Installed new ram, and got error msg to replace non ecc memory with ecc memory

[andre79]

i just bought a 512mg pc 133 ram chip and i installed and got the msg to replace non-ecc mem to ecc mem. what does this mean? can i add a 512 mg chip? i currently have a 256mg pc100 chip installed. pls help

[Budfred]

Welcome to http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif

I am not that familiar with the differences between ECC and nonECC RAM, but I know that some machines are picky about what they get. You may be able to reset the motherboard to accept the new RAM, but you will need to tell us more about your system to figure that out. We especially need to know what motherboard/BIOS you are using. If you don't know, we can help you find out.... Let us know...

[YODA74]

What is ECC Memory?
Error Correction Code. This ram is generally very expensive as it
corrects memory errors on the fly. These errors can be as small as 1
bit and are used on very high speed / heavy workload applications.

ECC or Error Checking and Correction memory is a type used originally
for UNIX and now the new mainboards utilizing the Intel 440LX chipset.
ECC is an advanced function which allows the operating system to recover
from memory errors on the fly. This feature is is especially important
to users that require to provide uninterrupted processing while
supporting heavy workloads. Example would be servers….

In order to get ECC you will need to have all your memory modules
replaced with ECC version. The correction is on each module. But
unless you have an extremely heavy "workload" application {ie Autocad}
or you are using your system for a Server, I would save my money and
upgrade something else?

[andre79]

ok i have a:

500 megahertz Intel Pentium III Xenon
256 Megabytes Installed Memory
Windows XP Professional

not sure how to check type of motherboard though

[Budfred]

It seems unlikely that this board would require ECC RAM, so it may be some other problem. Is the new stick of RAM ECC??? If it is, then it is probably incompatible with the other stick that isn't. Or it is possible the old stick is and the new one isn't. It seems likely that one of these 2 possibilities is the problem. If not, I don't know where to go with it next....

[andre79]

all i now that the old stick says ECC and says pc 100 and that one is 256 mg

the new one doesn't say if it is ecc or not just says pc133 sdram and is 512 mg

could it be that the one i have is pc100 and new one is pc133? does that matter?

[andre79]

do i have to switch ecc mode to non ecc mode or vice versa?? if so how in bios?

[Budfred]

If the old one says ECC you can bet the new one isn't unless you paid premium prices, so the problem is trying to run one ECC and one non-ECC at the same time. Take the old one out and run the new one alone, it should work fine then....

The difference in PC100 and PC133 generally doesn't matter. In some of the newest boards it can make a difference, but your board isn't that new....

[andre79]

i have tried that, i left the old one in and installed the new one, turned my comp on, it beeped and it would not load up, so i just installed the new chip and got the error msg to replace non ecc memory with ecc memory,

[andre79]

i have looked at a website it said that a pc100 512 mg chip has ecc as its error checking and the pc133 512mg has non-parity as its error checking, what does that mean?? do i have to change an option in my bios or something?

[Budfred]

I am guessing that you do have to change the BIOS. If you can get into the BIOS, see what settings it has for RAM and change them as needed. If you can't, you will probably need to use the old chip to get the computer going, go into BIOS, make the change, shut down and switch chips....

[andre79]

i don't know what to look for? i've tried but i can't find a menu that says anything about ram.

[Budfred]

I would look for settings for Memory or anything that refers to ECC. Make sure you check all of the subcategories as well as the top layer. Without seeing your BIOS, it is hard to say exactly where it would be.

[andre79]

so do you think it is possible to install the new chip? i just have to change a setting in my bios or something?

[Budfred]

I am not sure that any boards require ECC RAM so it should be possible to install. If it is not working automatically, it will probably when you find the right BIOS setting. You could also just set the BIOS to defaults since it is unlikely that this would include ECC RAM. However, this could change other settings so you might want to write down all the settings you can find before you try it.

[andre79]

if i can't find that option in my bios do i have to update maybe?? does flash bios mean anything to you?

