that a graphic interface is a graphic interface. MacOS looks a lot like WIndoze too, or maybe it is the other way around. I think people who write Linux are trying to make it accessible too and that means making it look somewhat familiar. It also means making it possible to use Windoze software since that is the huge majority available...

I want an alternative to Windoze and I am not adverse to paying for it if I can't get it for free. I am adverse to being pushed around by a monopoly and that remains my main motivation to keep up on what is happening with Linux.

The promise of Linux is that it is evolving and could easily surpass Windoze at any time in ease of use and compatibility. There is no evidence I have seen of Linux trying to corner every computer related market around, while I see M$ doing that aggressively.

I am not sure that I have addressed each of you questions, but these are some of my thoughts on the subject....

[Mark Miller]

Actually your answers were right to the point. There is an interesting article on the pc world web site about hp notebooks in thailand goinfor $428 and the response has been amazing. I think they sold 19000 something right off the bat. Might have to farm it out to other makers.
Could become very interesting.
Mark
http://pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110884,00.asp

[yawningdog]

In one Linux users opinion, Linux will probably never hit the mainstream, at least I hope it won't. You see, Windows is dumbed down software. While this is good for Joe Schmuck, it's bad for Milton Programmer or Thadeus Developer. Ever ridden in a race car? Its loud, smoky, uncomfortable, and requires great skill just to get the confounded thing moving, but if you need to go fast, its your best option. Going for groceries though, you're better off with a Crown Victoria.

If you're doubious as to the future of Linux, you should read the GPL license. That will explain that this belongs to nobody, and therefore nobody can stop me from giving it away. That's what I get out of it anyway, but then again, I'm not a lawyer. Everyone feel free to correct me on this.

Linux desktop managers look like windows for one simple reason. It helps newbies to migrate.

[Rick]

One More Major key Feature

Linux can be Compiled to MY Liking ..
If I do that to Windoze Look out for the M$ Police they will be knocking at my door

Linux is Open source .
Meaning I can modify it ANY way I LIKE..
If others Like what I do to it and want a copy .
I can GIVE it to them Free and even show them how to make even more custom changes to Fit their needs.


I have XP also.
BUT the horse Power it takes to get it to run at a pace that I can endure
Is twice that of making Linux run smooth and crash free..

Windows = Bloat ware
Linux = Flat or thin It runs

[bassman]

MARK,
As already mentioned, Linux is open source. A deeper explination of what is involved with open source can be read here (http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.php).
The fact that the source code must be made available to all people means that software like Linux will always remain low cost and even free. There is no corporation or individual that can lay claim to the rights to it and then monopolize it. The fact that you can go to CompUSA and pick up a copy of a Linux distribution for around $50.00 (??) doen not mean that some corporate fat cats are getting rich. It means that you have paid someone to package it for you.

After reading lots of posts and seeing linux on some of my friends machines, I have a question. Why are most of the distributions so much like Windows?
FIRST, That is because this is how your friends have chosen to view it. When I first started using RedHat, I chose the "Gnome" GUI becuase it was the one of two that I liked. Probably because of familiarity. The newest distros have quite a range of interfaces as I understand it.
SECOND, Because an OS is an OS, a car is a car. If your friend bought a Ford pickup and you bought a Chevy pickup, you would believe these to be two really different vehicles but built to do the same task using the same principals of design.
Both would have 4 wheels, both would have a cab and bed, both would have a steering wheel and blinkers (getting my picture here ;) )

As to the future of Linux, I believe it will continue to grow in popularity but will never be the giant Windows is. It will remain a parallel alternative much as Mac has. It has opened doors to individual choices that were previously limited. Linux is not for everyone much like sports cars are not for everyone. As more people become familiare with Linux, the perception should be that Windows is not for everyone.

Enjoy:cool:

[Mark Miller]

bassman.
Good stuff thanks for the link. My main point is that if linux ever really goes mainstream it will be dumbed down like windows and will be frozen in a set version and will cost money. Ala.. meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Mark:)

[sleddog]

Originally posted by Mark Miller
My main point is that if linux ever really goes mainstream it will be dumbed down like windows and will be frozen in a set version and will cost money. Ala.. meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Mark:)

No offense, but you seem to be missing the entire concept of open source development and Linux.

And Linux is mainstream.

