For or Aganst open source

[DwnMp3]

Just wondering what you guys think.

[deddard]

for it - definitely.
I've not used linux yet, but I'm about to. I'm qualified as a CompTIA techie, and am studying my CCNA, C&G networking etc, but am giving serious consideration to the linux way, as many governments are now saying 'stuff microsoft' and trialling (sometimes on huge scales - China has ordered millions of open source systems) linux big time.

I know the big players will try to hide bits for themselves, but at the end of the day they can only copyright the front ends - open source is the way to go

[Budfred]

Unless your retirement is based on Microsoft stock, why would anyone be against open source?????

[karatekid3d]

Originally posted by Budfred
Unless your retirement is based on Microsoft stock, why would anyone be against open source?????

Exactly, the only reason I haven't forced myself to learn a lot of Linux based stuff is mostly the lack of software support. Once that changes good-bye Microsoft.

[mjc]

What a strange question.....

Are you for or against something that is ultimately rooted in choice and freedom?

I am firmly in the pro camp...

OpenSource is not about free software (free as in beer.....though much of the available software is that kind of free), it is about freedom; freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom of not being held in bondage by any one particular company. It is the ultimate colaborate effort. There is nothing in OpenSource that prevents making money from your efforts......it is definite check against unbridled greed, though.

As for Linux software support......I see nothing lacking there, I mean, come on a number of very popular games are even coming out in Linux versions. As for office type stuff......there is plenty around. And for webdevelopment, server apps, programming, etc Windows can't even come close to what is available.

[setoguro]

Definitely for! I'll also throw in an amen to what mjc said.

[pave_spectre]

Im for it, though I dont dislike closed source per se.

Closed standards, are slightly higher on my list of annoyances. Especially as they apply to data formats (this is a subtle dig at a certain corporation among other on my part).

[Paleo Pete]

Definitely for...

Free, stable, secure or mostly so, lots more installed than just the OS, not difficult to use, and not being dragged along through the same rut M$ has been perpetuating for several years of constant upgrades, updates, viruses, security nightmares, incompatibilities and of course, always handing ol' Bill more money...

To be fair, Open Source, (specifically Linux) is not bulletproof, not quick and painless to install, takes a bit of a learning curve to get accustomed to using, and viruses are out there as well as root kits...and it would probably be pretty tough to troubleshoot and repair, but I haven't had to do much of that yet (but just wait...see below)...come to think of it, how many repair questions have we seen in this forum??

Not that it doesn't have problems, I just tried Mandrake 9.2 and had no sound, modem wouldn't respond, printer wouldn't detect at all. Mandrake 8.1 handles all that during install with no problems. Haven't had the chance to set it back up and dig into the OS to see what might be happening, but probably will take another look soon, maybe reinstall and see how it goes. Sound is fixed, by the way.

However...the viruses basically get nowhere because they can't get root (Admin) access. They can affect a few systems here and there but don't see the kind of rampant proliferation Windows viruses do, since Windows systems allow system level access by default.

Root kits are designed to attempt to gain root or system level access remotely. If your security settings are too low, someone will get in. (Been there, done that, got the reinstall blues...)

Security vulnerabilities also exist, although not nearly as many as with Windows, and some are pretty serious.

Overall, lots better stability and security even with the problems mentioned above, and not yet as user friendly as Windows, but getting there. I'll probably be migrating to all Linux systems the next year or so, the more I use it the more I like it.

This machine has run for 3 months or more nonstop at times with no problems at all, only shut it down to move it...and I kept 4 desktops cluttered with a half dozen windows each for a month just to try and bog it down...3 web browsers, 2 IRC clients, 3 or 4 games, a couple of word processors, 3 or 4 system monitors, PDF viewer, couple of picture viwer/manipulator apps, CD Player, file manager...didn't even seem to slow it down...much less cause problems...

Plus, if you happen to be a programmer, you can customize it until it pukes or it's actually your own OS, give it a name and distribute it. Do that with Windows...I dare you...
Sure I'm in favor of open source, it's the only competition Microsoft has...

[pave_spectre]

Originally posted by Paleo Pete
you can customize it until it pukes

:eek: I'm not sure I would want to see that. Could be a job to clean up.:D

[pipejax]

you must be a fan of stallman's mjc. open source a fantastic example of people working ,and sometimes collaborating to create a better tool.

[jeeza]

Originally posted by Paleo Pete
However...the viruses basically get nowhere because they can't get root (Admin) access. They can affect a few systems here and there but don't see the kind of rampant proliferation Windows viruses do, since Windows systems allow system level access by default.
Can't that be changed by tbe user in some way ?
Very good post, Paleo Pete.

