Seemingly INSOLUBLE video capture problem

[joea64]

This is for anyone who has any experience at all with video capture hardware/software. I'm pretty much at the end of my rope in getting my AVerTV video capture card/TV tuner application and PowerVCR II PVR software to work properly on my Windows 98SE system (512 MB Crucial PC133 SDRAM, Radeon 9000 driver file version 4.13.01.9043 with 128 MB, DirectX 8.1, VIA KT266A-based mobo with VIA 4-in-1 driver version 4.35v, various Windows Updates installed).

To recapitulate for those who haven't been following my saga (which I've discussed in various other threads here at PCGuide), back in late July, my old motherboard (an ECS K7VZA VIA KT133A board) rolled over and died due to bad capacitors, and I had to replace it with a Syntax SV266A mobo based on the VIA KT266A chipset, the K7VZA no longer being in production. While my system was at the shop, the "helpful" techs decided my system needed Windows Updates for Win98 (including IE 6), a new version of the 4-in-1 drivers, new video drivers, and DirectX 9.0a. Therefore, ever since I've gotten my system back (and before I had to have the mobo replaced, it's very important to note that AVerTV and PowerVCR II were working properly), I haven't been able to get those two applications working right again, not even after I've gone back to the original drivers (from the install CD) for my Radeon, backed up to version 4.35 of the 4-in-1 drivers (the most recent version that is optimized for Win9x), and even used DirectX Eradicator to uninstall DirectX 9.0a and put DirectX 8.1 in.

The AVerTV application, when I open it up, shows a blank window unless I click the "Text" button, at which point the picture comes up normally with captioning, if the program being shown at the time is captioned (my video input is via the composite/RCA jack, for the record). In point of fact, since all it takes to get the application working properly is to click the "text" button, it's not such a big problem - except that I want the application to be showing the video picture when it's started. Also, I can't get the VCR/record facility to work, even after I run FilterSDK. (I know somebody told me how to do it, but I've forgotten.)

Cyberlink's PowerVCR II presents a more serious problem. I have the same problem with a blank display screen when I start the program, until I switch to "Video1" source (for the composite), then go into the Configuratin menu and close it again. Moreover - and this is more serious - the MPEG files that I record play back _much_ too fast. A 1-minute file, for example, is supposed to take 1 minute to play back, but on PowerDVD 5, for example, it plays back in 4 seconds (I timed it)! I have no idea what's going on, and like I said, I'm just about at the end of my rope. I even went so far as to do a complete uninstall and reinstall of the AVerTV drivers and application, and PowerVCR II, but to no avail.

At this point, since I have changed out the video driver, the motherboard drivers, and DirectX, all without any detectable amelioration or solution of this problem, I'm beginning to think that the problem lies in one of the Windows Updates files that those "helpful" people at the shop put in. Unfortunately, I have not the first idea as to which one it might be, or even if there are any Windows Updates for Win98SE that directly impact the video/graphics system. This problem is especially frustrating because, now that I've gotten back to my old driver setup, everything is working properly again - everything except for video capture/recording. Does _anyone_ have any ideas or suggestions? In fact, does anyone have any ideas for alternate hardware I might try? (Not the ATI TV-Wonder, please. I tried that last month and I couldn't even get the drivers to install properly.)

-Joe-

[Sylvander]

I don’t know enough to go into detail on this, but how’s this for an idea?

Were you supplied with a driver disk for the new motherboard?
When the technicians fitted your new board they should have run Windows Setup to repair the installation so the files match the new hardware. The set of files making up “C:\Windows\System\VMM32.VXD” would need to be changed to suit the new board.
Perhaps they didn’t do it or it went horribly wrong.

THE FIX
If you have a backup of the C: drive taken shortly before the board was changed then:
Restore the backup, then without allowing Windows to boot, run “Setup.exe” to repair the installation.
The new board will be detected and Setup will attempt to replace some of the files that make up VMM32.VXD with new copies that match your board.
The problem is that since the board didn’t exist when the O/S was made, then the up-to-date files needed for the board will not be included on the Windows disk, which is where your motherboard’s driver disk should come in. [I don’t know how this part should be done].
This would restore the software as it was when it worked and the Windows repair etc would hopefully make the changes necessary to match the new board.

If you don’t have a backup, then you would need to reformat the C: drive and re-install Windows and re-build your software installation.
It would help if you could back up important data so you can restore them after the re-installation of Windows.

The important part is to figure out, is what software changes are required by the fitting of a new motherboard. I’ve never done it so I only have a vague idea.
Perhaps you should contact the technical help section of your motherboard manufacturer.
I have contacted such a department in the past and found them VERY helpful.

