ICS using dial up in 2k can't see host or call on dialup

[videobruce]

I have read the M$ KB articles on ICS and dial up, but can't get the client to call the dial up on the Host (Gateway) computer through a wireless NIC/router setup.

I looked at the settings and both are on the same domain name, both have the IP address set for automatic. ICS is enabled on the host.

The setup is:

Win 2k
Host (Gateway, tower box) wired NIC
Client (Laptop box) wireless NIC

Compaq CP-2W router.
Dial up ISP.

Host can see client, but client CAN'T see host or call up the dialup.
Dialup works from host ok.

What am I missing? Hope this makes sense.

[Ghost_Hacker]

The best way to use wireless and ICS is to have a wireless nic in the host PC. By having your ICS connection go thru a WAP/router you throw NAT into the mix.

There are plenty of posts in the forums that will lead you thru troubleshooting why one computer can't see another.

However, have you tried typing "\\ipaddress" into your "run" window? (where ipaddress = the IP of the other computer your trying to connect to). Do not use net 'hood for troubleshooting "can't see" problems, instead use the "run" window to see if you can directly connect to other computers on your LAN.


Good Luck :)

[videobruce]

I just got done with a hour long 'chat' session with one of their level 1 support techs and basically made it worse.

Neither box can see each other, but both can ping each other.
He gave me the 888 # but it is out of warrenty and I'm not paying $$$ for something that I shouldn't. The router is setup for DSL/cable internet access only for starters.

I did call the 888 # and he did tell me that you can't have a dialup and a NIC on the same box without disabling something.

He suggested Wingate or Winproxy. Things that I think I have heard of but have no clue about.

[Ghost_Hacker]

I did call the 888 # and he did tell me that you can't have a dialup and a NIC on the same box without disabling something.

This is wrong, you can have many types of network interfaces with out one interfering with the other. (else ICS wouldn't work for anyone :) ) Next time you might ask for a Level 2 Tech if you can. That clod doesn't have a clue :D


Did you try my "run" suggestion?

You are not using the DSL/cable interface are you? Or is that interface just connected to your LAN?

Have you setup your link like this? (see link below)

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/ics/ics_win2k_install_dup.htm

[videobruce]

I will have to go back and redo everything from scratch. It's all messed up.

This isn't my setup, I wouldn't consider buying Comtrash (or Gateway, or Dell etc.).

[Ghost_Hacker]

heheheh....


Well.... some things to keep in mind then are....

1st I would give the laptop a static IP and place that IP in your WAP's (wireless access point IE: your dsl/cable router) "DMZ" zone. Thus removing it from the WAP's firewall rules. (hopefull :) )

2nd I would setup the WAP, not the laptop, to get it's IP from the ICS host's DHCP server. In your case you need to setup the WAP to get it's IP from the ICS host. The ICS host will "talk" to the WAP and the WAP will pass alone that "conversation" to whatever computer is in it's DMZ area.


This is assuming that your WAP's DSL/Cable interface is connected to the LAN. Post back if that is not the way you have it setup.


Good Luck :)

[videobruce]

Some of that is getting over my head.

Let me go over the setup, as I don't think it is too unusual:

Main box (Gateway or Host) Tower w/ wired NIC
2nd box (Client) Laptop w/ wireless NIC
DSL/Cable 4 port wire/ one port wireless router

Wire connection between the tower and the router
Wireless between the Laptop and the router.
Dialup modem on both, BUT only the tower (host) has the phone line.

All of this so the Laptop remains portable with internet access.

The best I had was both boxes saw each other, but I had to start the dialup on the host, but the client still couldn't see the internet connection.

[Ghost_Hacker]

I see...OK forget everything I have said so far, it doesn't apply to your situation.

When you get things set back up, check that you can ping each computer. You don't need to be able to see it in net 'hood or anything since ICS doesn't work like file sharing.

The link I posted last time has plenty of information on setting up the host and the client. I would input IP information manually on the laptop, this way your sure that it has the right IP and the right default gateway. This last setting is most important because without the right default gateway your laptop won't be able to see the internet. Also don't forget to setup the ICS host's NIC to use the "dial on demand" setting. That will allow the host to "dial out" to the internet whenever the laptop needs to open an internet connection.


Agian it's all explained at that web site.


Hope this helps :)

[videobruce]

I did have the host's dialup set for ICS (both boxes were checked). I'm pretty sure the Gateway was the same.

Just how/where/why is VPN used?

[Ghost_Hacker]

A VPN is used when you want to tunnel "private" information thru a public medium, like the Internet or the airwaves. The tunnel can provide authenication and/or encryption for the traffic that passes thur it. It's purely a design option whether or not you wish to implement one.

Here's some links that explain in more detail:


Q25733- Setting up a VPN between 2 Windows 2000 pro computers. (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=257333)

Configuring a VPN solution on Windows 2000 (http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/whitepapers/configur_vpn_solution.asp)

[videobruce]

Way over my head and surely not needed, but thanks anyway.

