ddr or sdram for new system?

[funkvibe]

I'm building a new system and I'm not too sure what kind of memory I should get that will work best with my system. I'm planning to use Windows XP. This is my set up so far:

Motherboard - ECS K7S5A Pro
CPU - AMD Athlon XP 1800+
Hard Drive - Maxtor 5Gigs
Video - NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 32MB 4X AGP DualHead

DDR or SDRAM?

[iisbob]

No contest-DDR; why hobble your performance with older SDRAM technology when you can have the newer DDR SDRAM tech for just a few dollars more?

I suggest a PC2700 module from a reputable vendor such as Corsair or Crucial-value ram like Kingston would be ok, even tho 266 is the official max FSB for this board-with a good RAM module & a 2400+ you should be able to get at least 276 ( 138/138 ) or even 294 ( 147/147 ) with no stress on other components ( mainly your PCI/AGP bus )-this soft overclocking will not harm your system nor void the warrenty.

make sure you use the most current BIOS for this board to fix the intermittant " lost CMOS " issue.

[gwallen4]

Go with the DDR. In a cheap system like you are planning I would go with cheap memory also - BestBuy has K-byte memory PC2100 256MB for $20 512 MB for $40.

It sounds like you stripped an old computer for the parts which you listed. However, if you don't already have those components, we could give you a list of parts that might not be much more expensive but better (faster, more powerful). For instance the Athlon XP1700+ Thoroughbred B is a better (cooler running, more over-clockable, less expensive) CPU.

[funkvibe]

thanks for the help guys...

gwallen4 > i could be able to get the cpu that you mentioned, and i am also interested in finding out what you think would be a better set-up than the one i have planned. what do you think i should get?

[Budfred]

Check out these boards (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=22&manufactory=1312&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1) and the AMD Barton chip (http://www.newegg.com/app/Viewproduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=property&catalog=343&mfrcode=0&propertycodevalue=4159&keywords=&minprice=&maxprice=&description=%20&srchFor=Barton) . Asus and Gigabyte are nice boards as well, but probably a little more pricey. That ECS board isn't bad, but it has a lousy manual and is not top of the line...

[Deagle]

I agree with budfred, get Asus, Abit or Epox, MSI...These brands are reliable in my opinion.;) But really, a 5gb HD, 32mb vid card... If you want to seriously upgrade, tell us your budget and we will whip up something :D
PEACE:)

[funkvibe]

At the moment I don't have that much to spend. That's why I'm trying to use some old system components for the time being. Right now I'm using a very slow Pentium 120Mhz 32MB Ram system which can barely handle forums like these:( My budget at the moment is only $300 Canadian. This is where I am planning to get my parts from: http://www.canadacomputers.com

I don't need the most powerful computer, but fast enough to play games like "Age of Mythology" or "Warcraft 3." Don't play games like Quake because they make me sick...really:)

Any help most appreciated!!!

[Budfred]

Well the ECS board is a decent one, I used the earlier version to build a system for my sister and she likes it a lot. She isn't a gamer however. I would go with that board and the fastest Barton chip you can afford. For gaming you will need to look at video cards more than CPUs and I don't know enough about them to suggest anything...

[funkvibe]

Isn't the Barton chip 333Mhz fsb? I think the ECS board that I mentioned is 266/200mhz fsb. Would that work?

This is what I have decided on so far

Asus A7S333 Sis 745 $92
AMD XP 1700+ $79
KingMax PC2100 266 DDR 256MB $41
LiteOn 52X CD-ROM $27
Floppy Drive $15

[iisbob]

Would that work?

Yep, done a few of the mods for the K7S5A v3.1 myself using Speedfan in windows to get the board to use the true 166 FSB of the 2500+; however, i'd suggest going with a 2400+ at native 133 & a stick of PC2700. The 735 chipset is aging, but this board is still a great budget gamer/workstation investment.

[saphalline]

Using the link you gave us for Canada Computers, I would suggest something like this:

Asus A7V8X-X $90 (cheapest with KT400 chipset)

- VIA's KT400 chipset supports the 333MHz FSB of the Bartons and PC2700 DDR RAM

AthlonXP 1800+ retail $83
or
AthlonXP Barton 2500+ $134

- depends on how much power you want, but I picked a retail version for both so you don't have to buy a separate CPU HSF unit

Kingmax PC2100 256MB $47
or
Kingmax PC2700 256MB $64

- the Barton/333MHz FSB system is looking mighty costly now

I don't know the conversion rate for CAN/USD, but some of the prices on that site look a bit on the high end. But then again, this is a lot of computer power for so little. If you go with the 1800+ and PC2100 RAM, you could get a system that is so much better and cheaper than a P120 it's not even funny!