[joea64]

The main problem here, as I see it, is that the motherboard driver CD has the wrong (that is, too recent) version of the VIA 4-in-1 drivers. You might have missed that part of my original post, so I'll restate: the most recent version of VIA's 4-in-1 drivers that is optimized for Windows 9x is 4.35v. The version on the driver CD is 4.43, which is more suitable for 2000/XP.

Aside from that, though, I do have a backup (on a different drive) that is recent enough to serve. Problem is, the only way I can copy that over is via xcopy32 or Data Lifeguard (since my current HD is a Western Digital Unit). However, I _have_ been considering the possibility of doing a repair-style install over the current installation to try to fix the base files; if the vmm32.vxd files are the ones at issue, that is a possibility. Another possibility is to try to rebuild the vmm32.vxd file independently and reinstall that file. I know that it can be done, but it's a somewhat complicated and time-consuming process and I would have to Google for the right way to do it.

In point of fact, I have already, in a sense, done a fresh install of Windows; I have a new HD on which I did a clean install of Win98 on Monday and then put the AVerTV drivers and application and PowerVCR II on. While I haven't done a _real_ test of either application yet, they seem to work OK. My problem here, and I admit it's mostly psychological, is that _everything_ else on the HD that's currently installed in my system is working fine, and I have a hard time making the conceptual leap to do something as drastic and time-consuming as rebuilding my whole software installation, including the REALLY difficult part - recovering all the passwords and logins I've built up over two years - simply to get video capture working again. There's a big part of me that says I should simply just swap out hard drives when I want to do video capture...

-Joe-

[Sylvander]

I’d have thought that the latest 4 in 1 drivers would be backward compatible!

Why not use Western Digital’s software to copy the “backup” [I’m not sure what form it’s in] from the old to the new HDD? Is there a problem with that?

I think a repair just checks out the installation to see all is as it should be. It will, of course, detect that the hardware is now different and does not match the installation, so it will make the necessary changes to the Windows installation. It will change any files that are not appropriate for the new hardware, installing the correct files [if it can]. It may not have the correct files and so the initialisation of the hardware would fail. You’re then expected to switch off, then switch back on and select “safe recovery” and it by-passes that item of hardware. The problem then is if the item is vital and the PC could not possibly work without it. That’s where the advice of the motherboard manufacturer would help.

You lost me on not wanting to do a software rebuild.
If this is a new empty HDD, with a new install of Windows, then you only have on it what you have installed and you are either going to be forced to install anew or try to recover some settings etc from a backup or whatever. Are you hoping to recover them from the old HDD?
If so you could fit the old HDD as a slave and copy and paste any data over to the new drive.
But as you say, that’s a daunting exercise.
That’s why I’d be inclined to copy the contents of the old HDD over to the new using WDC utility software and then repair the Windows installation.
All the old software and configuration settings would be intact [and all your data files] and if the repair was successful you’d be smiling.

Think how easy this would be if you had a backup system in place and could easily restore your C: drive and were practised at doing it.
This is made even easier if you keep most data off the C: drive and only keep Windows and the Program files [plus some odds] on there.

[joea64]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sylvander
I’d have thought that the latest 4 in 1 drivers would be backward compatible!

You'd think so, but there's very extensive documentation over on the VIA support forums to the effect that if you have a Win9x system, you're better off using version 4.35, because later versions are optimized for XP/2000 and numerous 9x users have reported various problems from using the most recent drivers. I think the same kind of bad synergy is in action here with ATI's drivers, which is why I had to back out ot an older version of DirectX 8.1; apart from the security problems with 9.0a, the drivers I wanted to use (from the install CD, optimized particularly for that card, not the more generic Catalyst drivers) weren't "signed" for compatibility with 9.0a.

Why not use Western Digital’s software to copy the “backup” [I’m not sure what form it’s in] from the old to the new HDD? Is there a problem with that?

No problem, really, though I might have misunderstood you somewhat. See, I did a restore from the other hard drive with Data Lifeguard (this is really a straight drive-to-drive copy so that the new drive is made bootable) just last week because of a problem with MSN Messenger screwing up my other Net applications (but I won't get into that here, mostly because I'm still not sure what's happening and that problem seems to have resolved itself now that Messenger 6 is installed) and I've already changed various drivers as I mentioned in my first message, and installed additional software as well. I thought you were telling me that I would have to go back and do the restore/copy all over again before I tried to do a repair reinstallation of Windows.

I think a repair just checks out the installation to see all is as it should be. It will, of course, detect that the hardware is now different and does not match the installation, so it will make the necessary changes to the Windows installation. It will change any files that are not appropriate for the new hardware, installing the correct files [if it can]. It may not have the correct files and so the initialisation of the hardware would fail. You’re then expected to switch off, then switch back on and select “safe recovery” and it by-passes that item of hardware. The problem then is if the item is vital and the PC could not possibly work without it. That’s where the advice of the motherboard manufacturer would help.

