lockups and boot failures

[jeyps]

Hi! This problem came up recently (about a week or so) on a computer I've had for just over a year.
The computer locks up frequently and sometimes does not boot at all. It runs WindowsXP on an Athlon1600. I haven't installed new hardware in 3 months and the last software I installed the week after Christmas. I may be imagining it, but also the fan noise seems to be unusually loud and throaty when it first turns on.
Before this started I didn't have problems with the computer locking up or failing to boot. Should I have posted this in the WindowsXP section instead?
Help, please! Thanks!

[slim]

Welcome to the pcguide forums jeyps

By what you have said I would guess at it being a power related problem, especially as you mention the problem with not starting up and the fan getting louder (I am assuming it is the PSU fan making the noise).

A power problem could account for the system lock ups (hard drive not working at the correct speed) and the system not starting sometimes (the psu not holding the correct charge).

Thats my thoughts anyway, I am sure someone else may have other ideas.

[Kumaiti]

I have a very similar problem.

If it is really a power supply problem, how to diagnostic it ?? Should try to change the power supply ??

[Paleo Pete]

Take the cover off and check the fans, especially the CPU fan and clean the dust out. Place a small fan so it can blow into the case and run it for a while, see if the problem goes away.

If you see the CPU fan spinning slow soon as you power up, shut down and replace it. Dust gets inside the fan itself and the fan gets both slow and noisy. Heat becomes a problem and if it isn't fixed you can fry the CPU. Fortunately a lot of newer hardware has a shut down temp that will simply shut the machine down before the CPU is fried...

If the power supply fan is dirty and running slow, you'll probably have to replace the power supply.

Also, what software did you install and have you checked it for spyware that could have been added along with it? That can cause lockups, but not often shutdowns...

[jeyps]

Ok, I haven't done a visual inspection yet. Will try these soon as my schedule allows. I installed Civilization III about 3 weeks ago. I haven't experienced any shutdowns, though. (But maybe some other people at home have, I'll ask.) So I'll try cleaning the dust out, and check the power supply voltages. Thanks for the help!

[jeyps]

Hello again!
I opened the case and it was really dusty inside. The CPU fan (I assume that's the one mounted on the heatsink that's on top of the motherboard) was also very dusty.
I tried turning the computer on to see if the CPU fan would have trouble starting up or spinning its blades. It started up fine, and I couldn't notice any difference in speed with the exhaust fan. But there was one thing noticeable, when I shut the power off, the CPU fan stopped almost immediately while the exhaust fan spun for a couple more seconds. Does this indicate a problem with the CPU fan?
I unscrewed it (CPU fan) to remove the dust (turns out the heatsink underneath was dusty too) and put it back. I repeated the above test and got the same behavior. I am also pretty sure that at least one of the fans is making louder noise than normal and that it is probably the CPU fan.
Do you guys think this is the problem? Or is it normal? Or is it a problem but not the one causing the symptoms I described in the first post?
I wasn't able to test the power supply voltages yet for lack of equipment. Also I haven't tested if the initial symptoms have gone away, wanted to make sure I wasn't slowly frying my hardware by doing so.
One more thing, after reviewing your posts, I saw the thing about the PSU fan, haven't checked that, either. Will read posts more carefully next time!
Thanks!

[Budfred]

You probably need to get a big can of canned air and blow all that dust out, particularly the dust in the heat sink, but all through the box. Dust can cause all sorts of problems with overheating being high on the list....

[Paleo Pete]

To be on the safe side I would replace the CPU fan. It should spin down for a few seconds, rather than stop immediately. Stopping fast the way you describe indicates that it has accumulated a lot of dust inside on the spindle, so the spindle and bearings are wearing more than normal, and it probably runs slower than normal although not slow enough to cause an alarm, if your motherboard has such alarms. If it's stopping quick, it definitely has dust in the spindle and is under a heavier than normal load just trying to move the fan blades.

That could easily be the source of the lockups, if the fan is not spinning at normal speed it is also not moving as much air as it needs, and the CPU is probably running hotter than it should. That could cause it not to boot as well, if it sometimes spins very slow or not at all, it only takes 10 seconds for contemporary CPUs to overheat. With a heatsink but little or no fan, maybe 20 seconds. Most computers take 2-2 1/2 minutes to boot.

If the entire machine is really dusty inside it could have a weak power supply as well, and if your video card and chipset have fans, check and clean those too.

[jeyps]

Thanks again! I feel more confident already, but no celebrations just yet... I'll get back as soon as I make the fixes.

[jeyps]

I cleaned the fans and the ugly noise is no more. Still experienced a lockup last night though, but now I am pretty sure it's the fan. I had the case open and I saw it slow down then start again. They aren't sold separately, though, so I'll just have to get a new sink and fan. Thanks again!

[Budfred]

You might want to double check that before you buy. Fans are usually just screwed into the heatsink and come in reasonably standard sizes, so they are usually replaceable....

[jeyps]

I was supposed to post some time ago that everything is fine and all, but unfortunately it's not. :( The fan/sink replacement is done, but now my power supply seems to have died. My pc worked fine for a few minutes after the change but the mouse was acting weird so I rebooted a few times. It was still acting weird so I kept rebooting (tsk tsk tsk...) later it had trouble booting (it kept rebooting by itself) so I turned the machine off. When I tried turning it on again it would just shut off after a few seconds. Now it doesn't respond at all to the power button. (sigh) Need help again, thanks. (I'm pretty sure replacing the fan/sink was correct, though.)

[Budfred]

The power supply may have been the problem from the beginning, although it could be any number of other things with those symptoms. Have you checked already to make sure that the capacitors on the motherboard are not bulging or leaking???

To find out about options for power supplies:

http://www.firingsquad.com/guides/power_supply/default.asp
http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/index.html

[gwallen4]

You did use thermal compound to attach the heatsink to CPU, right? I am assuming that the PC is dead - nothing happens when you switch it on. No fans turn, no lights, etc.

At this point you need to strip the machine down to barebones: Disconnect the data and power connections for all hard drives, CD/DVD drives, and the floppy drive. Remove all cards except your video card (LAN, modem, sound, etc.).

The idea here is to narrow the search for defective components. Try to boot using this minimum configuration. If you cannot boot, you have narrowed the search to PSU, MB, memory, CPU, or video. If you can boot, then add components back one at a time until you find the defective one.

[jeyps]

I'm pretty sure it was installed right (didn't do it myself) because I ran the temp monitor when I first booted up again and it was a steady 47 deg. C. I'll check the other stuff you guys mentioned. Thanks!