[sleddog]

Originally posted by karatekid3d


Exactly, the only reason I haven't forced myself to learn a lot of Linux based stuff is mostly the lack of software support. Once that changes good-bye Microsoft.

If everyone thought that way, who would provide Linux software support?

Think about it. :)

Linux (open source) software support is provided by either: (a) the developer(s) or (b) knowledgeable, experienced users. There is a huge amount of high-quality support available for open source software.

For examples:

Go to http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html (home for a cross-platform programmer's text editor), scroll to the bottom and subscribe to the mailing list for a week. Watch the traffic and see how the developer handles it... for free. No commercial text editor surpasses that.

Go to http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/index.php and watch the traffic for a week (it makes this board look positively quiet!) -- browse through the Networking or Security forums for a while, or the Newbie forum. The level of expertise there is extremely high.

These are just two examples.

To repeat myself, there is a huge amount of high-quality software support available for open source software. To claim differently is (in the words of my old university professor) so much donkey dust :)

[pave_spectre]

I'm in agreement with sleddog on this.

Originally posted by sleddog
Go to http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/index.php and watch the traffic for a week (it makes this board look positively quiet!) -- browse through the Networking or Security forums for a while, or the Newbie forum. The level of expertise there is extremely high.

And just compare the most users ever online statistic between there and here. 1479 against 53. Ok thats not going to happen every day but even if only a porion of that do happen to be online at any one time you can still expect that a significant number are going to be reasonably experienced with the OS and if they dont have the answer you can be certain someone will try and find it.

It was with the help of a linux forum that I was finally able to get my machine running linux with hardware that as it turns out, has a reputation for being linux unfriendly (the nforce2 chipset drivers can be a pain). I didnt even need to ask questions for that particular problem as doing a search provided me with more than enough information that could be adapted to my specific circumstances.:cool:

If thats not support I dont know what is.:)

And documentation? I now have more documentation than I could reasonably read in a lifetime. Not just readmes and official guides but how-tos written by users outlining problems they had and possible solutions.

[mjc]

/me slaps someone up side the head with an 80lb Linux manual...


(IRC slap line of mine)

I joke about it, but if you pronted all the available documentation it would definitely come in around that 80lb figure....there are 1000's of pages of documentation.....and that is what is included on the average install disk, not counting any online stuff.

[karatekid3d]

Perhaps I should rephrase, there is a lack of software support that fits my needs. I game a lot and so far the only popular game I know of that was publically released supporting linux was Unreal Tournament. I would love to lean the ins and outs of Linux but it is a huge change...something as simple as installing a driver in windows can potentially require a lot of work on a Linux based system.

For now, untill i have more free time, i'll stick to Windows with a little does of Knoppix on the side :)

[mjc]

http://www.tuxgames.com/index.cgi?referrer=linuxgames

[pave_spectre]

Originally posted by karatekid3d
something as simple as installing a driver in windows can potentially require a lot of work on a Linux based system.

Actually the only time I have had trouble with driver installation, has been with the nforce network drivers and it turned out all I needed to do after installing, was copy the correct file to the right location and everything was up and running. I just get a warning about a tainted kernel (http://www.tux.org/lkml/#s1-18). A large portion of current hardware is supported straight out of the box with all the major distros.

As for games Im not really a big gamer but those that are that I know of usually keep a small windows partition for that purpose though there big games ported to linux, UT2003, Return to Castle Wolfenstein etc.

[mjc]

MOH is or soon will be......

[Abbadon]

Originally posted by mjc
MOH is or soon will be......

Medal of Honor?

[pentachris]

Exactly. ;)

[deddard]

I've got a couple of weeks to go before my module one of CCNA, then I start playing with my lab (ok, 2 1/2 desktops, 1 laptop and a KVM + wireless network) and using various OSs, especially Linux, which I haven't touched before.

There seems to be plenty of documentation out there for the biggies such as red hat and SUSE, so I'll play with them for sure.

Anyone recommend a version which is gentle with newcomers?

[mjc]

Mandrake is fairly friendly.....

[DwnMp3]

First thanks for all the comments and the posts and wondering if any of you mind if I use your posts (with proper documentation, qoutes, biblogarphy in a paper I am doing on the difference of closed source and open source code). I would also like to add that i tried mandrake and I liked, just it did not like my modem.

[Budfred]

If you had said you wanted to use comments when you posted the original question I would have been okay with it, although I might have said something different. Since you are asking after the fact, I do not want my comments used.

[DwnMp3]

0_o sorry just read the accepted, not accepted theard. I wont use any of you guy's comments. Unless you say otherwise. My mistake.