You lost me on not wanting to do a software rebuild.
If this is a new empty HDD, with a new install of Windows, then you only have on it what you have installed and you are either going to be forced to install anew or try to recover some settings etc from a backup or whatever.

No, I have two HD's in play. First, there's the "old" one (actually, this itself is a relatively new one that I bought right after I had the motherboard replaced, to which I restored my system from the aforementioned backup/older installation), and then there's the "new" HD, which I bought just last week and which has the new clean Win98 install.

Now, as it happens, I made yet another backup/copy of my most current iteration of my Windows install to yet _another_ surplus HD I have on hand on Thursday night, just before I used DirectX Eradicator to wipe DX 9.0a off my system and put DX 8.1 back on, so I do have a recent drive copy to fall back on if a "repair" reinstallation goes wrong. So I'll take that under consideration as one solution - though you'll excuse me, I hope, if I also hope I can find a solution that doesn't turn out to be quite that drastic. :) And after all, of course, I could just do what I mentioned earlier and swap HD's out when I need to do video capture. A little cumbersome, maybe, but these days it only takes about two minutes to complete the operation.

-Joe-

[joea64]

*sigh* I _knew_ there was a critical piece of information that I had left out - that's what you get for trying to post with a skinful of beer. The fact of the matter is, the backup that I've been talking about _is_ the backup with all the changed drivers, Windows Updates, et cetera. During the process of replacing the motherboard, it was discovered that the base OS on the HD I had been using at the time was damaged beyond repair; it wouldn't boot properly to Windows without some kind of freeze or BSOD. So I brought over the HD with the backup, and the computer-store people made all those changes on it when they put it into my system. I have yet a third HD with an existing Win98 installation, but it was taken out of my system in December 2001 so it's going to require a _lot_ of work to get back in its proper software configuration.

Confusing enough for you yet? :) I'm really beginning to think I should just swap out HD's when I need to do video capture/recording, after all.

-Joe-

[Sylvander]

Ah, yes, posting with a skinful of beer. I know what you mean.
I’ve just read your addition, but the questions are still relevant I think.

Sounds like you have things under control and have your various options planned out.

I feel it’s a little risky for me to jump into a situation like this.
I try to comprehend exactly what it is you are saying and understand all the little twists and turns, but I fear my understanding is not 100%.
See if I’ve got it right.

1. You had an original HDD [call it No 1].
2. Then when you had the motherboard replaced you also got a new HDD [call it No 2].
Did the technicians transfer the software from HDD1 to HDD2, then make all the changes you mentioned?
3. Did you then re-format HDD2 and re-copy the contents of HDD1 to it?
Then did you get a third HDD [call it No 3], arrange a dual boot setup and do a clean install of Windows 98?
4. Then you made yet ANOTHER backup copy; but of what? Was it the new, clean Windows installation on HDD3?
5. Which drive copy would you fall back on?
6. Why is that a drastic solution? [Forgive me, I’m struggling to follow it all.]
7. When you swap out HDD’s to do video capture, which drive has it working and which doesn’t?
That seems like being forced to accept the unacceptable.

[joea64]

OK, here it is:

1) I had the original motherboard and the original HDD (HDD number 1). The OS data on HDD #1 got corrupted (I think) during the time in mid-July (I posted about this elsewhere, there's a big long thread about it) when I was experiencing BSOD's seemingly about every ten minutes.

2) I took my system in, and also brought in a HDD with a working Win98 install (HDD #2) that I had replaced with HDD #1 in January. This is the HDD that the computer-store people used to get my system going again, and also the HDD that they added Windows Updates, new video drivers, new mobo drivers, and DX 9.0a onto.

3) You will understand that, at the time when I got the computer back, I didn't think anything was going to go wrong.

4) The next day, I bought a new HDD (HDD #3) to which I transferred the contents of HDD #2 with Data Lifeguard and also recovered data from HDD #1 (HDD #1's OS is damaged, but the data on it is OK).

5) I've been using HDD #3 ever since, though I've had to do several more copies from HDD #2, mostly due to various mistakes I've made (for instance, one time I told Norton Antivirus to repair the boot record after a drive-to-drive copy when it told me that the boot record had been changed, and it went and made the drive unbootable instead- and YES, I know now that that's a normal message when a whole drive has been copied over; and another time, I tried to change the video drivers and for some reason none of the Radeon drivers I had on hand would install properly, leaving me stuck at 640 x 480 x 256 - I finally got that figured out, as you can see from my thread elsewhere on Multimedia). To make a long story short, HDD #3 has been my default HD since 7/25/03, with HDD #2 as my backup HD.

