Just a rant

[StoneDragon]

Why in the !@#$%^&* don't new computers have a functioning power off switch anymore? When you're dealing with an OS that is (by the very fact that Microsoft has anything to do with it) prone to freezing and crashing, a power off switch is indespensable.

It's insulting to be reduced to crawling under your desk to yank the power chord out of the outlet just because windows decided to lock up tighter than a drum or having to hunt down a screwdriver with which to operate the not so available reset switch. The only thing more insulting is the "friendly" message windows now gives you when it forces you to do a scan disk because "You didn't shut down windows properly". Talk about treating people like children http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif They at least could offer the option of setting up a computer based on your level of intelligence. Maybe they could ask some pertinent questions as you are setting up your machine... "Can you read?" "Do you bother to read?" "If you're capable of reading, and you bother to read, do you actually understand what you read?" "Are you capable of making your own decisions, or do you have to ask your mother for permission?" "Are you capable of dressing yourself in the morning?"

Now, I realize that the masses probably need to be protected from their own stupidity, but somebody please tell me that there is a better reason than this for taking away the power off switch.

Oh well.... nevermind.

[bassvax]

I'm with you on this one. I'm not happy with these sites that push their systems with only components from "partners" thus limiting your real configuration options. Like Dell and others. While they do let you pick from their assorted list of options they don't really list specs of key items like the mobo. They could have options for the general consumer and have also the options for consumers that are interested in what their upgrade options are for later. Like being able to specify that I want an UDMA 100 controller interface etc. It's like they know what is in our minds or what is best for us. It makes a potential buyer shy away from a purchase. The same can be said of Microsoft in relation to all of the hidden option menus in their operating systems. I understand protecting the consumer from themselves to a point, but this can be done with appropriate warning messages. I know when I would see those messages a while back I would back out of what I was doing. This goes along with the power switch annoyance. I believe they feel they would be admitting to programming bugs by allowing us the option of a power switch. Oh well...just more ranting http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[Paleo Pete]

That's the thing I dislike the most about newer off-the-shelf machines. After unplugging my sister's Compaq about 30 times I finally had to pull it out of the corner and discovered it has a power switch on the back...Unmarked, of course. Not a word about it anywhere in the manuals, and Compaq's so-called "Tech Support" never said a word about it either. Check the back panel of your machine, you might have one there you don't know about.

Don't even get me started about Windows...My Win3.11 Packard Bell P-60 has been running non-stop for about 2 months, and has never locked up once, no illegal operation errors, no GPF's or any other trouble at all...the Win98 machine locks up and has to be shut down at least once a week. Never have been able to find out why...and of course since it's locked up tight, I get no error messages to give me a hint. That would be useless anyway, have you ever seen a Windows error message that resembled anything other than complete gibberish?

I think the main problem is the difference in Multitasking methods. Win3.11 uses Cooperative Multitasking, where the OS gives control to one application at a time, and other applications cannot run until it gives control back to Windows, while 95 and up use Preemptive Multitasking, where the OS gives control of the system to each application in turn for a specific period of time, whether it gives it back or not.

That's where the problems start. Windows gives control of resources to one application, while another is still trying to use it. That's where the lock-ups happen, and there's no way to stop it that I know of. [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[Del] won't work, so there's no way to shut down the application that's trying to override the one you're using...Go figure...

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[StoneDragon]

Heh heh... I'm better now. The comp is up and running beautifully http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

BTW Pete, I took a good look at the back of the case, and the only thing that even looks like it might be a power button is so inaccessable that I don't even want to think about what kind of tool I would have to own to use that one LOL

[mindhumm]

Paleo Pete,
I used to have the same problems running 98se. I tried MaxMem from AnalogX and have had great success. Perhaps it could help resolve your
Windows problem.
http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/system/maxmem.htm

[Walser]

A lot of new boxes have the multiple off buttons, but I hope not everyone is forgetting a simple form function of the ATX case. The power button on the front must be held down for five seconds, and then power-off will occur. Both bits of privileged information provide safeguards against secretaries turning off their machines when it can't up their 15th instance of IE 5.5 fast enough.

