upgrade question

[E_G_Man]

Ok first of all let me say that this will be the first time I have started a post without a really bad problem (yay). I recently aquired a old compaq (leaves overclocking out :*() from a friend who didnt want it any more. In it was a celeron 700 proc. Now I want to put in a faster proc and give it to another friend for LAN parties but I dont want to spend a lot of money so Im realy not looking for a new motherboard. I despise celerons, but I was wondering if it would be better to buy a 1.3 celeron or a pentium 3 at about the 1.0 range. Even at that the pentium 3 is more and I was just wondering if I should save the money on the celeron (ack) or spend a little more on the p3. Again I only as this because this is definately not my primary machine and I was just curious of what your opinons may be.
Thanks

[Paleo Pete]

First, I'll be moving this to Buying and Upgrading, where it would fit in better.

Next, you'll most likely run into a couple of snags trying to upgrade. The main problem is the logo on the front that says "Compaq"...Not wanting to bash Compaq without reason or solid info, here's why:

CPU Speed- Most socket 370 boards use either jumpers or more likely a BIOS setting. Compaq's stripped down BIOS is very unlikely to have a setting to change CPU speed (I've never seen one). When booting, look for a blinking white cursor at top right, you have 5 seconds to press the F10 key to get into BIOS and see. That's also the place to disable onboard video.

Video- For gaming the video card is more important than CPU speed, the best video card you can get and plenty RAM will make more difference than CPU, and the 700 currently in it meets or exceeds system requirements of most games I'm aware of. With the Compaq, even if you disable onboard video, have an AGP slot, and remove the onboard from Device Manager, some Compaq's still refuse to use an add-on video card. If it's onboard video and has no AGP slot, you can just about forget upgrading to a gaming machine...

Again, try it and see before writing it off as a lost cause, it might work in spite of Compaq's efforts...

CPU speed revisited- IF you can get the machine to accept a higher speed CPU, (it's not impossible, just unlikely) the main difference between the Celeron and P-III is onboard cache. 256K for the Celeron, 512K for the P-III. This means better performance for the P-III but not a difference you'll notice, you'll only see it on benchmark results.

I have a 1GHz Celeron in this machine, I can't tell the difference between it and a 1.3GHz P-III with all identical hardware, RAM and OS. For gaming the extra onboard cache might make a difference, so if it were me I'd go with the 1GHz P-III just to be on the safe side.

All that said...don't give it up until you check it out and see. Nothing here is "carved in stone", you might find that you can manage the upgrade without problems. If the CPU upgrade won't work, chances are plenty RAM and a good video card will still allow the machine to still handle most games.

Rotsa ruck... :D

[E_G_Man]

First of all dont worry about bashing compaqs cause I dispise them (at least I have never seen a reliable one). The only reason I even have it is because it was givin to me free, and I like free. And I already have a video card ordered for it (radeon 9000) and I may keep the processor thats in it cause I dont really want to spend much money on this computer since I will never use it as long as I have my good computer. To be honest as long as it can run battlefield on the lowest settings Im good.
Thanks

[saphalline]

More info on the CPU...

There's some major differences in the higher speed Socket370 CPU's that will probably make upgrading that Celery 700 impossible.

The Celeron used the Coppermine core from about 500MHz to 1GHz, but only used the 66MHz FSB up to 766MHz. Starting with the 800, it used a 100MHz FSB (to get some more performance out of it and better use faster SDRAM). The really pathetic part is that it only had 128KB of L2 cache with the Coppermine core! Ugh!

The PIII Coppermine had 256KB of L2 cache and used 100MHz and 133MHz FSB's. Those two changes made the PIII much more powerful per clock speed over the Celeron.

Once these two CPU's hit 1GHz, it became apparent that the Coppermine core couldn't keep up. Thus the Tualatin core was born! *dramatic music* The Tualatin moved the micron process from 0.18 to 0.13 and doubled the L2 cache for both CPU's. The Celeron now had 256KB and the PIII had 512KB. The PIII saw no improvement with this besides faster clock speeds - the extra cache didn't help at those speeds. Notice the extra cache helps quite a bit in the modern 3GHz CPU's.

The Tualatin Celerons were/are perhaps the best value CPU Intel has ever produced. Hampered only by the mediocre 100MHz FSB, they enjoyed PIII-like performance with the higher speeds (up to 1.4GHz) and double cache. They also made pretty good overclockers I hear.

Sadly, the Celeron Tualatins didn't enjoy success. Although they were great CPU's, they had support and timing problems. First of all, mobo's had to be updated for the Tualatin core because the smaller micron process required less voltage and a new BIOS. The timing was bad because they were released after the P4! :eek: Since most of the attention was on the P4 (rightly so at that point) the Tualatins got lost in the shuffle. Not many mobo's were made with Tualatin support and by that time the Celeron name was already soiled.

Because of the differences in the late Celerons, and because of Compaq's reputation, I think the best you could do would be a Celeron 766MHz, or a PIII on a 100MHz FSB if you're lucky. :rolleyes:

Too bad that the only good Celeron was badly timed and overlooked. :( Fortunately, I managed to snag one for my parents' system, so I can steal it when they upgrade. :D