[Sylvander]

QUOTE
Parity checking [using ECC] is built into some [RAM] modules to check for data errors. On systems that require parity RAM, you cannot use non-parity RAM. However, systems that use non-parity RAM allow you to use either parity or non-parity.
Parity checking is being phased out [Pub: 1998] because of improvements in RAM modules, so you probably won’t find parity RAM on newer systems. There are several ways to determine if your system uses parity or non-parity SIMMS:
1. Check the documentation [My m/b manual says 36 & 32 bit non-parity SIMMS are supported].
2. Check your system BIOS. [I’m using non-parity SIMM’s & DIMM’s but cannot find any reference to this in my BIOS]
3. Check for an odd number of DRAM chips on the SIMM or DIMM. The odd chip is used for parity checking.
4. Check for different sized DRAM chips on the SIMM or DIMM. The off-size chips are used for parity checking.
END

I don’t have a setting for this in my BIOS [unless it’s covered by “Auto Configuration : Enabled”], but I have a document on the “BIOS Setup Program” that I put together from the PC-Guide info and it includes this. Send me a personal message asking for a copy and giving an e-mail address to send it to.
The setting is at “Advanced Chipset Features”, “DRAM Parity Checking”.
See this http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/bios/set/advchParity-c.html
Go here http://www.pcguide.com/ref/ram/err_Parity.htm
and click on "Mixing parity/ECC and non-parity memory".

[Sylvander]

Were you supplied with a motherboard manual?
I keep mine within arm’s length of my PC at all times.
Check what it says in the “System Memory” section of the “Memory Configuration” chapter.
Mine goes into great detail about the type of memory and configurations supported.
Check the BIOS Setup section to see if it mentions anything resembling a setting to disable Parity Checking or ECC.
Perhaps in [advanced] “Chipset Features Setup”.
If there turns out to be no way to disable this with the present BIOS then either:

1. QUOTE
If your machine currently uses parity memory and has no way to disable parity checking in the BIOS, you must use either proper parity memory in the machine, or if you must, false parity memory to fool the system into thinking it has all parity memory. If you put regular non-parity memory into a parity system, the machine will halt shortly after it starts to boot.
END OF QUOTE

2. You could try to find out what a BIOS upgrade will offer, or just do the upgrade anyway and see if there appears an appropriate setting.
See this http://tinyurl.com/ewnp for how to do it.

[Sylvander]

Hello Andre.

You were a bit naughty sending me a personal message giving the link below to your PC’s pdf manual document.
I’d rather you didn’t do that but put it openly in the thread for all to see and have the opportunity to learn and contribute.
http://www.intergraph.com/ITservices/sysdocs/workstation/dha031600.pdf
Click on "Motherboard Features" then scroll down.

I found on:
PAGE 21
MEMORY
The BIOS automatically detects memory type and size.
The motherboard supports the following memory features:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.3v unbuffered or registered (not mixed) 100 MHz ECC SDRAM DIMM’s ONLY.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hence you CANNOT use non-ECC memory.
That’s my reading of the situation.
We need some other opinions as a check.

PAGE 57
MAIN MENU
TABLE 17
ECC Configuration > Options = None > This specifies the ECC Memory Configuration.

[Budfred]

It appears you are correct Sylvander, the board will only take ECC RAM and the question then becomes how much is it worth to you, andre79, to upgrade the RAM. It is going to be pricey....

[andre79]

is there an option i can check off that will make take non- ecc mem in the bios? i am using phoenix bios 4.0 release 6.0. but i can't find the option to do it, so i'm thinking i may have to upgrade the bios so it will give the option to do it. someone told me about flashing the bios.
any suggestions? alos what type of motherboard do i have? ms440gx?? or is that my chipset? how can i check?

[malcore]

I think you may be out of luck. This is an Intel workstation board and an older one. They don't give support or offer any new upgrades anymore. You must use PC100 ECC Ram.


See

here (http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/workstation/ms440gx/lk_issues.htm)

[Sylvander]

For what it's worth:

You board is the Intel MS440GX.
Initial Production BIOS = 4M4SG0X0.86E
[These details were got using the pdf document you gave the link to]

To select a BIOS update specify the O/S here http://tinyurl.com/ez6q

I selected "All O/S" and latest update, thus http://tinyurl.com/ez6s
[But you MUST make your own decision about which to use and take responsibility for the choice.]

Follow the instructions in the "Readme.txt" file.

But I wouldn't expect this to allow you to use non-ECC memory.

[andre79]

what if i updated my bios to the latest one in the intel website? i think then i would get to select the option that changes my ecc. what do you guys think? anyone upgraded there bios before? is it worth it for me to do it?

