Future of programming ?

[jeeza]

I am right now getting a little initiation into JavaScript, and understand now why it is known as an a 'object-oriented' programming language : it recognizes and can do things with 'objects' like 'window', 'navigator', document'.
This makes it of course incredibly easy on the programmer ; just compare with earlier programming languages where this approach was not known. Now, a word like 'window' can be used in a command in order to make your code handle your browser windows.
While reflecting a bit about this, it occurred to me that if there is a need for programming languages which are able to recognize and handle certain 'objects' in this way, I thought it may very well be that in a not too far future, there will be a kind of global, all-inclusive programming language which will supersede most others (how many are there right now ? Hundreds - each one with a specific use ?) - in a similar way as XML is doing with HTML - giving the possibility to the programmer of using in his code any object he might need and care to think of.
A sort of very flexible, dynamic programming language, much more so than what it known today as such.
I believe if this still doesn't exist, it should be invented.
But maybe it has been already ?
Your thoughts on this ?

(moderator : if this topic should be elsewhere, please feel free to move it - thanks.)

[Abbadon]

For starters: I know just about zilch about programming, just getting my first lessons as we speak (shhh! ;) )

Anyhow, here my bit on this: I doubt very much that such an allcompassing language will come to pass. I mean, to be able to do EVERYTHING with it, it would have to be rather complex (I guess) and for some applications, you just don't need this complexity. (not needing? Heck, it might even make things more dificult maybe)

Furthermore, say we have this language. I'll bet you some fine money it wouldn't take long for some enterprising enterpirse to put out a variant on it for certain specific uses ("'cause it's easyer!", also known as "we can make money of it"). Hence, two languages again, and I think we know how that game would play:

1 --> 2 --> 4 --> 8 --> 16 --> ...

in other words: bad karma. A bit like: "why not have one universal platform that can do all!", if that reasoning was valid, there would be just one OS out tehre, and now Windows, linux, OSX and whatnot...

I guess the One Language would still have to be adapted to new technologies and such, right:confused: ? But that wouldn't be much of a bother (guessing again here)

It would be cool though, and easy! Just one language to learn. Maybe we should all learn to program with just 0s and 1s :D

[pave_spectre]

Sounds more like your talking about Java not Javascript since so far as Im aware Javascript is still extremely limited by the fact that it must be fed through a browser and cannot be compiled as a stand-alone application the way Java can. I would hate to have to write any complex mission critical applications in JavaScript and then have to fire up a browser before I could do anything with it.

I also agrre with Abbadon, make a language too all-encompassing and you would end up needing masses of cade just to produce a minimal program.
I would hat to see the "Hello World!" program in such a language.

[saphalline]

I agree, too complex. As much from a hardware perspective as software, tho. I mean, just because every "computing" device is a bunch of transistors on a silicon wafer doesn't mean they're all designed the same. Some processors are specialized, and even the do-all CPU's vary as much in thier approach to number crunching as they do in the people who designed them.

Try as we might to separate the two, hardware & software intrinsicly rely on one another to get the job done.

[jeeza]

Originally posted by Abbadon
Anyhow, here my bit on this: I doubt very much that such an allcompassing language will come to pass. I mean, to be able to do EVERYTHING with it, it would have to be rather complex (I guess) and for some applications, you just don't need this complexity. (not needing? Heck, it might even make things more dificult maybe)

Furthermore, say we have this language. I'll bet you some fine money it wouldn't take long for some enterprising enterpirse to put out a variant on it for certain specific uses ("'cause it's easyer!", also known as "we can make money of it"). Hence, two languages again, and I think we know how that game would play:

1 --> 2 --> 4 --> 8 --> 16 --> ...
Not so fast, Ollie, errrh... :D, I mean Abbadon.
I didn't say "allencompassing". It will be encompassing a lot to be sure, but not everything, at least I don't think such a thing would be possible, and there will always be a number of programming languages for special uses I think. But this profusion of programming languages we have at the moment is probably just a stage in the evolution of IT which will sort itself out.
Just look at the beginnings of HTML and what has grown out of it - XML.
This kind of evolution I think may occur on a broader perspective.
Remember what I said about "objects' in JavaScript ? Well, this category of code elements will just have to be extended to a high degree in order for the programmer to be able to manipulate not only windows, browsers, etc. but just about anything he will need or could think about.
Don't forget, computers will certainly be able to handle many more things in the future. Right now there is the idea in some quarters of handling everyday household appliances through the internet.
Do you see what this will lead to ?
This might be not very desirable from a human or spiritual point of view or whatever, but I fear it will come to pass all the same...

It would be cool though, and easy! Just one language to learn. Maybe we should all learn to program with just 0s and 1s :D
Not one language, as I said above. But one extremely inclusive, all-purpose (or almost) language.
And programming with 0s and 1s, that's machine language and I think assembly programmers are already doing this.

[jeeza]

Originally posted by pave_spectre
Sounds more like your talking about Java not Javascript since so far as Im aware Javascript is still extremely limited by the fact that it must be fed through a browser and cannot be compiled as a stand-alone application the way Java can. I would hate to have to write any complex mission critical applications in JavaScript and then have to fire up a browser before I could do anything with it.

I also agrre with Abbadon, make a language too all-encompassing and you would end up needing masses of cade just to produce a minimal program.
I would hat to see the "Hello World!" program in such a language.
I may sound like I was talking about Java, but I was most definitely talking about JavaScript. Just take a look at "The Navigator Object",
http://www.iota-six.co.uk/javascript/12_navig.htm.
I suppose you are right in that JavaScript is limited in the way you are saying, but I am talking about the principle.
Of course, I know formally little about programming, probably much less than you do, but I don't think this kind of development is only limited to JavaScript.
Moreover, I don't think this would affect the quantity of code you would have to produce. I think it is rather the compiler, and other software handling the code, which will have to be very elaborate.
The "Hello World" program would not be any more complicated to code than it is now. But compiling it might take longer.
Just my opinions, of course.

[yawningdog]

A universal language would have to mean a universal set of libraries, and I don't see that happ'nin. Programs which are platform-independent must run inside a virtual machine, which slows them down. Programs which must be fast, must be compiled for a specific architecture. Unless programmers can get together on which platform is best (yeah, it could happen) I'm afraid its out of reach.

However, Python is pretty darn good and I haven't met a developer yet who doesn't like it.

[pave_spectre]

Python!!!!!!!!! OH YEAH!!:D

[jeeza]

This may be something approaching what I was talking about when I mentioned the possibility of a future near-universal programming language.
It's not a programming language proper, rather a next-step markup language but different from XML, but according to the author, "Expected are indepth experience with HTML and Perl, JavaScript or C-language, otherwise this tool isn't of much use for you".

Another Extensible Markup-Language (not XML)
written by René K. Müller
http://thelabs.com/ProgrammerHTML/

[jeeza]

Originally posted by yawningdog
A universal language would have to mean a universal set of libraries, and I don't see that happ'nin.^
I know of course what I meant with a "universal language", but I am sure I don't understand what you mean with a "universal set of libraries"... could you explain a bit ?

[yawningdog]

For example, the iostream library is used for every C++ program I've seen. But if you take a Unix iostream library and try to compile a windows program with it, it wont work.

Let's use motorcycles for an example. (I love motorcycles.) The GSXR 1000 (Suzuki) and the CBRR 1000 (Honda) are two bikes which are puposefully the same. ( That purpose being, win AMA and world superbike races.) However, parts from one will not fit the other.

The same goes for programs. Unreal tournament for linux probably uses several SDL_mixer libraries, but UT for windows probably uses DirectX libraries for (at least some of) the same functions.

Now that I've read my own post, I see that I've failed to clearly answer your question. Hopefully someone else can clarify further.

[CPU Trubble]

Originally posted by pave_spectre
Python!!!!!!!!! OH YEAH!!:D


Yeah, I've been tinkering with it too, and so far it seems great! I'm anxious to see how it handles more complex programs with fancy graphics and whatnot. There's some worries that it will be a bit too slow to execute the larger, more complex programs. I've been working with several different program languages thoughout my lifetime (I'm under 20) and so far, Python seems to be the easiest and most promising. It's way easier than any of the C's (but everything is), it's a higher level language than Fortran, it's powerful, good for sound and graphics, it comes with thousands of modules, and already has a larger, active community. If any of you haven't looked into Python, I suggest you give it a try. Python (I think it is the official site) (http://www.python.org/)

Oh, and as far as this universal language goes, I doubt it's happening any time soon. There are only so many words/symbols/etc. that you can use to assign to different commands. Each language is specialized so that they can shorten as many things as possible for the specified use (turn what would normally be 10 lines of code into one word/symbol/etc.). If they tried to make a language to do everything, it would either be too large, slow and compliacated (remembering the different words/symbols/etc.) to be efficient, or it would be too basic (not enough specific commands) to be efficient. I know it's probably hard to understand what I'm saying, someone please try to clarify my point if you get it :D, I'm a bit tired.

[pave_spectre]

handles more complex programs with fancy graphics and whatnot.
It can apparently handle them quite well, and there are supposed to be several good GUI building utils that integrate quite nicely with python though I cant remember what they are called. I have been staying purely with command line apps, and in fact I have only written one complete program (a noughts and crosses game :rolleyes: ).

Originally posted by CPU Trubble
There's some worries that it will be a bit too slow to execute the larger, more complex programs.
I think thats definite seeing as its interpreted rather than compiled, but I like its simplicity, and I even found its use of whitespace to be favourable though it did take a little getting used to since I am actually most familiar with programming in Pascal.

[CPU Trubble]

They do have ways to compile it though, despite the fact it's a scripting language. I've heard about them, yet I haven't gotten one yet.

The thing I like most about Python is the two interfaces, the shell and the windows for scripting. The shell makes testing out different ideas and commands a lot easier.