What steps should I be real concerned about?

[The_Fire_Theft]

Ok, here is what I have ...

- Western Digital 120GB Ultra ATA/100
- ATI Radeon 9600 Pro graphics card
- M-Audio audiophile 2496 sound card
- Linksys Ethernet card
- Windows XP Pro

... and here is what I will be receiving tomorrow ...

-DDRAM CRSR 512MB X2 KIT|VS1GBKIT333 1 $178.00
-CPU AMD|3000/333 ATHLON XP BARTON R 1 $262.00
-HD 120GB|SEAGATE ST3120026A 8mb % 1 $103.00
-FD 1.44MB|SONY Black MPF920 OEM 1 $10.00
-THERMAL COMPOUND|ANTEC SILVER 1 $9.99
-CDRW 52X24X52|ASUS BLK CRW-5224A R 1 $44.99
-MB NFORCE2 A7N8X DELUXE ASUS RTL 1 $129.99
-ANTEC Performance PLUS Model PLUS1080AMG- with Antec Original TRUE 430W P4 Power Supply ATX12V

I have posted a couple threads about this, but I thought this question would be better served by itself.

I am real concerned about screwing things up, since I have never done this before. I would say I am a little above average when it comes to figuring out things with a computers software, but I know very little about the hardware. I have replaced graphics cards, sound cards, memory, and a hard drive. I can honestly say I have a lot to learn about what makes up the guts of a PC. With that said, it should be easy to understand my feeling insecure about putting this thing together this weekend.

Here are some questions I have, I am certain I will posting more this weekend asking for more detail, so please bare with me!

1. What should I be most concerned with before starting to put the PC together?

2. As far as drivers, chipsets, etc ... from the items listed above, what will I need to download other than the graphics card driver,(that I already know about).

3. Can I damage the processor, or motherboard by simply handling it the wrong way? For example, are there certain parts of them that you should never touch?

4. How much time should I expect it to take? Don't forget, I am a rookie!

5. Which hard drive should I put the operating system on ... Seagate, or Western Digital?

... one more

6. What does 8mb cache mean?

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the help your all willing to give! As you can imagine building my first PC is both

:) and :eek:

Thanks!

P.S. I don't expect anyone to answer all six questions in one post, just a little here and there will be great.

[Budfred]

1. Installing the CPU and heatsink/fan is the trickiest. It may be worthwhile to lap the heatsink, particularly if you can see any cupping in the center of it. This can flatten it down to a very smooth surface which will allow better heat transfer.

Getting the motherboard into the case can be a little tricky, mainly in making sure that the screws for the standoffs are not touching any circuitry. Most boards will have little metal washer-type holes which reduces this risk.

Hooking up the switch, internal speakers and LEDs is a little tricky, but Asus has good manuals, so it shouldn't be too bad and you probably can't harm anything there anyway.

It is a good idea to add components in stages. Put in the board, CPU, power video, internal speaker, switches, LEDs and keyboard/mouse. Try a boot and make sure it POSTs and shows the boot on the screen to the point where it says it doesn't have an OS disk. Then shut down and add a floppy boot disk and see if you can get to DOS. If that works, add an optical or hard drive and so on....

2. Most of your new stuff will either come with drivers or they are basic to Windoze, so you may not have to worry about any. If you do need the video driver, I would get that before starting....

3. The only way you are likely to damage components by handling is if you don't keep yourself grounded. You can fry just about anything in the box this way, but RAM seems often to be most vulnerable. Of course, dropping the CPU, motherboard or several other components from a height on a hard floor could be a problem...

4. If you do it slowly and carefully, it could theoretically take an afternoon. I did 3 recently and each took about 4 hours or so, if you take out the time that I had to find solutions to problems. If you do it in a hurry, probably at least a couple of days....

5. Yes. In other words, that is up to you. It really doesn't matter. I would probably want the files that are hardest to replace on my newest drive on the speculation that it is less likely to fail, but I would back it up anyway.

6. An 8 Mb cache on a hard drive allows the hard drive to try to anticipate what you will want next and keep it handy so it doesn't have to return all the way to the source to retrieve the data. This makes it faster than 2 Mb cache drives because it can hold more data...