[andre79]

in my bios i can't find the chipset feature menu anywhere. i have a phoenixbios 4.0 release 6.0, motherboard is ms440gx. i want to change my ecc configuration. just bought a 512mb sdram pc 133 and get msg replace non-ecc mem with ecc mem. currently have a 256mb pc100 ecc ram installed. do i have to update my bios?

[mjc]

If it doesn't specifically say that it gives the option to use non-ecc memory then it isn't worth it.

[Budfred]

It isn't going to happen andre79, it is time to give it up and either get some ECC RAM, give up on increasing RAM or get a new motherboard/CPU... Flashing the BIOS at this point would be taking a risk that could result in a dead computer and will almost certainly not result in a computer that can use NonECC RAM.....

[andre79]

i found a update on the intel website for my bios, i think if i update my bios it will let me switch ecc mem on and off. what do you guys think of updating a bios? anyone done it before? is it hard?

[Budfred]

I have done it and it is not hard, it is just tricky. If you stop for any reason while in process, your BIOS is probably fried. If you put in the wrong BIOS, you are probably fried. Make sure that this is correct for your BIOS, DO NOT use one that isn't correct just because you think it will fix your problem with the RAM. Also, unless it says it will allow you to make the adjustment, it probably won't. The instructions for the update should be on the same site as the update itself, follow them closely.

[andre79]

ok i found the file i need to upgard the bios and this is what it says:

BIOS Upgrade Instructions
-------------------------

Creating a Bootable Floppy (You must use a DOS system to create the
bootable floppy)
--------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Place an unformatted floppy diskette in the floppy drive and format
the floppy using the /S option. example: "format a: /s"

2. Alternatively, place a formatted floppy in the floppy drive and use
the "sys" command. example: "sys a:"

Upgrading to the Latest BIOS
-----------------------------------
1. Be sure you have downloaded the correct BIOS file from the BBS.

2. Note the settings of the SETUP parameters. Enter SETUP by hitting
the F1 key during boot up. Write down the settings for each of
parameters. At the end of the BIOS update process you should set the
parameters to default values by hitting the F5 key, and then
re-enter these values you have written down.

3. Follow the instructions (above) for creating a bootable floppy to
create a bootable floppy diskette.

4. Insert the bootable floppy into drive a:.

5. Extract the contents of the BIOS file you downloaded, into a
temporary directory. You simply type the filename (without the
extension), for example "10005AZ0". Three new files will be created:
LICENSE.TXT, BIOINSTR.TXT (this file), and BIOS.EXE.

6. Extract the contents of the BIOS.EXE file onto the bootable floppy.
simply type the filename (without the extension) followed by a: ,
for example "BIOS A:".

7. Place the bootable floppy containing the BIOS into drive a: of the
system that you want to upgrade and boot the system while the floppy
diskette is in the drive.

8. Press ENTER to go to the Main Menu.

9. Highlight the option that reads "Update Flash Memory From a File" and
press ENTER.

10. Highlight the option that reads "Update System BIOS" and press
ENTER.

11. At the screen that asks you to enter the path and name of the file,
press TAB to highlight the file name and press ENTER.

12. The system will give you a warning that BIOS is about to be changed.
If you wish to continue simply hit ENTER.

13. Once the BIOS has been successfully loaded, remove the floppy
diskette from the drive. Hit ENTER at the prompt to reboot the
system.

14. Check to make sure the BIOS version is the new version as the system
reboots.

15. Enter Setup by pressing the F1 key during boot up. Once in Setup,
press the F5 to set the parameters back to default values.
Re-enter the values you wrote down at the beginning of this process.
If you do not set the CMOS values back to defaults using the F5
key, the system may function erratically.

Note: you may encounter a CMOS Checksum error or other problem after
reboot. Try shutting down the system and booting up again. CMOS
checksum errors require that you enter Setup, check your settings, save
your settings, and exit Setup.

i formatted a disk and it's telling its a FAT system does that matter cause my comp is NTFS.

[Budfred]

I am not certain, but I don't think it matters since you won't be booting into Windoze or even using the hard drive to flash the BIOS.

[andre79]

when i am trying to update my bios i can't find the option that reads "update flash memory from a file"

[Budfred]

That means you probably didn't set up the floppy properly. Is it a bootable floppy???