I do recommend that you rip the floppy drive out of that P120 system if you're bent on having one. That way, you could upgrade the CD-ROM drive to a DVD or CD-RW drive without costing that much more. Either one is a big improvement over a vanilla CD-ROM drive and will provide even more satisfaction as you sneer at the P120! :D :p

[Deagle]

Hehe, I will take the liberty of doing the exchange rates so its easier to compare (I'm bored);)
Asus A7V8X-X CAD $90 ~ USA $65
AthlonXP 1800+ retail CAD $83 ~ USA $60
AthlonXP Barton 2500+ CAD $134 ~ USA $96
Kingmax PC2100 256MB CAD $47 ~ USA $34
Kingmax PC2700 256MB CAD$64 ~ USA $46
PEACE :D
Oh and I use this site (http://www.xe.com/ucc/) to do the exchange: feel free to check it if you want to;)

[funkvibe]

Just a few more questions then I'm off to the store!!!:D I just found out that my old hard drive is a Maxtor 6.4GB Ultra33:( & my video card is a Voodoo 3 3000 AGP (not sure if it is 4X or 2X AGP) Will these work with my new system specs? If not I will be forced to spend a little more.

ASUS A7V8X-X VIA KT400 w/audio
Athlon XP 1700+ (I have a Volcano 6Cu+ HSF lying around)
KingMax PC2700 256MB
LiteOn 16X DVD
??ECS AG315P 64MB SDRAM
??Maxtor 30GB

[malcore]

Spend at least the extra $20 and get the 40GB Western Digital with 8MB cache( $93) over the Maxtor 30GB ( $75). Look at how the price per GB decreases dramatically as you go up to 60GB ( $114) and 80GB ( $124).

Also, bump up from the ECS card. Again, an extra $20 more for at least a GeForce4 MX ($65) or Radeon 9000 ( $72).

Happy shopping and building!;)

[Budfred]

If you have a major chain store that carries computers in your area, I would look for things like the CDRW and hard drive there. RAM can usually be found for good prices too. You have to deal with rebates, but the prices are often worth it. Example: a Cendyne (good brand) CDRW for $15 after rebates this week. Example 80gig hard drive for $60 this week (if I remember the ads correctly). These are USA dollars....

[gwallen4]

Make sure you get the Athlon XP1700+ Thoroughbred 'B' version of the CPU. The 1800+ has no B version. The advantages are that the B version runs cooler and can be overclocked more easily because of an unlocked multiplier.

Since you are getting the Asus K7v8x-x MB, I would suggest a slight over clock:

CPU frequency: 2000 MHz (XP2400+)
FSB frequency: 166 MHz
Multiplier: 12

This should run at normal Vcore voltage, and cause no heat problems with air cooling.

You should get PC2700 DDR memory, clocked at 166 MHz (X2). Thus, the FSB and memory will be synchronized to give the best performance.

The best part is you get a really fast system for not too many bucks.

You better plan on a new case since your old one is probably not a standard ATX case, plus your old PSU isn't going to have enough power - you need at least 300 watts.

Follow Budfred's advice: find a chain store to get your hard disk and CD-Burner. You can get a much better deal than ordering the parts through a computer company if you are willing to deal with rebates.

[Budfred]

If you overclock per gwallen4's suggestion:

You will not be able to perceive the difference.
You will immediately void your warranty on all parts.
You will shorten the life of your system.

Obviously, I am not a fan of overclocking. It made some sense when machines were really slow, but that isn't the case now. My rule of thumb, if you can't afford to replace the equipment out of petty cash, don't overclock...

[gwallen4]

Budfred,

We're not talking about a huge overclock here, just taking the cheapest parts we can get and putting together in a way that creates a very fast and powerful system - with a synchronous processor and DDR Ram. I have three similar systems running now using the XP1700+ OC'd to XP2400+. Just a few bios settings is all it takes if you have a Thoroughbred B. All three CPU's OC'd at standard VCore and ran at temps below 50 C. with standard aircooling ($10 heatsink fans).

The only part of the system that is over clocked is the CPU and if you would read the user comments on the XP1700+ at NewEgg you would see that nearly all of the 500+ reviewers of that CPU overclock it. It was born to overclock. It is virtually the same chip as the XP2400+ T-bred B, except for the labelling.

I know of know reason why doing this would void any warranties on the parts. Also, I take issue with your statement that it shortens the life of the system. I don't see how running the CPU at standard voltage and temperature is going to shorten its life.