Have fun....
:cool: ;) :D

[Whyzman]

Congratulations on taking on this endeavor! An IBUILTIT computer is indeed a very worthwhile venture. No need to worry about opening the case or swapping possible problem hardware and voiding a warranty...

I agree with Budfred regarding lapping of the heatsink. mjc counseled me to do so when I first decided to build and I have done so to every one since. The process is relatively simple and you can see the results as you go in real time.

Here's a pretty good link to assist: http://overclockersclub.com/heatsinklappingguide.php

I personally start with 320 grit which will quickly show if you're high centered and will cut things down relatively quickly. From there I use 400 then 600 and I end up with 1500 (some consider it a bit anal retentive...but I like that I can nearly see my face in the thing! :D )

Most good hardware stores sell the sheets individually...I paid around 75 cents per sheet. Some you might be able to see cupped, but my experience has been more stunning...in that I couldn't believe what I was seeing...the things all "looked" flat! ;)

After getting to the floppy drive hooked up I would have ready the Harddrive diagnostics to bench test the drive and make sure all is well.

Then, I would run a Memory Tester such as http://www.simmtester.com/PAGE/products/doc/docinfo.asp

You d/l both of these and have them ready to go. Most of the Harddrive diagnostics are self-booting, but I would have handy a Win98 boot disk anyway.

I don't know if we mentioned round IDE and floppy cables...I almost consider these a must now-a-days to assist with unobstructed airflow in and out of the case.

Fans, have you secured adequate wind? Some fans have an option to control the RPMs through thermistors...Some run wide open and might be a little noisy... Something to consider if sound is an issue where you will be placing your build.

There are also controls...I think one is a Hardcano?? These control all fans at your fingertips.

I also find that a magnifying glass works wonderfully for reading the fine screened print on the Motherboards...especially when it comes to the case wiring Budfred made special mention about. We've had a number of questions in this regard recently.

As I mentioned recently, it has been my experience that the triangle is the positive side of the plug.

Enjoy! ;)

[The_Fire_Theft]

Thanks so much! Those are the exact answers I was looking for. I have never even heard of wet sanding the heatsink, I will certainly do that. Whyzman, that link for lapping the heatsink ... Awesome, well writing and funny. I will definitely be having a few cold ones! If all goes well I will celebrate with some "Vitamin T" (http://www.redrocker.com/tequila.html)



Budfred, keeping grounded would just consist of touching the case or power supply prior to touching any parts, right?

[Budfred]

I use a grounding wrist strap with an attached and coiled wire that you clip to a case that is plug in, but not powered. Others here have said you just need to make sure you are touching the case and I have forgotten the conclusion about whether or not it has to be plugged into a grounded plug. Since I use the wrist thing, it is not that crucial for me...

[Fruss Tray Ted]

it is not that crucial for me...
until you get lifted...

Leave it unplugged for safety's sake. 99&9/10ths percent of any of the manuals and guides out there state to work on things unplugged.

I tried lapping the heatsink once, the thermal paste tasted like... oh, wrong meaning of the word...

Sorry :o :)

[pave_spectre]

Always be sure the thing is unplugged unless you like feeling like someone just kicked you in the chest if slip up(best case scenario).

[The_Fire_Theft]

Isn't there a stright forward answer to unplugged vs. plugged? I never intended on keeping it plugged in but hearing that people do it that way makes me wonder. I would guess that since you don't turn it on you would be pretty safe, although if you were to touch the wrong wire to something you could be in for a nice little jolt!

[pave_spectre]

It depends on how the switch at the power point is wired. Here in Oz they are mostly switched on the 'active' line and even in the off position the so-called 'neutral' wire can still be live so that an eathing problem can still result in a jolt, as I have been unlucky enough to discover.

[Whyzman]

A "little jolt" is not good! I don't even think I'd like the ultra caffineated cola version...

Here's what I did...(edit) I thought better of disclosing this to the general public....hehe

For those of you who were fortunate enough to read it before I edited it...hehe...it worked quite well....

[BigBlue66]

Guess I will throw my $0.02 in and advise you to install the heatsink before you install the motherboard in the case. Much easier that way.

