USB woes

[waggone]

My problem started after buying a Canon Poweshot A60 digital camera, a USB device. The computer works fine, except as noted later; the camera and utilites work fine except for one annoying problem...
After a successfull communications session (downloading pictures) between the camera and computer, via USB, after I disconnect camera (powering down first) from USB the mouse buttons no longer work (nothing happens when I click on something...anything) and I find that...
Msgsrv32 [Not Responding]
If I 'End Task' on Msgsrv32 the buttons start working again but the system is ultimately unstable and I need to reboot...something I've done maybe 300 times now trying to figure out how to get this problem to go away.

Here's what I'm working with...
Win98SE
Matsonic MS9317E motherboard, 1.4GHz P4, 256 Meg, SIS chipset, video, sound, USB etc. on mobo, modem in PCI slot, cd-rom...a basic system.

Background...
A while back my old mobo started acting crazy so I took the sick dog up to the local reseller and they installed the Matsonic for me. Everything seems to be working fine but I picked up on one little tiny bug...after the system goes to sleep and I wake it up with a mouse wiggle, the Desktop appears but there is no cursor. If I click away while moving the mouse, and eventually hit something, the cursor appears. Other than that little bugaboo, everything seems normal. This is all pre-camera.

What the vendors tell me...
Canon says that it is normal to be able to remove the camera from the USB without creating any system problems (I believe that) and that I have a motherboard, driver issue.
My reseller tells me that yes, you can remove a USB device from the Matsonic without the mouse buttons going dead. He doesn't know what Canon's problem is. I believe that, too.
Matsonic, so far, hasn't responded to my emails or trouble reports. Is this the missing link? I don't see anything on their site that is relevant to my problem.
Windows Update...I am up-to-date.

What I've done...
Been all through Device Manager, System Configuration Utility and have ripped the system down to bare bones and everything in between all to no avail.

A computer savvy (I think) friend says that...
Win98SE is not USB friendly. It has lots of problems. Get XP, that will fix it.

What do the pros think?

[pave_spectre]

Welcome to http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif forums.

When the new motherboard was installed were the old motherboard drivers removed beforehand and the new ones installed afterwards, or was the operating system reinstalled?
Are your USB drivers up to date?
Is the mouse USB or PS/2?
Were the drivers for the camera installed before or after the new motherboard?
Have you tried reinstalling the drivers for the mouse and camera?

I have used numerous USB devices in win98 without any hassle so that shouldnt be an issue.

[waggone]

Hello pave-spectre

The motherboard was installed by by local reseller who has been in business at least 15 yrs. They're not much on customer communications, only one of 'em speaks understandable english, but their prices are great. I beleive they are competent, if not extremely so.
It appears to me that the appropriate drivers are installed for the new motherboard. Sam, the english speaker and the boss, made sure he had my Windows CD before proceeding with the mobo change.
Are my USB drivers up to date?
I've been through Windows Update. If they weren't up tp date, wouldn't that tell me?
The mouse is PS/2.
The camera/drivers were installed after the new motherboard.
And yes, I have tried reinstalling the drivers for the mouse and camera.
And yes, I still have the problem...the mouse buttons go dead after disconnecting the camera from USB.
For my next move I'm contemplating buying a new hard drive and starting with fdisk...

[saphalline]

If the mouse is PS/2, this suggests something more... sinister. :eek: :p

I would start by checking if other mice have the same problem on your system. Try another PS/2 and USB if you can.

The USB drivers would be with your chipset drivers, and you have a SiS chipset? I personally think that's your problem right there. Not that SiS chipsets are bad, but their drivers stink. I would check and see if a BIOS update works and/or installing an older version of the chipset drivers. Sometimes newer versions can create problems for certain systems.

[Paul Komski]

No harm to try the Intel USB Check from USB Troubleshooter (http://www.zensupport.co.uk/ADSL/USB/default.asp?URL=troubleshooter) and a few other troubleshooting ideas as well.

[waggone]

Gee...
I'm getting help from 'round the world.
Really appreciate it folks.
Maybe some day I'll be able to help somebody with some problem.
Actually, I've already done it, If you have an old Apple,
Osborne or Kaypro or dos/win3.x with memory management problems.
Please don't ask any questions, I've forgot it all. I've devolved from a true hacker into a dumb end user.
Anyhow, I'm at about 500 reboots or so by now...still counting.
Managed to fix one problem, the disappearing cursor. Disabled all the ACPI/Power Management stuff in bios, that did it.
There's a lot of information there at USB Troubleshooter. I think I've been through it all to no avail. I have un-equipped/disabled/removed just about everything I can think of in bios and Device Manager and tried numerous different drivers...no effect on problem.
Matsonic does have a bios upgrade that addresses some unrelated problem. I haven't done it. I just don't buy into flashing a bios on a current production motherboard that doesn't address the issue at hand. As far as I know, if the flash doesn't go right, you are dead. Too risky. I need a real reason to do it.
I didn't know about safe mode and Device Manager. I have multiple entries all over the place. I whack 'em in safe mode but after I boot normal they all re-appear. What does that mean?
After messing around with this mobo for a while I've come to the realization that it has two 'root hubs' each of which supports three USB ports. Canon states that I should connect the camera directly to the computer's USB port and not through a hub for proper operation.
Hmmm...suppose I should disable on-board USB and buy a PCI/USB card?

[Paul Komski]

I whack 'em in safe mode but after I boot normal they all re-appearAre you whacking 'em in the right order? (http://www.zensupport.co.uk/ADSL/USB/default.asp?URL=t_clean). (A couple of the links at zensupport have the wrong IP addy; replacing 212.23.2.100 with 212.23.2.190 or the full zensupport domain name seems to work though).
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to the realization that it has two 'root hubs' each of which supports three USB portsThe reverse seems to be more "normal"; viz-> three root hubs each of them having two USB ports. You could try using usbview.exe which you can copy from the Win98 installation CDROM at tools\reskit\diagnose\usbview.exe to help you view the ports etc. Try with the camera both plugged in and not.
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Hmmm...suppose I should disable on-board USB and buy a PCI/USB card?Quite possibly. But the fact that you have a small unrelated PS/2 mouse problem ("but I picked up on one little tiny bug...after the system goes to sleep and I wake it up with a mouse wiggle, the Desktop appears but there is no cursor") makes one wonder if the mouse itself shouldn't be given the same attention as the USB issue.
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[waggone]

Thanks for all the info Paul.
Yes, I have whacked 'em in the right order.
And the wrong order, too

usbview.exe reports two root hubs each
with three USB ports.

I think I fixed the mouse problem (disappearing cursor) by disabling ACPI and Power Management in bios. I noticed something, though. When the buttons go dead so does the keyboard, except for CtrlAltDel. I don't know if that's new or has been there all along. I think the latter.

I've tried several different drivers for root
hub and USB. No change.

Could there be something in win/sys.ini or registry that could cause the problem?

Regards,
Pat

[Paul Komski]

According to the mobo specs (http://www.matsonic.com/ms9317e+series.htm) there are two back-panel ports and four more available from headers on the mobo. That still sounds like three hubs with two ports apiece to my way of thinking.

It is not uncommon to have problems connecting mobo usb headers to front panel ports - so I just wonder if these are connected and connected correctly; thus, whether removing the usb cables from the mobo pins for the front panel would be worth a shot. That should leave you with one functional controller and hub connected to two (rear panel) ports.

[waggone]

Paul,
I think you found your way to the MS9317E+
I have a plain old MS9317...no plus
I've been corresponding with Canon about the problem.
They tell me it's a motherboard/Matsonic/SiS problem.
I believe that. I've installed the camera/software on my brother's computer. It's a Dell running XP, no problem.
I think I have a bum motherboard.
Matsonic has not responded to any of my emails.
They list a bios upgrade on their site. But, near as I can tell, my bios is newer and has features not listed on their online pdf manual.
I guess I'll just live with it for a while, 'till I get another mobo.
Regards,
Pat

[Paleo Pete]

One thing that bothers me....

The motherboard was installed by by local reseller who has been in business at least 15 yrs. They're not much on customer communications, only one of 'em speaks understandable english, but their prices are great. I beleive they are competent, if not extremely so.
It appears to me that the appropriate drivers are installed for the new motherboard...

The possibility of duplicate or "ghost" motherboard drivers has already been raised, and this sounds a whole lot to me like the kind of thing that would cause. Are you positive the OS was reinstalled, on a CLEAN hard drive, and not just "over-installed" or by someone trying to remove everything from Device Manager and pressing on?

I think pave_spectre was on the right track in his first post, this sounds a lot to me like an OS that is confused as to which motherboard drivers to use. Both the mouse and USB problems point in that direction. Disabling ACPI probably freed up and IRQ for the mouse, which should already be on IRQ 12 all by itself. The mouse disappearing sounded a whole lot like the IRQ taken over by another item...that would be very possible if dual motherboard drivers are present, and BIOS needs another place to stick the second set...

Boot into Safe Mode and open Device Manager. See if System Timer, PCI Bus, System CMOS/Real time clock, Numeric data processor etc are listed twice. {IRQ holder for PCI steering is usually listed about 4 times if enabled.) USB root hub should be listed once for each USB header on the motherboard, and once for the onboard USB plugs.

More than that and you're dealing with ghost drivers, and I'm strongly leaning in that direction...

[waggone]

Well, I'm still working on the problem. Pulled an old computer out of the junk pile, retrieved an 2GB hard drive, fdisk, format, clean W98SE install, no unnecessary hardware and...same problem...mouse buttons and keyboard go dead. This is on the Matsonic M9317E mobo with SiS 650 chipset.
Back to the junk pile. Find a socket 7 Elpina mobo with AMD K6-333 with on board USB, game, com 1,2 LPT, sound, video. Older SiS chipset. Same problem. So it looks like a Canon or SiS problem. I need to dig up a non SiS mobo somewhere. I'm working on that...

[waggone]

Just in case anyone is still following this thread Saphalline hit the nail on the head. My brother runs a small business and he recently upgraded the computer system, retiring a number of older Pentiums which I retrieved from the junk pile. Here's the score: SiS zero for two; Dell, Intel, hp mobos, six for six. Hello SiS, you've got a problem. Next time I buy a mobo I'm going to do a little more homework. Thank you everyone for your input.
Best regards to all.
Pat