Maybe he wouldn't appreciate any speed difference now since he will have significant bottlenecks with video and HD access but he will have the basis for a noticeably faster system once he is able to afford better components.

Outside of that I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

[Budfred]

From AMD:

"This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including improper use, problems with electrical power, accident, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing.

This Limited Warranty shall be null and void if the AMD microprocessor which is the subject of this Limited Warranty is used with any heatsink/fan other than the one provided herewith."

I think they would consider overclocking to be alteration and improper testing. They also say that using any other heatsink voids the warranty and how many overclockers use the standard heatsink?

If you look at warranties for most other parts, they will include a cause about using the product as intended and overclocking is not considered to be intended use.

As for shortening the life of the system, if you run a computer hotter, it will not last as long. Even if it isn't much hotter, it will be somewhat.

I am not going to tell anyone they can't overclock if they want to, but I think people need to be aware of the risks before they do, especially when they indicate they have a tight budget.

[gwallen4]

By the time the CPU dies from over heating, we'll be looking at systems with processors clocked at 100 GHz, and the system we are discussing will be as obsolete as the 100 MHz Pentium II he has now.

[Variable]

Well, we need some other oc'ers in here to see if what I am smelling, is what I think I'm smelling. You say you can OC a athlon 1700 to a 2400 and have it run (ie a load) and keep it below 50c with a stock heat sink and fan? Thats amazing, truly. Im sure my 2000 is sitting at just around 50c surfing the net.
V

[Budfred]

And my point remains the same. If someone is going to be told to overclock, they also need to be told about potential consequences. If it takes only 1% off of the life of a CPU, then it is still shortening that life. And in some cases, it fries the CPU and takes 100% of its life....

[gwallen4]

Variable:

Your 2000+ is probably a Palamino and will consume more power and run considerably hotter than a 1700+ T-bred B that is OC'd to 2400+(2 GHz). My wife's computer has a 2000+ and runs just over 50C. at load with a stock HSF (not OC'd). So I know where you are coming from.

Nevertheless, the 1700+ T-bred B is quite different.

Read the Customer Reviews of this CPU from NewEgg here:

http://secure.newegg.com/app/CustratingReview.asp?item=19-103-351

[Variable]

Well after reading a few of the excited teen reviews from newegg, I decided to do what all of do and google it. Heres one good example page I found. Wonder why yours go to 2400 with stock heat sink and fan...
fanhttp://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3261_1363691__9

[gwallen4]

Listen up guys!

I'm not a hardcore overclocker but I do read about it. Several months ago I saw an opportunity. The Athlon 1700+ T-bred B CPU was being touted by numerous groups as a great overclocking chip. I have purchased four of them at $43, 43, 42, 45 from NewEgg (now listed for $48). You cannot always be sure that you will receive a version 'B', but I have been lucky. I overclock only the CPU, so no other components are at risk.

I haven't ordered any retail CPU's only the OEM so they have no guarantee except from NewEgg, and I haven't used a stock heatsink except for one system that I OC'd. I don't use expensive HSF's though, usually $10-15 such as the one listed here:

http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=370613

For those that are interested, the best deal now for a simple OC seems to be the Athlon 2500+ (Barton) at about $88 at NewEgg.

As a loyal and long time contributor to this forum, I am a little dismayed that my posts would be labelled as "smelly", but I've decided to disregard that since it comes from someone who is obviously inexperienced in OC'ing.

My suggestions to the original contributor stand. Even if he chooses not to overclock, he will have purchased great components which can be OC'd in the future as his experience grows.

[gwallen4]

Variable:

Interesting article, but somewhat out of date (June 10, 2002) and irrelevant since Thoroughbred B's were not even on the market.

[Budfred]

Listen up gwallen4!

I never said you were "smelly" or that anything you said was "smelly". I never said anyone should not OC. I did say that people who are advised to overclock need to be aware of the risks and the likelihood of very little benefit for those risks. You have not refuted that point and I will continue saying while I expect you will continue to advocate that people OC. I disagree with you, but I would not try to tell you that you can't do what you want with your own equipment. I would like to see you do what some others who advocate OCing do which is to include warnings with their recommendations. However, that also remains your choice.

[gwallen4]

Sorry Budfred. I wasn't referring to your posts, which have always been straightforward and sincere expressions of your opinions. I read your posts with interest and I have always respected your insights, even though I may occassionally disagree. Surely there is room within this forum to disagree.

Variable: Try the following article:

http://www.pinoypc.net/articles/viewarticle.php?article=16

[malcore]

The most important thing when it comes to even considering overclocking is information. To me, overclocking is not solely about performance. In fact performance takes a distant second to learning. What you learn about the function of computers and the interrelation of its various components when overclocking is far more satisfying than any gains in performance.