[Jerkymom]

StoneDragon, Paleo Pete, and bassvas: AMEN!!!!!!

The ATX case function mentioned is indeed a tad better than crawling under a desk to yank out a power cord, especially if you don't enjoy trying to fend off someone's hyperactive dog who thinks you're playing a new game and would like your face washed repeatedly with a friendly (and slobbery!) tongue while being scratched repeatedly with untrimmed toenails! Aaahhh, the joys of house calls... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif On a serious note, however, be careful using this feature with Compaq computers, especially those with the "sleep" button. Judging from personal experience and a number of posts on Compaq's forum, these buttons are prone to sticking down, rendering the PC "unwakeable" without direct intervention by authorized Compaq service centers, or so they tell you! This propensity appears frequently after the computer is no longer under warranty, necessitating a very expensive service call. In the past month alone I've been called for 3 such instances. The solution I've found is disabling all power management in the BIOS and Windows, then taking off the case and unplugging the cable from the motherboard to the sleep button. Luckily, Compaqs have that unmarked power switch on the back, because once the cable is unplugged, none of the case buttons are functional anymore. A small price to pay to avoid a hefty service fee, IMHO.

Oh well, I'm getting myself worked up on another rant - proprietary systems with inflated service fees and clueless tech personnel! Grrrrr!!! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif Time to get at least a couple hours of sack time to recharge my batteries... Good Night, All.

Kim

[This message has been edited by Jerkymom (edited 10-23-2000).]

[Rossgr]

Am I missing something? Most ATX Mobos have a hardware off function. Hold in the power button for 4 secs (seems like 4 min) and it will shut down. I have never seen Win98Se lock up so this doesn't work. Since it is a hardware function of the mobo it is OS indepentent.

[StoneDragon]

I found the "4 second" fix while poking around in my mobo manual this weekend. I also went in and shut off the power management stuff (recommended by many users for audio application), but luckily haven't had another call to find out if the switch will work if held for 4.

[ixl]

Most of the problems you guys are talking about are a result of the "soft power" feature of ATX. We no longer have actual hardware power switches that go to the power supply any more, unfortunately. The ATX design enables tricks like having the OS shut down the PC, but make things more difficult in other ways.
When I get a hangup I usually do a reset and then power off.

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[spondylolisthesis]

I've got an Abit BF6, and its BIOS allows a choice between instant off or "soft off" (i.e. switches off after 4 secs.).

It's an Award BIOS, and unless it's a unique to Abit feature, you might want to check out yours to see if that might be something you hadn't noticed before.

[Paleo Pete]

Walser and Rossgr: Thanks for pointing out the 4 or 5 second trick, I had forgotten about it. I found it in my sister's Compaq manual when I was trying to work on it, and learning to really hate proprietary machines AND Compaq. In the process I decided ATX cases sucked, and so did Compaq's tech support. I finally demanded they put a supervisor on the line, and I made him so mad he hung up on me! I just wish I had been in charge of the tech support department, any idiot who EVER argued with or hung up on any customer would be out the door before he got his hand off the phone! Actually this was GTE tech support, the people who cover Compaq's extended warranty. But Compaq was little better, I had to call them too and get them to remotely reinstall applications that the restore CD didn't replace, and they refused to reinstall one, that they said wasn't "supposed to be there". It was only included on Radio Shack models, which this one wasn't, but the guy was just barely this side of rude about it.

At any rate, before digging up a reference in the manual about the switch, I had to unplug the stupid thing at least a dozen times, since every time I tried to reinstall using the restore disk, it would lock up when we tried to shut down. And tech support never even mentioned the 5 second option! Or the switch on back of the case. I found both by accident.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now... D:

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If you had everything...Where would you put it?

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