[andre79]

no i don't think i did. i don't uderstand step 5 and 6, how do i make a temp dir. cause when i extract the bios in to ther a: it says disk full

[Budfred]

You make the temporary directory on your hard drive and then apparently you use RUN in the start menu to extract to the bootable floppy. It may be worthwhile to start over creating a bootable floppy and then extracting the files to it. Again, make sure it is bootable or it won't work...

[andre79]

ok i made a directory called c:\bios update and extracted the bios.exe file into that dir, now how do i update my bios from that dir? and how do i get a bootable floppy disk from that dir?

[Budfred]

First you make the bootable floppy, the first two steps in your earlier post tell you how to do that, just follow the instructions....

Once you have the bootable floppy: I am not sure why they say it the way they do. What I would do is open Windows Explorer, find your BIOS.EXE file and Right Click to open a menu. Choose Open To and select drive A:. That should install the BIOS install program onto the boot floppy. Follow the rest of the instructions to do the flash.

That said, since you are really having some trouble with basics are you sure you really want to go through with the flash? Have you confirmed that it will do what you want it to do?? If you do, good luck.

[Sylvander]

Here’s my guess at what instructions 5 & 6 mean:

5. When you download the “BIOS file” it will either be a “.zip” file which will mean you’ll need “Winzip” to extract the contents; or it will be a “Self Extracting [Win]zip File” in which case you do not require a copy of Winzip to extract the contents.
Now extract the contents of the file to a temporary folder with the same name as the file.
The folder could have any name you like but it makes sense to name it after the file.
The file [and therefore the folder] might be named 10005AZ0 if thats the name you discover has been given the file.
The file has an extension but the folder does not.
The BIOS file holds three files named LICENSE.TXT, BIOINSTR.TXT, BIOS.EXE.
When you have extracted these to the folder you made you go to instruction 6.

6. “BIOS.EXE” is a “Self Extracting Zip File”.
When you right click on it and select “Open” [the contents of the file will include] a Winzip extraction program [which] will start the process of extracting the “payload” of contained files.
You must [somehow] tell it to extract the file named “BIOS” to the disk in the A: drive.
There may be a command window displayed to allow you to enter a command to achieve this.
The command to enter is “BIOS A:” or “bios a:”
It may allow you instead to highlight the file and “Browse” to the destination.
This is guesswork since none of us have seen this particular program in operation.

[andre79]

ok i have opened the bios file i downloaded, it is called bios_18.exe. and it installed a whole bunch of files in my c:\bios update dir. now i see the bios.exe in that dir is that the only file i need on the bootable disk or is there more? the files in the dir are autoexec.bat, beep.com, bioinstr.txt, bios.exe, bios.rec, bios_18.exe( file i downloaded of internet and opened) iflash.exe, license.txt, mk_bootz.exe, p18-0045.bI1-p18-0045.bI7, pl-0045.bI0, readme.txt, relnotes.doc. thats a total of 18 files 1.86 mb. all of those file will note fit on a single disk, so what files do i need on the bootable disk?

[andre79]

ok i finally extracted all those files to boot disk. now when i restart my comp with the boot disk in a: drive and it trys to boot off a: i get the msg "remove disk or other media press any key to restart" do i have to be in my bios to boot the boot disk and if so i can't an option that says to update flash memory. what gives???

[Sylvander]

I went to http://tinyurl.com/ez6s and downloaded the latest update “BIOS_20.exe” to a temporary folder on my C: drive, right clicked and selected “Open” and the following three files [“License.txt, Bioinstr.txt, Bios.exe] were created in that folder just as the “Readme.txt” file said.

I selected a boot disk I had spare, put it in the Floppy Drive.

3. I right-clicked on the “Bios.exe” file and Clicked “Extract to” and Winzip opened and offered me the opportunity to specify where the files should be extracted to. I specified the A: drive and clicked ok and the files were extracted to the boot disk.
I could only select “Extract To” because I have Winzip installed. When I selected “Open” the prog gave instructions to enter the command “BIOS A:” but I couldn’t get that to work. It would only accept a “y” [to agree to extract] and then extracted the files to the same folder on the C: drive as held “Bios.exe”. Perhaps if you put “Bios.exe” in a folder by itself, then extracted the files then copied all except Bios.exe to the floppy that would work.