Also, has anybody bothered to even look at the CanadaComputers site? It is not an internet retailer. It is in fact a "chain store". The prices are not all that bad for Canada. They seem a little high right now because the Canadian dollar has skyrocketed in recent months and that is reflected in the exchange rate (believe me, this has been a real bane to me as a Canadian working overseas :( )

He may find a better price at Future Shop or Compusmart, but not likely. It sounds like he wants to get at it anyway and not wait for sales and coupons.

Looks like a nice budget system which should fit his needs and leave a little room for future upgrading.;)

[Variable]

Gwallen I read the URL's you posted. It seems the 1700B you mentioned is a great OC'ing CPU. But, I think OC'ers have to put a big huge disclaimer when they tell someone to OC their chips, because I have seen the fried chips from people doing this. That said, from the new URL you posted it seems like a really good deal. You were right about the chip, my humble apologies /bow.
It's just that sometimes a little knowledge is bad, someone reads about OC'ing and says "hey lets bump the voltage up on my 1.1 ghtz and make it a 1600!" Next thing you know the puter doesn't work. Sometimes weird anomalies like this chip come along, but in the main I still think it's a dangerous road to travel down for the average computer user. It's for the advanced user. Anyway, just my opinion.

V

[Steve]

gwallen4, can you steer me to where I can get one of those chips? I found THIS (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=343&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&propertycode=&propertycodevalue=4159,3896) page at Newegg but I'm not sure about the A or B designation.

I've been interested in overclocking for a while and have been thinking of trying out an AMD chip (I've used only Intel up 'til now). This seems like a good opportunity to indulge my curiosity. ;)

[malcore]

No guarantee on which version you will get from Newegg. From the reviews it looks like a better chance if you order the retail version and not the OEM.

What you are looking for is the AXA1700DLT3C JIUHB version of the chip. It OC's so well because the voltages are very low.

Too bad you don't live in Canada, guaranteed chip here (http://www.bigfootcomputers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9270PRAM&Category_Code=0920) ;)

[funkvibe]

Thanks for everyone's help:D I think I will overclock my new 1700+ to a 2400+ when I get my hands on it. I've oc'd before (Duron 850@1.13) so I know what I'm getting into.

Thanks again!

[rond36]

Originally posted by malcore
No guarantee on which version you will get from Newegg. From the reviews it looks like a better chance if you order the retail version and not the OEM.

What you are looking for is the AXA1700DLT3C JIUHB version of the chip. It OC's so well because the voltages are very low.

Too bad you don't live in Canada, guaranteed chip here (http://www.bigfootcomputers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9270PRAM&Category_Code=0920) ;)

They take US credit cards and will ship it here!

[gwallen4]

As usual. when there is alot of interest in a particular CPU, the sellers increase its price.

The 1700+ which I paid $42 for a few weeks ago, is now $52 and not every one is a 'B'. Apparently most of the retail 1700+ now are 'B's and they cost $60 at NewEgg, but you do get a HSF and a three year guarantee with it. Worst case is you get an 'A' and have to RMA it.

The XP2100+ is $67 and is advertized as a revision 'B' so you know what you are getting there.

The Barton 2500+ which was a bargain last week at $80 is now $90.

Funkvibe: Rond36's source in Canada - Bigfoot, sounds like your best bet.

Here's how to tell all the different revisions apart:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips00173/

[FreeLoader]

Personally in most cases I'd agree with Budfred...I mean after about 1.4 ghz there's almost no point to going further except for a few games, and I do mean a FEW, most games can be run quite well on 1.4...and all the xp's are higher then that, and much faster.

So there really isn't a point to ocing unless you're a gamer, except for bragging rights...

actually thats not really true...but in most cases it is, because of how much you have to do to it to get it to overclock to a good number.

I have 2 exceptions though, the 1700+ and the barton 2500+...both seem very safe to me.

The 1700+ is safe in the sense that supposedly you can bring those bad boys up to 2.2-2.3 ghz and keep em stable...which I wouldn't do, but you certainly could get very nice gains with very little overclocking, which is nice.

The 2500+ is my favorite. It's oc friendly to an extreme. All you have to do is change the fsb to 400, which it seems to be designed to do in the first place, so among all the processors, I personally think that that cpu is one of the few that can handle a great amount of ocing without shortening the lifespan...

stop me if I'm wrong, but those two seem oc-worthy, while in practically any other case, it seems like you're just destroying it for a couple hundred mhz.