[Mark Miller]

I am not missing the point on open source or that Linux is trying to go main stream. The realty is that except for people I talk to here and on the net I don't know anyone or any organization that I deal with that uses Linux. I am sure there are companies I deal with that do but for the most part it is NOT open source as they would not want anyone [employees] changing it. Stability and continuity are the keys in business.
The whole point may be mute as it seems I.B.M might wind up owning key parts of it. Read John Dovrak coloum in Pc Mag, it's online also.
I of course don't take offense at a good discussion or a different point of view. I actually like it, which of course was the purpose of the thread.
So don't worry about hurting my feelings
MARK

[bassman]

Interesting read (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1115156,00.asp). I would have to assume he really knows what he is talking about, being a reporter and all.;)
I think it is safe to say that everyone in the tech world knows that Linux was derived from Unix code. The idea that Linus was presumptuous enough to steal something from another company blatently and believe the open source community could bury and ignore that unitl it just went away is a tad ridiculous.
It was my understanding from school that Unix was the basis behind the idea of Linux, but they were actualy different enough that there was no true connection. I stand corrected as this artical seems to state that Linux as an entity is in violation of copyright laws, now we just need to find out who owns those rights.
So I suppose the software cops will come-a-knockin on doors to collect license fees from Jimmy and Billy for that spreadsheet prog they wrote for Linux. And my buddy Stan will have to pay his $100.00 for the really cool GUI HE wrote. Stan would probably use some very unappropriate language at this point then tell them not to come back without a subpoena.:D
I think the costs of collecting on something this vast and deversified would be astronomical and ridiculous.
The lawsuites between SCO, IBM, and anyone else who can stick their hands out might generate some cash, but I don't think that is what they are after. The length of time and amount of resources it would take to sort this out, we won't see the "Killing of Linux" any time soon.

The open source community freely gives up any copyright claim for the betterment of the technology. They have developed vast resources and connections and I do not believe they will allow our somewhat technologicly inept judicial system crush thier hopes and dreams simply for the financial prospect of a small group of people.
This reminds me of a tribe of Indians standing on the great plains, shooting arrows at the steam locomotives, and shouting "This is our land, you can't come through here". They just really can't hurt that machine no matter how many arrows they shoot.

Version E: someone tells these folks how much it will actualy cost to win these rights and then how much it will cost to collect on them. They decide the battle is not worth the cost and move back to producing rather then restricting.:p

[mjc]

1. SCO is full of crap.....they, until very recently were the owners/operators of their very own Linux...Caldera. Funny, how since it was a miserable failure on the retail shelves they are now so set against it. They stand to make enough money to pull the company out of the grave if they win....and nothing has been decided yet..

2. Something about this smells very bad.....

David Boies, was the attorney for IBM in its antitrust defense years ago. Boies knows things we don't. SCO retained his new firm when the company felt IBM was pushing AIX code into Linux

Can anyone say CONFLICT OF INTEREST how about ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVELEGE...do you really think this @!%@! is not going to use any/everything he gained in priveleged conversations???

[pentachris]

If you're an experienced uber-geek, maybe you can help Eric Raymond (http://www.catb.org/~esr/no-secrets/) stop the attack on the Linux community.

(I found a link to this page at mageek (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9695).)

The only reason I knew who Eric Raymond (http://www.catb.org/~esr/) was before is because I saw a documentary on Linux and the open source movement on the Sundance channel a few weeks ago. It was very interesting, but I can't remember what it was called.

[juhahin]

Yawningdog said: "In one Linux users opinion, Linux will probably never hit the mainstream, at least I hope it won't."

I have no experience from Linux, but I read in our local newspaper (Finnish) today that a big German city has chosen Linux instead of Microsoft and, accordíng to the article, other German cities may do the same.

[Mark Miller]

Well this all very cool and even though I am a big fan of MS I am also a big fan of free and open. Personally from what I saw happen in the stock market today so is everyone else.
Mark

[Rick]

One more comment about the retail versions of Linux
In all most every case the price you pay for the retail standard version and the advanced server versions .
You are paying for Tech support access
Even the retail version of RedHat includes the source code cd

Linux is mainstream .
In another thread you will find a store about how Microsoft admitted to using Linux in it’s own servers :) (I just can’t find it at the moment )

In Fact Most free versions of Open Source software also have retail versions
A few have extra bells and whistles
Some just include the tech support feature

Open Source / Shareware
Not much difference and a number of large companies have started out shareware

[mjc]

Anybody remember Unreal? Duke Nukem? Escape from Castle Wolfenstein?

[pentachris]

I remember them, mjc.

But I'm not sure what you're getting at. :confused:

[Budfred]

They started as Shareware and made it as retail products...

[Juha H.]

I just saw a report on TV which said that the German city which had chosen Linux instead of Microsoft was Munich.

[iisbob]

but I read in our local newspaper (Finnish) today that a big German city has chosen Linux instead of Microsoft and, accordíng to the article, other German cities may do the same.


As i recall last week on CNET tech news it was reported that they are using Linux, but have WINE installed to run Windows apps-so in effect they just doubled their production costs & tech support mayhem. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

Unix is still offerd for free by the way FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org), one of the original codings. Linux is nice, but give me a true Unix box any day.


" Linux in the mainstream"-well, it's being sold at retailers ,like Bestbuy/CompUSA/Wal-Mart-->if that isnt mainstream i'd like to know what is.:eek: