Cooling question

[gordon smithema]

I just built my first computer and I am running the following temperatures.
SYSTEM 35 C
CPU 47 C
PWM 38 C
All at idle

I checked the documentation that came with the processor, the Intel site and searched Google for solid numbers to compare mine with to determine if I'm high or not.

System specs
Antec Sonata case ( one 120MM fan, one fan Antec tru380 PS)
P4 2.8 GHZ 800 fsb
1 GB PC3200 crucial ram
120 GB seagate HD
Chaintech FX5200 128MB video (not a game player)

Antec has a fan only power connector (speed controlled by the Temp)
Switched to 12v continuous with no real impact
Added a slot fan (22 cfm) under video card)
Temp now
System 32 C
CPU 45.5 C
PWM 36 C

Tried case side off (Just to see the impact)
System 34 C
CPU 44 C
PWM 36 C

The Sonata case is supposed to be quiet but with 5 fans now running it is much louder than my Dell Dimension 8200 P4 1.8, 1 GB ram.

Can anyone provide ideal temp range numbers for the CPU or a good source of information.

I'm using the Intel provided heatsink and fan. If I am high is my only option a better cooler for the CPU?

[Jiggy]

Give this place a look see, http://www.overclockers.com/

[gordon smithema]

Jiggy

Enjoying the site you recommended
Thanks

[BigBlue66]

I believe the Sonata case comes standard with a spot for a 120mm intake fan in bottom front and one 120mm fan in high rear as exhaust?

When you say you have one 120mm fan, where is it located? The ideal location for it would be as rear exhaust. You say the case is running five fans now? I only count three. Where and what are the other two?

Even though there was not really a drastic change in temps, the fact that the CPU temp went down with the side panel removed is a good indication that airflow inside the case is not at its optimum. If it were my case, I would make use of both spots for those 120mm fans. In fact, I do in my own case.

However, your temps at idle are not too bad. I would be concerned if they reached 50C and beyond. But adding another fan, I assume as front intake, should help matters.

Another good idea is to use rounded IDE cables if you don't already and tucking wires up out of the way of airflow always helps, too.

[Whyzman]

Here's a poll I authored a while back...but it might give you some ideas

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20359&highlight=poll

One other item would be to consider lapping your heatsink...you can expect somewhere around a 3-5C drop in CPU temps...

http://overclockersclub.com/heatsinklappingguide.php

[cyber_surfer]

BigBlue66

I have the standard rear only 120MM fan at present.

The five fans are
Rear 120
CPU
Chipset fan
video card
22 cfm slot fan placed just under the video card

I'm going to look into your other suggestions regarding the front fan and rounded cables.

thanks

Whyzman

Checked the poll and I'm at the top of the bell curve.
Thanks for the link.

I did a better job of reading Microsoft's site and found my processor 2.8 GHZ 800 MHz has a 5 C min and a 75 C max. They also said the chassis temp should be under 38 C in one place and not exceed 40 C in another place in the same document.

I'm enjoying the read on Jiggy's link above. One of the two folks they paid $100 for an article has a very large copper radiator on the garage floor for water cooling his computer. He earned his $100 writing that article.

I've got some great ideas to try - Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond.
Gordon Smithema (old user name) cyber_surfer (new)

[Budfred]

Slot fans are not known for being really effective for cooling. You may want to focus on the case fan options and maybe even pull the slot fan. If you pull it, see if it made any difference in your temps...

[cyber_surfer]

Budfred

I'm sure you are right. I don't think the slot fan's impact is worth the noise. I threw it in with an amazon order for an Iogear MiniView Micro 2 port KVM switch, as a just in case I have heat issues purchase.

I highly recommend the KVM switch it really cleaned off my work area.

Anyone confused by my reference to Microsoft instead of Intel (earlier post), sorry it was late and I was tired.

[BigBlue66]

I have used those slot fans in the past with varying results. Now I have a whole bunch of them in the spare parts bin.

On one case, the rear slots were ordered in such a way that I could install a slot fan above the video card, inbetween the CPU area and the video card. I did find this to help with cooling as the slot fan was actually helping the rear exhaust fan to expel hot air from the CPU area of the case.

The following doesn't apply in your case at the moment, but I have found that when using a slot fan that's positioned lower in the case along with a bottom front intake fan, that the slot fan expelled the intake air coming in from the front fan, rather than letting that cool air raise up toward the CPU area, which is what you want. Computer case airflow is optimum when you have fresh air coming in at the bottom front and getting expelled at high rear of the case. Hot air rises so this is only common sense, and it's the same whether you're running an Intel or AMD CPU.

I use a combination of wire loom and mesh sleeving to not only make my wiring look better, but to tidy it up as well. I also use rounded IDE cables.

I highly recommend that you go for a 120mm fan in the bottom front of the case. Now here is where we get into the positive vs. negative air pressure debate. Some say it's better to have more air coming in than going out. Even Yoshi on TechTV mentioned that in a situation where the fans were of unequal cfm output, to use the higher cfm fan in the front as intake.

I disagree with him though. While it's good to have fresh air coming into the case, it's even better to have that air which will eventually heat up, expelled from the case in a hurry. Therefore, I try to run 60/40, exhaust/intake, and I enjoy extremely good cooling.

Room temperature is the biggest factor in CPU temps, but having a high quality heatsink/fan is also of great importance in cooling. I have used Thermalright products for several years and have always enjoyed good cooling.

But lately, I have been purchasing the Vantec Aeroflow. The design of this heatsink is extremely innovative and uses a TMD fan to boot. I'm getting very good cooling from these units, usually in the mid to high 30s C.

The Aeroflow is of high quality and in my experience does not need lapping. I have had to lap every Thermalright heatsink that I've bought. Although these sinks are about as flat as they can get, they do have machining marks that you can see and feel.

Cooling also depends to a great extent on your level of comfort with any particular temp. I find that I get nervous if my CPU is running over 40C, while others have no problem running over 50 or 60. Note: AMD and Intel state a maximum temp that their processors will withstand. However, you won't get to that temp before you start having system instability, whether it's spontaneous rebooting or locking up. Also, most newer motherboards can be programmed in the BIOS to shut down the system if the temp reaches a predetermined setting. The lowest I've seen on my systems is 70C, but again, I would most likely experience system instability before I even got to that temp.

If you want your temps in the 30s, adding the 120mm intake fan, cleaning up your cabling and wiring and purchasing the Vantec Aeroflow for the P4 is what I recommend. If you really want to improve temps, then I suggest cutting a blowhole in the top of the case. I and many others have found this to be very beneficial. Again, hot air rises so a top exhaust (blowhole) fan works wonders. And, it doesn't have to be of high cfm output. A low to medium cfm fan will work great.

Cheers.

[cyber_surfer]

BigBlue66

Thanks again for all the ideas to work on lowering my CPU temp.

I'm having trouble with the idea of making a whole in my new computer case (3 days working) but two weeks ago I didn't think I'd ever build a computer. I'll probably warm up to the idea and be carving holes everywhere, like in some of these articles I've just read.

Thanks Gordon

[cyber_surfer]

My first Abit IS7 was delivered with one of the two hold downs disconnected and the chipset thermal tape half on the chip and half on the heatsink. The second IS7 worked great for 8 days and it popped a hold down post off the board.
Now have an Asus P4P800 Deluxe in and running.

The IS7 used the stock Intel heatsink and fan (dry thermal pad). CPU temps ran 45-50 C.

The Asus board using the same heatsink and fan with Arctic Silver Compound runs 34-37 C and it is supposed to improve a few degrees in the first 200 hours. The chipset has no fan, just a heatsink and I have not reinstalled a slot fan I was running in the Abit setup.

Several people on the Abit forum reported much lower temps when moving to an asus board. Since I changed boards and changed to Arctic Silver I can't say for sure what made the most difference.

Just wanted to pass along how things worked out. Thanks again to all who offered ideas or links. It all helped me make progress in the right direction.