Also, you ask about drivers. The Asus board will come with a driver CD with whatever their latest version of the NF2 drivers are. Use those to get your system up and running. In another week or so, Nvidia should be coming out with new drivers that you might consider. Actually, they have come out with newer drivers than what Asus supplies, but there has been problems with the IDE drivers, which cause less than desirable performance. So use the drivers on the CD until Nvidia gets their act together.

Included on the driver CD is a program called PC Probe. Install that fairly early in the process of installing all your software so that you can keep an eye on temps.

Read the motherboard manual before you start doing anything. Look for directions on how to run the RAM in dual channel mode and how to set the FSB jumper on the motherboard. Chances are the jumper will already be in the desired position, but verify that by reading up on it.

Take your time.

[Budfred]

I should have mentioned that when I leave the computer plugged in while working on it, I have it running through 2 or 3 layers of surge protectors that are switched off. Also, most of the time I have the wrist strap hooked up to a different computer than the one I am working on, so I am not near anything with power in it....

The last time we discussed this, there seemed to be a number of contradictory expert opinions, so I try to do it the way that it seems safe. My main point is to stay grounded when handling sensitive equipment...

[The_Fire_Theft]

OK, I've been trying to get this thing to work for hours now. I am getting a message from the motherboard saying "no cpu installed". What did I do wrong? Is it possible that it's not installed wrong? I know I installed it correctly, the only thing I'm concerned with is I had to push down real hard on the heatsink clips. I tried to take it off, which I know probably isn't a real good idea just yet, but I couldn't get it because I would of had to push so hard I was afraid of the screwdriver slipping and damaging the board.

You shouldn't have to push that hard should you? I am starting to think I should have just watched someone put this thing together the first time. I am going crazy thinking that I might have just blew a couple hundred bucks. I have to say that when I was putting the heatsink on I felt I was pushing to hard, but I couldn't figure out a better way to do it. Did I break it? Please tell me I probably didn't. Has anyone ever had this message withan ASUS board before. If so what did you do.

I didn't change any jumper settings.

I gotta get some sleep before I go bonkers. Please help!

I should also say that I get no disply on my monitor.

Thanks.

[The_Fire_Theft]

Forget the last thread ... I fixed that, I don't know how, I just know it isn't giving me the no cpu installed warning. My problem now is no display. Is it ok to have my graphics card plugged in right away, or do I need to configure things first using the onboard graphics?

[Whyzman]

If the card has onboard graphics I would go that route first...

I did a search regarding the "no cpu installed" issue...there are tons of them in various forums with the same problem...I've been busy reading up on the problem but have found no one with a solution...

I'm going to check the ASUS forums right now and see if they have a fix...some were reporting that the problem is intermittent...

Make sure that your Heatsink Fan is snug on the motherboard header...it could be that the RPMs are not getting sent to the MB and initiating the message...

I'll let you know if I find a fix just incase the problem reoccurs...

[Whyzman]

Did you lap the heatsink as earlier discussed? Did you apply the Artic Silver before assembling?

[The_Fire_Theft]

No I just wanted to get the thing up and running so I decided to just put it together the way it was and if I was succesful, then I would do that. I also thought that would void the warranty, so I wanted to make sure I could get it going prior to removing anything.

I can hear it now ... "You fried the cpu," but the thing is after taking it off, and putting it back on I am not getting the warning.

[Whyzman]

Ok, that's fine for now...leave the "stock" setup...

Have you ever visited PC GUIDE Forums mIrc chat channel?

[Budfred]

Some reassurance: Those heatsinks can be a royal pain to install. It is not uncommon for people to drive a screwdriver into the motherboard in putting one it or trying to take one out. It is good to take it slow and careful. Some boards have a somewhat more elaborate system to attach them that is much safer, but most are real tricky....

[The_Fire_Theft]

No, what is that? Is that like a real time help session? If so I will look into that later because my 2 year old son is waking up and my wife is the maid of honor in a wedding today. So she will be gone all day, and I will be busy with my kid until about 5:00. This is another reason I wanted to get the thing going late last night and early this morning. Please keep posting any help you can think of and I will check back later to see if anything works.

Thanks a lot everyone!