Well I'm back to square one. Both boxes can see each other but the client can't connect to the dialup and the browser on the host has to manually dial first! This is the best I can do just as before.

I looked over that link which I have seen before and everything was done that way and it still doesn't work. I don't know if it something to do with the router or not. The router is designed for DSL/Cable interent access and I had to enter my DSL settings to even get me into the routers menu (I could of used bogus numbers, but the data is only good at my home since it is DSL so it didn't matter). My guess this is the problem, but don't know what to do about ir since there isn't anything about ICS here. It is set for DHCP and there is a option to disable that.

Here is Compaq's link:

http://www29.compaq.com/falco/doc_result.asp?Model=3573&Os=93

[Ghost_Hacker]

You should turn off the router's DHCP and use either the ICS one or just input IP info by hand.


Seems your problem is the "dial on demand" function of ICS, since it all works fine if the host dials first. Have I got that right?

EDIT Again I have to point out that the best layout for wireless "ICS" is to have a wireless NIC in the host. Then you would place the wireless network in "ad-hoc" mode. A wireless access point should work, but a wireless router might not. Also USB modems have been reported to cause problems with ICS. I'll have to dig a little deeper.

[Ghost_Hacker]

After some futher research I found that your DSL/cable wireless router does bridge the wireless and wired networks into one LAN. So communications between the 2 computers shouldn't be hurt by the wireless router.

If demand dialing is the only thing not working your client may just have to live it. You might check that your modem isn't the cause of your problem, like I posted before, some modems ( and ISPs !!! If you where using PPPoE, which in this case your not )do cause dial-on-demand to fail, but other than that your setup is correct.

[videobruce]

This is a internal PCI modem in the host. Yes it does bridge the two different types of NIC's.
Both units can see each other.

I do feel this is the problem. The router was made for DSL/Cable access, not Dialup. I will look into turning off DHCP, but I'm not good in this department.. I find it easier to navigate the registry than to do networking other than basic stuff which this isn't AFAIK.

[Ghost_Hacker]

Hmmmmm...but if I have read your post correctly the DLS/Cable intreface isn't being used. The pc is connected to one of the switched ports in the rear of the device, so the DLS/cable setup or lack of one shouldn't be a factor. (After all the network would still work if you unpluged the cable or DSL connection).

Now, I agree that a DSL/Cable wireless box wasn't the way to go for this setup, still in your current network it's acting more like a pure wireless access point then a dsl/cable router.

EDIT

Still I have to add that I have no first hand knowledge of the router your using, so even though, on paper, it should work in real life who knows????

[videobruce]

Correct, the DSL/Cable isn't being used.
Again this isn't my system, it was orginally used with Cable, so there wasn't a problem. He dropped Cable interent for dialup (if you can believe that) for $$ reasons. For the cost 8 packs of cigarettes a month he could of had his Cable back!

I had to enter my own DSL info into the setup menu so I could even use the interface menu of the router which doesn't work in Opera and can't be found on the host browser (Mozilla) when you type in "cp.home", only from the Laptop browser. Real lame setup!
Also telnet doesn't work with this router either, you have to use Idiot Exploiter, Nutscape or Mozilla (you can see what I DON'T use!)
The browser menu isn't that bad with nice options, better than the older Netgear router I have (that IS accessible with telnet). I do have the latest firmware update (yes,Comtrash DOES do a update ONCE in a while) which added features.

[videobruce]

The guy from Compaq I talked to said I need to run NetProxy or NetGate for this to work. I looked at one or the other sites since only one came up and the manual for the program was 290 pages long..............!

I don't think so!

[Ghost_Hacker]

Yikes :D


If it where me I would just tell the client to dump the DSL/cable wireless box and go with a wireless nic in the host PC. (But if he's cheap he'll proably have you go thru every possible configuration/setting change before he gives up. :) )

[videobruce]

I'm going to try to play around with the router settings. I'm sure it's there (so I hope).

[Ghost_Hacker]

You might find this helpfull. The text in bold might apply to your situation.

"Skip this section if you prefer to proceed directly to my experience installing my new DSL service. But I still needed Dial-Up until my DSL installation was completed, and I may need it again if I ever have technical DSL problems. Most readers with DSL hope they will use Dial-Up rarely, if ever, and it will soon become a distant nightmare.

Anyway, at this point, my network was functioning well (as I recall), without having to do much to my other computer (the former ICS "client"). But ICS was turned off on the "host," and when I tried to turn it back on, and reboot, it announced that it was turning itself off again. (To turn ICS on or off, access Internet Options, either from the Control Panel or from a menu within Internet Explorer, select the Connections tab, under Lan Settings click Sharing, and then check or clear "Enable" Internet Connection Sharing - and reboot!)

The problem was that the router's default setting is as a DHCP host - but ICS demands that its "host" computer, the one with the dial-up modem in it, be the DHCP host - and there can be only one host dynamically assigning IP addresses. The router won, the computer dropped DHCP, and ICS wouldn't work.

