Hooking up Front USB?

[drdan]

I have a chieftek case which is supposed to have connections for front USB 2.0 The case came with absolutely no documentation. The chieftek site had some documentation but it does not correspond with my MSI connectors or manual.

Does anyone know how to hook these up? I have included screenshots of the chieftek instructions and the MSI instructions. It looks like there are the right number of wires altogether but names, slot numbering and location of dead or missing slot is different.

CHIEFTEK DOCUMENT

http://drdansinfo.com/Chieftek_screenshot1.JPG

MSI MANUAL

http://drdansinfo.com/MSI_screenshot2.JPG

[iisbob]

Looks like you should go 1-red 2-orange 3-white 4-yellow 5-green 6-gray 7-blue 8-black then 10-brown this is assuming of course that the plug wires are independant and not on a bracket.

[BigBlue66]

The VCC pins on the USB header on the board correspond to the +5V (red and orange) wires on the leads from the case. The USB +/- pins on the USB header correspond to the D +/- wires on the case leads.

Just start with the red and orange wires first. Then connect the D +/- wires to the USB +/- headers and finish up with a ground on each side (Black and Brown)

Give it a shot. It's not as hard as you might think.

[drdan]

There are two reasons why I didn't want to just start experimenting. One, the "empty" slot was in different spots in each illustration and I didn't know how to compensate or rearrange the wires. Two, I didn't know if I would cause damage to the motherboard if they were hooked up wrong. Looks like iisbob laid it out for me exactly once I figued out which numbering system he was using (MSI's). I am assuming this also means that if the layout happens to be wrong and I power back up it won't hurt anything?

[drdan]

Well, I hooked them up first with no ground on 10 as Budfred suggested and it didn't work. When I plugged in a device it acted kind of like something had been plugged in but nothing appeared in "my computer" or device manager. So I connected the ground to 10 as iisbob said and this time when I plugged in the device the computer completely froze. So I pulled it out of the USB slot. I turned the computer off and went to unplug the connections and there was a burned smell coming from the computer. Now the computer randomly reboots once in a while and the processor temp, which used to stay rock solid at 43-45C no matter what I was doing now shoots up to the high 50's as soon as there is any significant processing going on. It takes less than a minute for it to go from 44 to 56C.

I'm thinking this is not good. Anyone want to take a stab at diagnosing what got damaged?

[Budfred]

First thing... I didn't suggest anything on this thread, I am no good at reading those weird diagrams without the motherboard in front of me to compare to...:rolleyes: :)

That said, someone here suggested taking the most suspect components and putting them in a plastic bag, then let them sit for a while. Eventually open each bad and stick your nose in. The one that smells crispy is the one you need to replace. Any number of things could be the problem, but I would most suspect RAM. Also, I would check capacitors on the board to make sure that none are burst, leaking or bulging.

[joea64]

Also, I would check capacitors on the board to make sure that none are burst, leaking or bulging.

You can say that again - in fact, I will say that again, after all the trouble I had last week because of swollen capacitors. In fact, I would go so far now as to say that anytime you have a problem with repeated spontaneous reboots, BSOD's and/or freezes where your system used to be reasonably stable, one of the very first things you should do is to look at your motherboard to see if the capacitors are in good shape. This applies particularly if your motherboard was made by a Taiwanese company between 2000 and 2002. Capacitors using a bad formula for the electrolytic solution that fills them have been discovered to be responsible for a surprising number of system failures that had been thought to be due to other (software or hardware) causes.

-Joe-

[drdan]

Sorry Budfred, my mind saw the b and made a jump to a conclusion. Dang, I didn't think about memory, now I'm more depressed. It hasn't rebooted in a couple of days now but it sure goes up and down in temperature. Anybody know what could cause that?

[Budfred]

It could be that your CPU fan and/or other fans are what burned and that would reduce cooling. Have you run with the case open to see if fans seem to be working ok?

[drdan]

Cpu fan is working and seems to going up and own in speed in response to temp.