[Whyzman]

Yes to the mIrc question...Many of the regulars can be found hanging out there...especially our moderator mjc...

Answers can come fast and furious there...hehe! ;) :D

I've been trying to locate...does this board have onboard video????

[Budfred]

To use the Mirc connection, I would start from the link on the PCGuide homepage and ask for help to get Mirc set up. Also, it tends to be occupied later in the evening, after about 10 PM MN time....

[Whyzman]

I'm not seeing onboard video....You will need to add the AGP card to the initial setup...

Make sure the bugger is completely seated...they seem to go in with a bit a force...but should not require the proverbial hammer...

[The_Fire_Theft]

I will go on that board later, and yes it believe it does? I really have to get my son up he is yelling for me, I think he wants some cookie crisp!

Later

[Whyzman]

All the specs I've seen about the board so far do not mention onboard video...Audio and LAN...but no video...

[Whyzman]

Your "no cpu installed" warning might have been coming from a situation that your BIOS is an older version...and not updated to the newer faster processors.

I hate when they do this! Flashing the BIOS is not one of the first things a body wants to do when trying to assemble for the first time! :mad:

Here's a link to ASUS where you would need to check on the PCB # (Printed Circuit Board) and then also which BIOS version you have currently...

http://www.asus.com/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

[The_Fire_Theft]

I am back for a moment. You are right, I was just reading the book and there is no mention of integrated graphics. I should have known seeing is there is no where to plug a monitor in. So my Radeon 9600 pro should be recognized, right? Should I try a old graphics card? I was also looking around online and say where someone said to remove the jumper for the bus, does this sound like a good idea, it doesn't to me. As long as I am getting power it really shouldn't matter what I have plugged in, right? I can't be certain I have all the connections right. For example on the board where you plug in the power led, it also shows a SMI lead (system managment interrupt lead) mit mentions this is used for suspend mode, I can't find anything to put here.

[Whyzman]

I have an ASUS board myself...not your model...

I would just go with the defaults...I'd be surprised if it was not a jumper free...In other words, I'd just leave everything as it came and work from there...

I'd go ahead and install the video card you plan on using...

[malcore]

Don't worry about the SMI.

You don't have onboard video on that board.

You turned it on and got a CPU error?

You then reseated the CPU and heatsink?

Did you reseat the CPU and sink while the Radeon was in place?

That board has a Universal AGP slot. There isn't a clip to keep it in place. You may have loosened the card a bit when applying force to the board when reseating the CPU.

Remove and replace the video card. Listen for the click. When you put the screw in to fasten it to the back of the case, give the card another push to be sure.

Are all fans spinning? Lights coming on? Any beeps at all?

[Whyzman]

malcore,

Glad to see you're here...don't you run this board?

The Forums are "heavy laden" with the "no cpu installed" errors...

The one answer I found on the ASUS FAQs, albeit for a different MB, stated that the BIOS was older and needed to be updated to recognize the faster processor...

I noticed in the link I provided that the processor that Fire has chosen looks like it needs at least version 1002 to be properly recognized... and PCB version 1.04

(edit) If you're not assembling outside of the case initially...watch for how the "tang" on the rear plate for the AGP fits in...they can sometimes be slightly curved and when you tighten them down they can get pulled from the slot...You can manually adjust the tang (by bending the sucker) so ensure that it will sit flush...:D

[malcore]

Yes, if he bought this board from Newegg, he should be good to go with this processor. BIOS 1002 is really old now, and Newegg sells a ton of these boards. Worth a look see anyway, you never know.

Until he gets some video or a POST screen, we won't know what BIOS he has.

I figure the CPU wasn't properly installed and now the vid card isn't quite seated properly.

Edit- We need to know if he's trying just a minimal boot here also.

[Whyzman]

What BIOS version are they up to now??

[malcore]

1004 is the latest, released in late May. This is for revision 1.03, 1.04, 1.06.

I bought my board way back in April, and it was PCB 1.06 with BIOS 1002A.

They now have the PCB2.0, which supports all present Athlons.

[Whyzman]

Thanks for the info...

Hopefully, Fire has one of the newer ones then...