This was fairly easily remedied by turning DHCP off on the router and on on the ICS host computer (by turning ICS "on" as described above). To do this, I changed the computer's address to something else (such as 192.168.0.200, or "Automatic"), as I already mentioned. Then I could use my network again, and I needed to be able to this to get to the router, to change its address to some other number (such as 192.168.0.xxx, where "xxx" is some number other than "1"). Next I changed my ICS host computer's address back to where it started, 192.168.0.1 (rebooting everything, including the router, along the way every time you change something, whether the computer asks you to or not - tedious). (Remember what you chose as "xxx" - you'll need it later!)

It wasn't quite that easy, because this particular router uses an Internet browser interface, and the instruction book says that recent versions of either the Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator will work just fine, by opening page "http://192.168.0.1." My Explorer (v5.5), however, did not work just fine - it kept trying to log on to the Internet, whereas, of course, my router is on my local network - not "out there." Once on the Net, it failed to connect to anything useful. As usual, I thought I was doing something wrong, so persisted for too long - I finally tried Navigator, and it brought up the router's configuration screens perfectly. So did Opera. (I keep information about updating browsers elsewhere.) Sometimes, even the browsers which work for this still ask if they may "log on," but I just say "no," and then they behave. Anyway, from one of the pages in the configuration routine, I changed the router's IP ("address"). (Changing the "host" computer's IP is done from the network applet, as described much earlier.)

Also, another important step, now that my "host" computer and the router were talking to each other again, was to turn off DHCP in the router's configuration utility. Reboot it and the "host" computer, and voilà, ICS was back. The host could at least talk to itself, and perform dial-up correctly - but did not at first connect with the other ("client") computer at all, whether for ICS purposes or general networking. So the "Sharing" of ICS was only sharing with itself. Rebooting didn't help me here! What I initially thought finally worked (after much wailing, gnashing off teeth, rending of garments and a modicum of sitting around in sack-cloth and ashes), was to add a "Gateway" to both computers' network settings. The confounding variable was that later I removed all gateways, with no ill effects - so I seriously doubt my own conclusions. But in case you're stuck ICS-less at this stage, I'll go through adding gateways just for good measure, in case it helps.

First, leave all the other settings as described above for ICS configuration. In the NIC's TCP/IP Properties applet, under the Gateway tab, in the New Gateway window, I typed in "192.168.0.xxx" ("xxx" is described above - the router's address), clicked the Add button, clicked OK a coupla' times, and rebooted. I did this for both computers,and it worked! Yippee! (Your mileage may vary! Good luck.)

So, however, if I could later remove the Gateways without disabling anything, what else might it have been? Well, the best I've come up with so far is that the order of rebooting matters. Whatever is your DHCP server, whether the router, or your ICS host computer, might need to be turned on before anything else. For example, if I turn on my ICS "client" computer alone, it doesn't get an IP (or specifically, its NIC's TCP/IP doesn't get an IP) whether the router is on or not, because the DHCP server - the ICS host - is not running and of course therefore not accessible on the network. You would think that they could find each other later, but apparently not, or at least not always, or not reliably. (I wonder if they can if the Gateway is specified.) Anyway, the combinations and permutations are endless, but at least it seems safe to always have the DHCP server, whether computer or router, running before turning on any "nodes" which require dynamic (or "Automatic") IP addressing. "



The whole paper can be found here : http://www.ctlow.ca/HomeNetwork/

[videobruce]

I will read all of that. I see that the article itself isn't for 2k, just ME and earlier.

[videobruce]

This menu item:
Access Point Setup;
that switches it from a-
Internet Router+Wireless Access Point or a-
Access Point Only (disable DHCP Server)
I switched to the 2nd entry and it changed the Internet Connection Method screen from PPPoE to Static IP.
I tried entering in the IP of the host (192.168.1.11) as the "Internet IP", "Default Gateway" and the "DNS Server", but it would let me stating it had a "Invalid DNS Server address". I also tried 192.168.1.1 as the DNS Server address, but that didn't work either.

Then I set the DNS address to 0.0.0.0 and it complainted that the "IP address can't be the local host address or multicast address".
The default setting of the IP address is 127.0.0.1 and default gateway is 127.0.0.2

If I change the IP address of the wired NIC to 127.0.0.1 would that work?

All of these options and it can't do a (what I consider) a simple dialup connection!

BTW, $$ is a issue also since that is why he dropped Cable.............

[Ghost_Hacker]

The DNS IP for the router is unimportant since that interface isn't been used. But if you want to put one in, just use the ISP DSN server's address. The routers other IP information should be valid for the network it's on. Enter that info as you would for any other computer being placed on that network.


Normally I would not change the wired NIC to an address of 127.0.0.1 this is the loopback address and will not work for communications with other computers. But the router may let you put that in for the "old" DSL interface. If so you can do it, since this interface isn't being used.


Frankly, I wouldn't waste any more time with this guy. If he's cheap he's proably not paying for all this extra work. :D

[videobruce]

I was doing it for 2 reasons; knowledge and he's a friend.

I'm about to give up on this I hate to say. I'm going to tell him to use one of those wireless phone jacks and use the dialup in the Laptop instead.