[Steve]

Doc,

I'd suggest taking the computer apart and look very carefully for signs of a bad part. Burn marks, swollen capacitors, etc. Maybe even put each part in a bag like Budfred suggested.

Your temps have seemed high to me from the beginning. While you have the motherboard out I'd take off the heatsink and take a look. See if there are any problems there. Clean the heatsink, lap it again and use some fresh Arctic Silver 3 and put it back together. Keep in mind any warranty implications with using AS3.

If you haven't identified any bad parts, put it back together, without the troublesome USB, and run it hard. Scandisk, defrag, and a burn-in program like SiSoft Sandra has. If you have any bad parts this should find them. While you're testing it watch the temps.

If nothing has failed, you can at least have confidence in your components again.

Then I'd start thinkin' hard about how much I wanted USB2...;)

[drdan]

Thanks for the advice Steve. I have given up on the Front USB but this was not really about USB 2.0 vs. 1.1 I don't think. The USB 2.0 connections in back are working fine. Actually having onboard USB 2.0 was a big factor in upgrading to begin with so it would be important to me anyway.

I want the same fast, smooth system back that I originally built and plan to get that even if I have to replace everything. I will use the different advice to try to find bad parts. I was hoping someone might know what part had been keeping the temperatures so stable before as it seems that would be the place to start.

You think an unvarying 43-45C is too hot? I am using the stock heatsink/thermal pad which came with the retail P4. Which proccessors will void the warranty with artic silver? How would plugging in the USB connector change the contact of the heatsink and processor?

[Budfred]

Plugging in the USB ports wouldn't directly effect the heatsink/CPU interface, but if it caused some sort of surge that superheated the CPU briefly, that could effect things.

AMD voids the warranty for using anything other than their standard hsf/thermal pad. However, from reading their warranty info recently, they really don't much like warranties. You will need to check the Intel warranty to see if it makes a difference. I suspect it doesn't since their CPUs are better protected the way they are built.

Running in the 40s is okay, but a little on the warm side. You would have to see what happened under a heavy load like gaming to see if there would be a problem. Since you are now in the 50s though, it suggests that there is a problem. I was just checking my 1.3 P4 today and it was running at 30C at idle. Now that is going to be a cooler chip anyway, so it doesn't compare well, but I did use Arctic Silver to set it up, so that may be part of the reason it is so cool. According to BIOS, it is cooler than the system right now.

Other than doing what Steve suggested of taking things apart and testing everything, I don't know how to find what got hurt and is causing the extra heat. I suspect that the problem with the USB ports was a short. If the problem was the mobo itself, you may want to RMA it.

[Steve]

Yes. I think those temps are on the high side of OK. I'm using the same processor and get temps 10 deg. c. below yours. I know AMD doesn't like it if you use AS3, but I don't really know if Intel is the same. I'd use it warranty or not.

I don't think that the USB problem had anything to do with you temp. fluctuations. I think it is a seperate issue. And besides, taking it apart and putting it back together is part of the "fun" I spoke of in another thread.

It's your first one so I'm glad you're not to discouraged...:)

[drdan]

Steve are you saying that the temperature flucuations suddenly starting after plugging in that misconected USB port and getting the computer freeze, burned smell and random rebooting is simply coincidental? Before that I was deliberately trying to do a lot of different processing at once to test the hyperthreading function and the temp stayed absolutely stable. I would not move more than a degree or two no matter what I tried. It may have been generally higher than if I was using AS3 and a better heatsink but it was stable. Now it's not stable at all. I can easily monitor temp on the Core Center plus the fans all start getting louder as the temp goes up. After the mentioned incident the CPU temp was suddenly and immediately all over the place. If you're right I certainly want to know but I don't understand. It looks clearly like cause and effect to me. Of course just because it makes sense to me doesn't necessarily make it true. Please elaborate on why you don't think it has to do with the misconnected wires.