4. The files totalled 1.15 MB. JOB DONE!

5. You MUST read bioinstr.txt and in particular record the BIOS setup settings before you flash your BIOS.

The P20-0050.doc file included in the list of updates:
P03-0018
Removed ECC memory SETUP option. The system now requires ECC memory.
P02-0017
ECC/Non-ECC removed from Setup, Only ECC system memory allowed.

Later updates did not change this so it looks like you’re stuck with using ECC memory.

Either that or you go back to version P01-0016.

[andre79]

ok i downloaded the file called bios_18.exe and my bios version is 4M4SG0X0.86E.0045.P18.9903081821 now i'm guessing if i update my bios it will update to the one i already have, syvander he downloaded bios_20.exe is that the last bios i need?

[andre79]

also when i open the relnotes.doc file in the bios_18.exe i found something that says this:
P02-0017
• Boot time for certain ATAPI devices reduced.
• Locked cmos.
• Hang when Win98 or Win95 shutdown fixed, related to ATAPI/IDE devices.
• ACPI ring indicator functional.
• Hard Disk Drive menu corruption fixed.
• ECC/Non-ECC removed from Setup, Only ECC system memory allowed.
• Error message for memory decreased since last boot added.

the part about ecc removed from setup does that mean if i update my bios i will not get the option to configure between ecc and non ecc? i thought the whole point about this was the i can select an option to turn off ecc in my bios.

[Sylvander]

Quite so Andre, but both Budfred and me were telling you there was every indication you would not be able to get the use of non-ECC memory.

I repeated that just a few minutes ago and said that perhps you'd need to go back to release 16 to achieve it and who knows what effect that would have.
You'd lose all the upgrades.

[mjc]

Right....that update removes the ability to choose between the two, with ECC being the only option.

[Budfred]

Once again, are you sure you created a bootable disk before installing the flash files on it??? You HAVE to follow one of the 2 steps in that info you posted earlier to create a boot disk. If you did, it should boot from the floppy and then produce the menu that you need to proceed.
As for all the files that appeared when you opened the main flash file, that is inconsistent with what the instructions said was going to happen, so I would open that README.txt file and see if it explains. Since there is an Autoexec.bat file in there, it is possible that it is designed to set up a boot disk and the earlier instructions you posted are not up to date.

I just noticed that there are some other posts responding to your concerns from mjc and Sylvander... I agree with what they are saying and it appears even more unlikely that this flash will do what you want...

[andre79]

this is a little off topic, i am just installing enter the matrix on my comp. it takes 4 discs to install it, on the seocond and third disc i get the msg "wrong volume on drive" what the hell does that mean and what do i have to do?

[Budfred]

Sounds like you may be trying to install the disks in the wrong order. Make sure that you have the right disk and try a different one if you get the message again.

[andre79]

ok i installed the fisrt cd no problem and the end of the secind got msg wrong volume in drive, so i put in disk 1 and it told to put in disk 3 so i did, so started to install then towards the of disk 3 got msg agan wrong volume put disk 1 in again and then it just crashed on me

[Budfred]

It sounds like the install is asking you to put in the next disk, so put in the next one instead of putting in disk 1 and see if that works.

Or it could be that the evil forces of the Matrix are trying to prevent you from gaining access because you are actually Neo!!!!:eek: :eek: :D

[andre79]

ok so if i upgraded my bios and my comp still doesn't take the non-ecc ram then do i uprade my motherboard? i'm thinking of the latest pentium 4 motherboard or latest amd, but i have 64 mb pci nvidia graphics card not agp, do pentium 4 or amd take pci graphics card. cause i don't wanna buy a new one. also another reason to upgrade would be cause yesterday i noticed enter the matrix recommended at least pentium 4 or amd 750 ghz comp. i have pentium 3 xenon 500 mhz.

[andre79]

or do i upgrade my processor, is there a difference if i upgrade my motherboard or processor?

[mjc]

Considering that you are looking at a P4, you will have to upgrade your motherboard. Your current board is not capable of taking a P4.

[Budfred]

As you asked in your other thread, you probably won't be able to install the Matrix game on this system. And, as mjc indicates, you would need a new motherboard if you get a P4 and you will need a P4 if you get a P4 motherboard....