[Whyzman]

Ah...looks like the 2.0 is up to 1005...

http://www.asus.com/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=A7N8X%20Deluxe

[The_Fire_Theft]

I got it!!! My BIOS version is 1005.

Guess what it was...

... human error!

You know the clip you raise to a 90 degree angle to drop the processor in, well I didn't have it clipped in right, you need to kind of move it to the side while pressing down, I didn't do that, I just closed it. I guess it pays to take your time and do things the right way the first time. If I had done that I would of had this thing up and running in under two hours. Not bad for my first time. Although that does not include lapping the heatsink, and putting on the theraml compound. I figured it out shortly after my last post, and wanted to get online so you guy's didn't have to keep wondering what was wrong, but with the wedding and my son I decided to bring the PC out into the kitchen where I have no cable to hook into. I also had my internet PC all torn apart so I apologize for taking so long to get back on here.

You guy's rock! I really appreciate the help.

By the way my CPU temp is between 40 and 50c. That seems kind of high from the other post I've read about it. How much of a drop could I expect with lapping and applying thermal compound to the heatsink?

One more thing for know ... Do you think I damaged the processor by pressing down so hard without having the clip on right? This system is just flying right now, I love it!

[Budfred]

Those temps are ok, but may go up when doing graphics or other intensive work. Arctic Silver claims that they can lead to about a 5C drop and lapping should give you a few more degrees if there is any curve to your heatsink.

As for damaging the CPU... If you did, you probably wouldn't be using the system now...:eek: :eek: :)

Glad to hear you got it going and that is VERY good for a first build...:cool:

[Whyzman]

Awesome Fire!!

Congratulations on your first IBUILTIT system!!! You'll not regret the investment in knowledge and that you know exactly what you've got under the hood!! ;)

[The_Fire_Theft]

Thanks guy's!

[malcore]

T_F_T, you are lucky that board has Asus C.O.P (CPU Overheating Protection).

With that arm not being down all the way, that's why it took an incredible amount of force to attach the heatsink. The sink was probably not completely in contact with the CPU. That can be fatal with an Athlon, and without C.O.P. you would be crying right now, not flying.

Glad it worked out. Nice system. ;)

[BigBlue66]

Originally posted by The_Fire_Theft

How much of a drop could I expect with lapping and applying thermal compound to the heatsink?

Are you saying you're not using any thermal interface material right now? Maybe I missed something, didn't read the entire post, but you must use some kind of TIM when you install the heatsink. In a perfect world, the mating surfaces of the heatsink base and core would be such that there would be no microscopic pits and valleys, but alas, we're not in a perfect world, so you need to use TIM to help the heat transfer between two uneven mating services.

Yes, lapping would decrease your temps. By how much is hard to predict. Depends on your lapping job I guess.

I highly recommend using either Arctic Silver III or Arctic Silver Ceramique. I personally have started using the Ceramique and loving every minute of it.

Arctic Silver's website has installation instructions for both TIMs.

So, if you're not using any kind of TIM now, shut the system down and use some.

[The_Fire_Theft]

So the pad that comes on the heatsink is not good enough? I do plan on applying thermal, I just wasn't sure how it would affect the warranty. Seeing as this was my first build I wanted to make sure that I would be able to exchage the processor in case of any problems. I will do that now, where do you guy's buy the real fine sandpaper, all I could find wouldn't have been fine enough. Maybe an auto store?

[Budfred]

The thermal pad is adequate and should keep your CPU from burning up in standard use. Arctic Silver is supposed to be better, but it will void your warranty on AMD chips. The most important thing is to be very careful to apply it very thinly so that it doesn't squeeze out and risk shorting out the chip. If I understand the AS Ceramique thing, it is less of a risk for this.

I imagine you can find the really fine sandpaper at a auto store or a big warehouse hardware like Offic Depot or Menards....

[Whyzman]

I pick up the wet/dry sandpaper from a local hardware store...the big boys might have the individual sheets for sale also...

Personally, I've never really been sold on the stock sinks and fans that come bundled with the processor. I usually head toward the Thermaltake sinks and fans...although I know some of the folks have been going other routes...

I like the idea of a nice 80mm fan and sink cooling things down...

You could just set aside the stock sink and fan rather than removing the pad and altering the setup...