[Steve]

Without knowing which component started to burn, I don't know if it's connected to the heat issue. I don't really know what was causing the smell. That's why I suggest a thorough visual check and a strong workout. It may well be that the bad hookup caused your problem. But it might be coincidence. Frankly, I've plugged those front USB hookups in wrong several times and the only thing that has happened is it didn't work. But that's not to say you didn't short something out. I just don't know. You very well may have hooked it up correctly and just provided voltage to a weak part of the motherboard.

My processor is very temp. reactive. It will idle at 34c. but jump immeditately to 40-43c. when in use but calms down to under 40c in seconds. My daughter works this computer much harder than I would and those are the temps she gets. That's why I thought your temps were on the high side to start.

[Budfred]

I had another thought about your temps varying so much.... it may have to do with the sensors being damaged when the short (or whatever) happened. What are you using to measure temps??

[drdan]

Well, I just let this system run for a while. I also did the Sandra burn in although I'm not quite sure I'm using it right. No problems showed up that I could see. When the ambient temps are low I don't have as much problem so I think I'm going to try Steve's suggestion that I improve on overall CPU cooling before assuming damage. I have gotten conflicting reviews and info on coolers for this 2.4 P4 and the MSI 865G board. Any recommendations on heatsinks and fans. Apparently the bigger Thermalright HS's often need capcitors bent out of the way in order to mount them, which I'm not thrilled about.

[BigBlue66]

Vantec Aeroflow for the P4. Awesome performance plus it's quiet.

[drdan]

There were conflicting reports on the aeroflow with some people feeling it didn't cool any better than the stock Intel solution and was much noisier. On the other hand some people really seemed to get fantastic results and think it was quiet. The biggest gripe I have about the stock intel HS and fan I have on there really has to do with the fan regulation by the motherboard anyway. Once the temp gets up above about 46.5C the fan speed goes up/down/up/down continously. At about 2400 rpm it gets much noiser with a high pitched whine I don't like. When I take if off auto mode and set the range to around 2000 rpm it is very quiet and seems to cool fairly well, at least when not stressed. I would prefer the system be able to respond automatically to higher heat by raising rpm though. I am concerned that a 5500 rpm fan is going to be irritatingly loud, TMD system or not.

If I use the Vantec Aeroflow will the rpm on this TMD system be controlled through the motherboard the same way (assuming I hook it up through the motherboard 3 pin connection). For instance will it run in the 1300-2900 rpm range that this one does or will it be a higher range overall. Is it too much power to go through the motherboard? If the aeroflow would keep the CPU in a cooler range and not keep kicking the rpm's on the fan up and down (but still be able to respond automatically to higher heat when necessary) that would be ideal.

Anybody have any idea how this stock Intel HS might respond to lapping and/or AS3 as opposed to the current thermal tape that came installed on it? I heard it has a copper core also but I didn't see one. It may have been covered by the thermal tape though.

[Steve]

Earlier I thought we had the same processor, but after rereading your post I realized I have the 2.4B, not 2.4C. I'm not sure how much temp. difference there is between the two. When I first put this box together I used the heat transfer pad and stock heat sink. Temps. were 38/40C. at idle and 46/48C. at full throttle. I then lapped the heatsink to 1500 grit, (not a real good job, I could have done better), and used AS3. I got temps. of 34C. at idle and 42/43C at full bore. Fan speed increased but remained steady. After a couple of weeks the idle temps. went down to 31/32C.

So that has been my result. Every build is different. But the majority of 2ghz+ P4 builds, that I've read about, have temps. in the 30'sC. at idle and 40'sC. in use.

Use all the tweaks available to lower the temps. Get the temps. down to where you like them. When you have no heat related performance issues, you're all set.

[drdan]

Well, I "fixed" the problem enough for now. I simply set the fan speed to manual instead of automatic and turn it down to 6 (out of 8). It keeps my processor at 45-48C even after a long day of use and no more fan noise going up and down between low and max constantly. This is a steady noise, not too loud and keeps things cooler. I suppose I should go in and at least lap the HS and use AS3 but it seems to be running fine now so I'm not sure I will.