6) So, I finally got to the point last week where I started to think that the best thing to do was simply to do a whole new install of Windows, and I got yet another HDD (HDD #4), and did a fresh install on Monday (it's so minimal I haven't even installed the printer, scanner or network card drivers yet), and plugged in the video capture drivers and applications. While I haven't really tested that install yet, I _think_ they work OK, because the video picture comes up immediately when the applications are started, the way it's supposed to.

7) And this week, I finally figured out how to change the video drivers,
4-in-1 drivers, and DirectX without messing up my system, and by Thursday night I'd gotten it all done. So, at this point, driver-wise I'm back to the status quo ante bellum , where I'd been working just fine since January (when I put the Radeon 9000 into the system). And everything seems to be working properly now on HDD #3 - everything, that is, except TV tuning and video recording. That's why reformat/reinstall would be so drastic, because for the first time in over a month (with the glaring exception of vidcaps) I'm finally satisfied with the state of my system as it stands.

8) So, right now, since nobody else has weighed in on this discussion, I seem to have two options:

a) take my Win98 install CD and do a "repair" installation on HDD #3, as you suggested;
b) or use HDD #4 and bring it back up to more or less where I was by trying to copy everything over and re-installing everything, now that the base OS is in place;
c) or throw the whole thing in the trash and take up crocheting antimacassars instead.

-Joe-

[Whyzman]

My 2 cents...:rolleyes:

I'm a bit "pretzeled" mentally right now reading through the thread and trying to get a handle on what has and has not been done! :(

The one item that keeps eluding me is whether or not you, or the shop, did a fresh installation of your OS following the introduction of your new Motherboard?

If this was not done, I'm thinking you're situation is much like trying to collect golf balls on a driving range with a target on your back! :D I have no idea where that metaphor came from but the visual sure does conjure up an interesting picture...

We've had some recent discussions regarding introduction of a new MB with an "established" OS and I'm still quite uneasy with the whole concept. Since an OS conforms itself around each MB like "shrink-wrap" my personal opinion is that trying to extricate one and slip in an entirely different new one is fraught with difficulties.

I'm reminded of one of our IT professional regulars here, iisbob, who always recommends a fresh install of any OS versus simply upgrading. I think his words were something to the effect that, "There's always going to be bugs!"

As mjc has said, "Your registry is the like the junk drawer in your kitchen!" It appears you've been depositing things in your junk drawer for quite some time and it probably needs to be dumped out rather than attempting to dig through and find stuff you need...

I would say give yourself a clean shot at this and fresh install your OS...

(edit) looks like you've done that with point 6) of your last post...I'd go with that HDD! ;)

[Sylvander]

O.K., I think I’ve got it!

HDD1
Was partner to your original motherboard & the O/S got corrupted.

HDD2
Had a working Win98 installation; new M/B was fitted; techs updated the O/S & drivers.
This is your backup HDD. Had problems.

HDD3
(HDD2 --> HDD3) + (data from HDD1)
This is the default since 25th July 2003; working ok except TV tuning & video recording.

HDD4
New install of Win98 seems ok.

You’ve metaphorically got both sides of the street covered. If you’re lucky, both will succeed. Surely at least one strategy will work.

[joea64]

After basically going around and around on the problem for a month and a half, I finally decided that the real answer to my video-capture problem is to set up a whole new system dedicated specifically to digital video (MPEG recording and DVD authoring/recording). To that end, yesterday I purchased a barebones system based on an AMD Athlon XP 1800+ mounted on an ECS K7S5A Pro mobo (SiS 735 chipset). I have 256MB PC133 SDRAM mounted right now, but plan to upgrade to 512MB DDR (preferably Crucial) as soon as I can afford it, which might be sooner than I think; RAM prices have gone down again though you wouldn't know it from visiting Best Buy. I'm using my new 80GB HD, my DVD burner (I replaced that drive on my main system with my LiteOn 52X CD-R/RW burner), and my spare monitor, which helps reduce costs.

I did a fresh Win98SE install this morning, then installed a Hauppauge WinTV Go PCI video capture card (I still have the AVerTV PCI card in my main system, though I may pull it soon now that I have a dedicated DV station in operation) and PowerVCR II; I also installed MedioStream NeoDVDPlus4, though I haven't actually tested it yet, that will probably need to wait until I upgrade the RAM. The Hauppauge WDM drivers (version 3.31) work properly on the DV workstation, which means that PowerVCR II is also now working correctly, so I've spent most of the last few hours recording MPEG clips. Transferring data between the DV workstation and my main computer is going to be the sticking point. Both systems have Ethernet ports, but my main system's Ethernet port is already occupied by the input from the cable modem and I don't (yet, anyway) have a router. In consequence, I'm looking at networking via USB but can't find (yet, anyway) a male-male (A-A) USB cable longer than 10 feet, and the DV station is at least twice that distance from my main system. I'll post more about that in a different forum.

-Joe-