HDD(IDE) Cable?

[CoachB22]

Hi,
I'm back with another noob question :>)

I am upgrading MOBO, Processor, RAM, and HDD. Going from Shuttle Mobo, PII-300MHz, PC133, WD 2.3 GB -----> Epox Mobo, Athlon XP, PC2100, WD 80GB(8MB cache).
I had planned to use as much from the old box as possible. This includes the IDE cables. Will I need new IDE cables (80-connector vs. 40-connector)??
Thanks!
CoachB

[jabarnutcase]

Yes- I would use new 80 wire IDE cables. (Why scrimp on the cheap stuff?) ;)

Edit) OK...Just to clarify a little bit. :D
You will want a new 80 wire IDE cable for your new Hard drive (didn't it come with one?).
If you want to make use of the old cables for your Optical drive(s) (and of course your floppy drive cable) it probably wouldn't hurt as long as the cables are in good shape.
(Unless of course, you will have the new Hard drive on the same IDE channel as your CD drive)

[deddard]

Yes - the newer cables (80 conductors) can handle the faster transfer rates needed by today's HDDs - the extra 40 conductors just act as an earthing screen between the main conductors.
It's not worth bothering with the older ones - keep them in reserve somewhere just in case something a cable gets damaged and you need to swap them out as a temporary measure.

[CoachB22]

Thanks for your quick replies!
I DO have a follow-up question, hehe!
I would like to clear out the old 2.3 GB and use it for backup (Ghost image files). I've read that two devices on the same IDE cable run at the speed of the slower device (thus NEVER put the CD on the HDD cable...right?) My question is...If I make the new 80GB WD the Master and the old 2.3 GB WD the slave on the same IDE cable, Will both HDDs run at the speed of the slower drive???
If so how do I use the old HDD ( I have only two IDE slots on my board)??
CoachB

[Beta Geek]

Last I heard, that isn’t applicable anymore with newer technology, so you should have no problem connecting your old drive on the same cannel as your new one. However, I don’t remember the source of this, so can someone confirm this?

Also, your new mobo should come with 80-wire IDE cables and a floppy cable.

[CoachB22]

Beta Geek,
First, thanks for joining in!
I hope someone can confirm your thoughts. If device speed is no longer a concern, that would be one less thing I have to worry about. There is such a technology gap between the 2.3 GB and the 80GB HDDs that I worry about how they will interact. (The little one is 5400RPM w/512KB cache).

I bought my Mobo on Ebay so I received no cables or software. I've downloaded the manual and drivers. Since this is my first build I'm going with slightly dated (but proven) technology...Epox 8KHA+ mobo, 1600+ XP, Crucial PC2100 RAM, and my HDD "steal" from OfficeMax!!! It's kind of fun discovering things I need and places to get them. Needless to say, I'm learning bunches.

I will also be moving from Win95c to XP so I will have to deal with that leap also. I've seen a little of XP on other PCs and it looks powerful but friendly.

I'm roughly following the on-line build guide "MySuperPC.com" for 2002. And of course this excellent forum :>). My daughter commented tonight as I was looking at Windows tectbooks "Dad, your becoming a regular computer geek!"

She may be right!

CoachB

[Paleo Pete]

Well, I can't confirm or dispute whether newer IDE technology will perform at the slower drive speed or not, but how about this. If you only plan to have one CD ROM drive, why not put the second drive on the secondary IDE channel with it, jumpered as slave, and the performance hit won't be as noticable.

That would leave the new drive on an IDE channel by itself, with no CD or slower drive to hamper it, and the two slower drives on the other channel. The difference between the older 2.3GB drive and the CD drive won't be drastic to begin with. The only time it's noticable anyway is when you transfer a large file, several MB in size. Transfer a 30k picture file and you'll have to have a benchmark program to know it's transferring slower.

Yes, that means large backup files will be a bit slower, but I don't think the 2.3GB drive will work on an 80 conductor cable anyway, so that may be the only choice if you want to use it. (I'm not positive about that, it might work just fine. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.) The difference in a 10MB transfer shouldn't be more than 2-3 seconds, so we're not talking go make a sandwich while you wait...

[Budfred]

I have also read that the bit about the drives running at the speed of the slower drive is generally not true anymore. The main reason that it is usually better to avoid putting an optical drive on the same cable with a hard drive is that it gets to be tricky to thread the cables around each other. Otherwise it is fine.

The other thing to consider is doing this transition step by tedious step. If you make too many changes at one time and something goes wrong, you will take twice as long to figure out what the problem is. Another word of warning: I bought several motherboards and eBay and spent a couple of weeks trying to figure out what was wrong with one of my builds. I found out finally that I had bought a bad board and, by then, it is was too late to return it and get a good one under the terms of the crook who sold it to me.....

[CoachB22]

Thanks Paleo Pete!

I hadn't thought of putting the 2.3 GB on the same cable as the CD-ROM because of the previous "prohibition" of no CD on a Hard Drive cable.
Since I will be using the 2.3 GB for backups and stuff, speed won't really matter. I also won't have to buy but one 80 connector IDE cable. That will also leave a spot open for a "fast slave" if one should happen to come along at the right price :>)
You da Man!

CoachB

Budfred,

I hope this moboard doesn't turn out to be a DOA. Since I am gathering info and parts a little at a time, I will be way beyond any "return policy" that may have applied. I most likely will put the basic system together initially and get the kinks out before I try adding the 2.3 GB back in to the mix. I've also been reading some about OC'ing but that may be down the road a bit. I've read many of your posts (Paleo also) and feel you two are among the most trustworthy here. Thanks for giving me your thoughts!

[Budfred]

Fine point... it is 80 wire, not 80 connector. It has 40 connectors like the old cables, but it has more wires....

[Beta Geek]

You may want to get an XP 1700+ before attempting OC-ing because the 1600 doesn't give you much head room. By the time you're ready though, you may want to get an XP 2500+ and take it up to 3200 speed.

Oh, and don't feel bad about the 1600, that's what I have and it's still adequate for most typical apps. Sure it's not a speed demon anymore, but it'll be far ahead of your PII 300. I don't know how much RAM you're going with, but if it's less than 512, upgrade to that ASAP. With the XP 1600 512MB of PC2100, on an Asus AN78X-X mobo, my comp is still a very capable system. It loads Adobe Photoshop in 6 or 7 seconds flat!

Hope all goes well with your build. Be sure to post your success story here when it's all done! :)

[saphalline]

Hmmm... I missed this thread somehow... :p

No worries, mixing ATA speeds these days doesn't hurt anything. It might with a 40-wire 40-pin IDE cable, but even so modern hard drives are resilient. It has to do with the "mating" of different parts to get the whole ATA controller working, which is why ATA is so weird... but that's another story!

The only prohibition of CD & HDD on the same cable is if they are both the main drives. In your case, since that 2.3GB HDD will be your secondary hard drive, you can go ahead and put it on the same IDE cable as the CD drive, even if the CD drive is your main CD drive. The reason for the prohibition is that each IDE cable is shared, meaning that only one device can be active. So if you're installing a game CD onto the hard drive on the same cable, it will take twice as long vs drives on separate IDE cables. That can make quite a difference!

Thankfully, SATA does away with sharing controllers. :D

I wouldn't mind a 1600+. Granted I need more power for my main machine, but I still have this 1800+ sitting around waiting for the rest of the hardware to complete it. ;) A few more months and I'll have another system built around it...